Originally posted by johannesI'll get back to you, my fingers are tired, but it's all invisible and just as real and acts with some sense of intelligence and it's part of everything down to the subatomic particles and waves...In fact nothing looks as it really is, only what we perceive it to be.......Kinda hard to fathom, but it's true....I'm done for now.......lol
i would like to hear it and posibly learn from it.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
it is a PRODUCT of biochemistry and entropy management. however there is a differece between life and biochemistry. life COMPOSES of physical molecules/biochemistry, but that doesnt mean it IS biochemistry. if it were, wed only produce the behavioural CONSEQUENCE of a psuedo conciounce/awareness. however, were not just lifeless robots programmed to ACT like life, reguardless of the physical appearance of a will/conciounce, we do really feal/are aware, and because of that i think conciounce is a self contained virtual construct, having itself for both content and context, being different from its constituent physical parts and sumwhat ironically, having been born due to their supprt and also being affected by them. but what YOU are isnt just biochemicals.
this might be true but everything = "atoms" living moving three dimentional "things" called spirit. the perfect atom is "seven dimentional." it also "expose" the things the eye or senses cant see.
your senses are also spirit/atoms. i might not use the correct wording for i am not a scientist.
Originally posted by debbiejo
I'll get back to you, my fingers are tired, but it's all invisible and just as real and acts with some sense of intelligence and it's part of everything down to the subatomic particles and waves...In fact nothing looks as it really is, only what we perceive it to be.......Kinda hard to fathom, but it's true....I'm done for now.......lol
i am really looking forward to that. thank you verry much.
Originally posted by johannes
this might be true but everything = "atoms" living moving three dimentional "things" called spirit. the perfect atom is "seven dimentional." it also "expose" the things the eye or senses cant see.
your senses are also spirit/atoms. i might not use the correct wording for i am not a scientist.
How do you come to these conclusions?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, research into consciousness is inconclusive to this point. So we very well could be little more than robots who only seem to have some sort of transcendent awareness...in fact, that's probably the more likely scenario.So I won't tell you you're wrong. But I can say with certainty that your counter to shaky's comments on biochemistry is nothing but speculation, doubtless from some religious perspective that endorses them.
no, im an agnostic/atheist. i dont believe in any relegion, however ive thought about conciousness a lot and i think im sumwhat on the right track{and btw, VIRTUAL CONSTRUCT doesnt necessarily mean MYSTICAL contruct. it sorta like how 4th level computer languages based on C++ are programmed, seen and function on a more abstract, vague and superstricture level, very different from 0s and 1s which consist first generation languages. if you were to look at C++ languages form the point of view of 0s and 1s itl be practically impossible to see any underlying unity and progression to form a functional code, however even the highest level computer languages are all based on zeros and 1s which in turn are based on electrical pulses and their combination. now suppose, if the C++ based language evolved to such an extent, to COIL in on itself in terms of the linear content context relationships{which are progresseively coming form the initial integration of electrical pulses as thats the origin and sustainer of the entire language structure} and become self enclosed in a loop with itself being content and context,{and having the usual discepencies so it can chronologically change and evolve} then it would be a completely seperate construct than its constituent 0s and 1s or electrical pulses. i think the relationship between our conciounce and its physical constituents could POSSIBLY be sumthing like that or on those lines partially. i gave the analogy of the equation before. the equation is made up often, or ink, and paper molecules set up in an orderly way, but the equation ITSELF is completely different from its constituent ink/paper. you have to look at it from a certain perspective for it to be an equation. it is DEPENDANT on the molecules for expression and existance, but it isnt the MOLECULES THEMSELVES. the main problem is, why do WE ALWAYS{in my expirience} see/interpret our constituent dynamic molecules in such a way as to see/operate on a CONCIOUNCE level, why dont we just see them at leats at times, as a dynamic system of entropy?????? and i think you need a virtual function between physical constituent -conciousness to explain that.{thas sorta why i think even computers, designed the right way can have atleats, SELF AWARENESS. even if {including humans} it doesnt have FREE WILL. often times people take it as synonomous but it isnt to me, they are 2 different things.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you come to these conclusions?
isnt this a logical conclusion??
what is spirit? we claim that God is in everything and we know atoms are but we keep on searching for something right under our noses.
God has two sides; avisible side with Satan as God of the visible things and as God of all mortals.. mortals gave birth to him as spiritual husband. also he is the destroyer of mortals. he is a spirit created from perseption/out of earth/spirit of the visible but not an eternal spirit.
as long as you worship him as God you die, go to perdition untill you have knowledge about the tree of good and evil untill you can distinguish between the visible side and the invisible.
on the other hand we have the Quickening spirit to come as soon as we can distinguish. this is an eternal spirit and will change you into immortal life never to die again. this is the invisible side of God.
however you cant receive eternal life while you can only see aqnd worship the visible God.
mortals worship mortals and immortals worship immortal God's.
to summarize; you can only progress to imortallity by way of eating from the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is evil and then you will be able to ditinguish the body of God.
the script says; while you eat and drink the Lords supper you PROCLAIM him to be dead. the supper is a symbol of the tree of knowledge. jesus said; first worship the Son of man like a snake in the wilderness, meaning; first glorify the visible things. Why? so they can also receive spirit/life and become light/alive. in the future "heaven" everything visible will fuse together with heaven and will be one living being.
in this heaven you will only speak and what you say will be done. word/voice will be the highest athority/God John.1:1.
Originally posted by johannes
isnt this a logical conclusion??
what is spirit? we claim that God is in everything and we know atoms are but we keep on searching for something right under our noses.
God has two sides; avisible side with Satan as God of the visible things and as God of all mortals.. mortals gave birth to him as spiritual husband. also he is the destroyer of mortals. he is a spirit created from perseption/out of earth/spirit of the visible but not an eternal spirit.
as long as you worship him as God you die, go to perdition untill you have knowledge about the tree of good and evil untill you can distinguish between the visible side and the invisible.on the other hand we have the Quickening spirit to come as soon as we can distinguish. this is an eternal spirit and will change you into immortal life never to die again. this is the invisible side of God.
however you cant receive eternal life while you can only see aqnd worship the visible God.
mortals worship mortals and immortals worship immortal God's.
to summarize; you can only progress to imortallity by way of eating from the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is evil and then you will be able to ditinguish the body of God.
the script says; while you eat and drink the Lords supper you PROCLAIM him to be dead. the supper is a symbol of the tree of knowledge. jesus said; first worship the Son of man like a snake in the wilderness, meaning; first glorify the visible things. Why? so they can also receive spirit/life and become light/alive. in the future "heaven" everything visible will fuse together with heaven and will be one living being.
in this heaven you will only speak and what you say will be done. word/voice will be the highest athority/God John.1:1.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, im an agnostic/atheist. i dont believe in any relegion, however ive thought about conciousness a lot and i think im sumwhat on the right track{and btw, VIRTUAL CONSTRUCT doesnt necessarily mean MYSTICAL contruct. it sorta like how 4th level computer languages based on C++ are programmed, seen and function on a more abstract, vague and superstricture level, very different from 0s and 1s which consist first generation languages. if you were to look at C++ languages form the point of view of 0s and 1s itl be practically impossible to see any underlying unity and progression to form a functional code, however even the highest level computer languages are all based on zeros and 1s which in turn are based on electrical pulses and their combination. now suppose, if the C++ based language evolved to such an extent, to COIL in on itself in terms of the linear content context relationships{which are progresseively coming form the initial integration of electrical pulses as thats the origin and sustainer of the entire language structure} and become self enclosed in a loop with itself being content and context,{and having the usual discepencies so it can chronologically change and evolve} then it would be a completely seperate construct than its constituent 0s and 1s or electrical pulses. i think the relationship between our conciounce and its physical constituents could POSSIBLY be sumthing like that or on those lines partially. i gave the analogy of the equation before. the equation is made up often, or ink, and paper molecules set up in an orderly way, but the equation ITSELF is completely different from its constituent ink/paper. you have to look at it from a certain perspective for it to be an equation. it is DEPENDANT on the molecules for expression and existance, but it isnt the MOLECULES THEMSELVES. the main problem is, why do WE ALWAYS{in my expirience} see/interpret our constituent dynamic molecules in such a way as to see/operate on a CONCIOUNCE level, why dont we just see them at leats at times, as a dynamic system of entropy?????? and i think you need a virtual function between physical constituent -conciousness to explain that.{thas sorta why i think even computers, designed the right way can have atleats, SELF AWARENESS. even if {including humans} it doesnt have FREE WILL. often times people take it as synonomous but it isnt to me, they are 2 different things.
Paragraphs and proper punctuation help. Also, I can write some simple C++ and know a couple other programming languages, and even I could barely make sense of that rambling. And for non-programmers, my guess is that it made "0" sense (pun intended).
But to me, from what I could gather, it sounds like a very complicated way of outlining the basic tenets of Emergence Theory of Consciousness (which only took 4 words).
At this point I can't even remember how this applies to our original topic and point, so I won't try.
in a way. yes.
but the emergence theory has a tendency to explain things as an aspect of a process just like any other. only holding meaning because we see it from a certain perspective. although thats an underlying theme in the post, im saying it could change to a completely seperate construct then its constituents. so its not really identical about the emergence theory.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
in a way. yes.but the emergence theory has a tendency to explain things as an aspect of a process just like any other. only holding meaning because we see it from a certain perspective. although thats an underlying theme in the post, im saying it could change to a completely seperate construct then its constituents. so its not really identical about the emergence theory.
Ok, fair enough. In that sense, you're more of a dualist, thinking that consciouness arises from neural impulses, but becomes something "beyond" those impulses.
I just can't see something that is essentially immaterial (despite its material origins) affecting the material universe in any way. It would be the non-physical affecting the physical, which doesn't really make any rational sense. I'm a determinist, so I suppose I'm coming from a much different perspective than the majority of the population who has the notion of free will, who might embrace that theory a bit more.
But if consciousness does exist as a seperate entity, it's simply a by-product of physical reality imo, and can't actually have any causal, deterministic effect on reality.
I was also a seeker of the truth but couldent find it in “church”; intelligence tells you about so many lies. I’ll mention one; the bible says only man was in the garden in Eden and only man was driven out of this garden, while the “church” preaches that both was in the garden and both were driven out of the garden. Of-cause this is a lie!! But we preach the lie because we don’t understand the bible. I decided to study the bible for myself to find out; is it true or just a nice story. I have studied and meditatet on the bible for more than twenty years before I’ve voiced myself in the atmosphere.
We must remember; the human is a spiritual factory producing spirit all the time and this spirit is like rain, the water goes up and comes down in a rain. We can determine what the rain should be like by changing our beliefs.
I firstly want to say; church with all it fasets had to be and also a variety of beliefs. The next thing I want to say is; the bible actualy agrees that religion is a man made thing. Further the bible says that this whole thing about Jesus is only an imaginary thing that don’t realy exist. I want to explain something but in the least words possible for people don’t want to read long posts, because everybody has “already his church, his belief and his religion” and the most people read with the preprogrammed idea to reject it in anyway.
Let us start with the following; there was a previous universe, which was infertile, it could not create diversity, the female half/atoms was lifeless and in fact was slowly dying. This in fact meant that the whole universe woul eventually die. Previously the male and female atoms kept each other alive.
The bible says the wife/female told the husband/male that she is incapable of creating children. For this reason the big bang followed. The bible explains it that the visible dust floating in space were suck into a vacume like a huge tornado which eventiouly became top heavy and fell over from north to south and burst open in the midst of space.
This resulted into the forming of different planets etc as we see it today. By way of this explosion the male and female atoms fused together and became fertile to produce the life we know today. It started with alge and eventually led to the animal and to human. The bible is clear it was a prosess of evulution.
The problem was with the opening of the eye, human at this stage still more animal became aware of things around itself and a new soirit was born called Cain or Satan the evil one. Yealousy started, I think you can understand what else, hunting of each other etc.
It was a wild wild world. This evil spirit were created out of the visible, before there was eyes there were no fear, no yealousy and so forth.
But; why and what is the purpose of this cruel world? The purpose was to give the dying female her spirit back and to make her fertile to bear different “things”. The universe/God is still busy creating itself.
How did the female received life? By way of the creatures born on/from her, first grass then animal and eventually human. The only way to give something spirit is by way of worship. You might know for instance of people who worshipped the moon, the sun the mountains etc. the word Sunday comes from the worshippers of the sun and Monday from the moon worshippers. We don’t realize what impact these things have to change the universe.
The idea was to create spirit for the female half and when that is done the heaven and earth will fuse together as one living being according to the bible.
To create the human to do this worship, the first thing was to create the senses by way of the so-called commandments. Animals are co-creators of angels and spirit for instance a dog would co-create hearing for they are better equipped than human but you will enjou this in the next third heaven. The senses are in the first heaven while the soul, the spirit of imagination is the second heaven, where we are now.
The next thing to develop was the imagination. This was acoumplised by giving us the hypothesis of Jesus. He was the sixth and sevent and eight king according to the bible and everybody who follows him goes to perdition , the bible say. To go to perdition or to hell as church preach is realy a simple understanding; from the minute you are born you start to “burn in hell”, you get old and die and return to dust. We are in hell, God only mad two places, heaven and hell a phicical place were the soul suffers. The meaning of hell = a place where the soul suffers. The spirit of the visible = the soul of God. God have seven spirits of which six were created on earth, out of earth from the persetion, namely the five senses and the spirit of imagination.
These six spirits = Satan God of the visible, God of the mortals, mortals worship mortal things. Satan were created out of the visible by way of all creatures on earth and therefore He is God and still is your God.
An important or the most important thing was, to create a perfect body forGod/human. This was done by way of the Jesus project; we were given the hypothesis of a perfect person who loved us so much, he gave his life and we must worship/glorify this man. But this whole thing is just a picture of yourself, you in fact glorify a new body for yourself in the next life. We can say; Christian kissed the body of Jesus and muslem kissed earth and food to make that perfect and to give it life. There is amny more religions who played a big role to acoumplish this.
Imagination and the new body were created by way of the beast out of the earth; those of you who know the scriptures will know about this beast that came out of the earth and the bible says all humans followed this beast and said; he is God who can fight him etc.
This is a hypothesis of Jesus coming out of the grave/coming up out of the earth on the third human day. These things are all just imagination and didn’t really happen the way we preach it. The bible says this beast walked earth for 42 months, the time of Jesus’ preaching. The bible says; we followed this beast who had the sword wound and lived; Jesus received this sword wound on the cross, died and came up from the grave/out of the earth on the third day.
The bible says about this beast; it also made fire came from the heaven. Fire is the symbol of an earthly spirit and in piticular the so-called Holy Ghost according to Acts. Further the bible says; the beast that thou saw was, and is not, although he is. This then clearly says that this episode about Jesus was only an imaginary figure to create certain impotant things.
The important thing however is; by following this beast we created imagination, because we never saw this happening we only imagined it to be. Many of you will know what came from this imagination about Jesus from the church for instance, but also because of imagination we imagined to go to the moon and we did etc. however he does exist for those who believe/imagine him.
Why did we preach that Jesus died for all our sickness and pain etc? we have preaced that to call it into existence. The question however is; if he died for our sickness and pain, why do we have sickness and pain?
The answer is; you are this Jesus who came to earth and became flesh/in a fleshly body and it is in fact you who now suffer and die for pain and sickness and death. The bible says there were an election in heaven about this mission and you were the elected, you chose to come and die for your friends in “heaven” so everyone will have eternal life without sickness or death. There is no bigger love than this and you shoul all be proud of yourselves.
There is a lot more to say but I want to make it as short as possible.
For those whom are interested to read the full revelation, it is 300 pages, be warned can go to this addres;
http://www.johannes-erasmus.blogspot.com/ .
I would advice to read it from the beginnig otherwise you miht not understand it.
Originally posted by Storm
Gods share so many characteristics with humans that I would argue that gods were made in the image of man.
I agree with you 100%
Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Yahweh, Hindu Gods, etc. are all very human like, very passionate, very black/white.
We invented the concept of Gods, therefore we invented the Gods.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I agree with you 100%Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Yahweh, Hindu Gods, etc. are all very human like, very passionate, very black/white.
We invented the concept of Gods, therefore we invented the Gods.
Re: the image of God
Originally posted by johannes
what do you understand from the following verse?
Gen.1: 27; so god created man in his image, in his image created he him; male and female created he them.
This verse says; 1) god = male and female
2) You are also created to this same image; you are male and female in one body.
Question; which part of god = female?
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis 1:26
* words of God...
"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Genesis 1:27
* conclusion of the writer, Moses...
* who is the image of God, whom God was talking to in the Creation?
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
And he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
Colossians 1:15-17
* God's Son, Jesus Christ is His image... what image was God saying in Genesis 1:26?
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24
* God is a spirit, so God's image should not be flesh and blood... why Christ?
"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45
* Christ, the last Adam, is also a spirit...
* who is/are the man/men created by God after His image and likeness?
"And put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth."
Ephesians 4:24
Re: Re: the image of God
Originally posted by peejayd
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis 1:26* words of God...
"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Genesis 1:27* conclusion of the writer, Moses...
* who is the image of God, whom God was talking to in the Creation?
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
And he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
Colossians 1:15-17* God's Son, Jesus Christ is His image... what image was God saying in Genesis 1:26?
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24* God is a spirit, so God's image should not be flesh and blood... why Christ?
"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45* Christ, the last Adam, is also a spirit...
* who is/are the man/men created by God after His image and likeness?
"And put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth."
Ephesians 4:24
hi rock its nice to see you outside the wrestling ring!!!
your quote;[ God's Son, Jesus Christ is His image... what image was God saying in Genesis 1:26?]
you must now remember that jesus was the full image of god, namely male and female in one body.
look at this through another eye; your male half = your spirit and your female half = your flesh from mother earth.
your quote;[ The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45[/color][/i]
* Christ, the last Adam, is also a spirit...]
jesus as we "saw him and preach him" was a first Adam and not a second adam. he was flesh and blood and die a normal mortal death. however it is true that he became a second adam by way of you worshipping him.
jesus was baptized with the soul, the mental mind, the holy ghost. therefore he is in fact a first adam who received a soul by baptizm into death. johan.
Originally posted by johannes
hi rock its nice to see you outside the wrestling ring!!!
* thanks... 😛
Originally posted by johannes
you must now remember that jesus was the full image of god, namely male and female in one body.
* Christ is the image of God... the Bible never tell refers the image as "male and female in one body"... how can that be? Christ is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) ... invisible means cannot be seen...
Originally posted by johannes
look at this through another eye; your male half = your spirit and your female half = your flesh from mother earth.
* i got your point, however that was unBiblical, my friend...
Originally posted by johannes
jesus as we "saw him and preach him" was a first Adam
* the first Adam in I Corinthians 15:45 is the first human being God created... he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7)...
Originally posted by johannes
and not a second adam.
* Christ is the last Adam...
Originally posted by johannes
he was flesh and blood and die a normal mortal death. however it is true that he became a second adam by way of you worshipping him.
jesus was baptized with the soul, the mental mind, the holy ghost. therefore he is in fact a first adam who received a soul by baptizm into death. johan.
* please expound this point, where in the Bible that supports these ideas, my friend? 🙂
Originally posted by peejayd
* thanks... 😛* Christ is the image of God... the Bible never tell refers the image as "male and female in one body"... how can that be? Christ is the image of the [b]invisible
God (Colossians 1:15) ... invisible means cannot be seen...* i got your point, however that was unBiblical, my friend...
* the first Adam in I Corinthians 15:45 is the first human being God created... he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7)...
* Christ is the last Adam...
* please expound this point, where in the Bible that supports these ideas, my friend? 🙂 [/B]
the meaning of Holy Ghost = the mental mind, the rasional soul/mind.
further, the Holy Ghost is also the spirit of imagination, the sixth spirit. according to the bible God have seven spirits of which six were born on earth.
according to 1Cort. the second Adam will have the quickening spirit, while Jesus received the sixth spirit, the soul an for this reason he could not have been the last Adam.
jesus was baptized in the jordan river which has the meaning of; river of death, to cast down etc. the bible is clear that we were also baptized into his death. therefore we can call the Hly Ghost the spirit of the dead as the word Ghost explains.