An atheist speech.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, people in that "community"...

I'd like to count myself as one of those too, now I don't participate in natural sciences, I study mathematics at the moment and do want to be a mathematician in the future. Not sure if you guys accept that in your little club (can I send an application?). But you are right, in the way that I can't really see, living in a rather enlightened country, how scientists are viewed in the US (not sure if you can though)...and it might be harmful, I just think that for others he is a person that finally speaks what they believe, atheists usually have to shut up about their believes, at most they can say they are agnostic (which is reasonable, we all should be agnostics) but with people like Dawkins speaking out I think more atheists found and will hopefully find the strength to do the same. And imo, that is a good thing.

lol, there is a 6 page application available online. Please submit one with a resume, credit history and criminal background check.

There is also a $2000 entry fee that can be paid in the form of cheque made out to me, Emperor of Science.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, there is a 6 page application available online. Please submit one with a resume, credit history and criminal background check.

There is also a $2000 entry fee that can be paid in the form of cheque made out to me, Emperor of Science.

Im actually qualified to study a post-graduate in Cybernetics so I could qualify for that to. I have a degree in Computer Studies, not sure if im going to go for that just yet.

Just so theres no possibility of misunderstanding I know you're joking. Yeah you probably know that but you never know.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I really don't see the danger. And I did not deny that he is against Religion....he clearly is. He is just not a radical hater of everyone that has faith, that is certainly evident. He makes good points about Religion, that's evident too. And the way he gets shit from Alliance is not deserved in my opinion.

The reason he gets shit from me is the way he bastardizes science. I could easily dismiss him as just another hypocrite, but honestly sometimes I think he thinks he is the intellecutual savior of the world.

I agree withi most of his points, I've even adapted some for my own arguments, but as an "athiest" I'd never flat out deny that God exists and I'd never invoke science to support that claim.

Mix that in with his blatant disregard for politicla restraint and often common sense, he becomes a man that I really dislike. He further polarizes every issue inthe holy triumverate of science-religion-democracy...its exactly what we DON'T need in the current situation that science is in.

OrNow thats a really cool field.iginally posted by Alfheim
Cybernetics

Now thats a really cool field.

Originally posted by Alliance
The reason he gets shit from me is the way he bastardizes science. I could easily dismiss him as just another hypocrite, but honestly sometimes I think he thinks he is the intellecutual savior of the world.

I agree withi most of his points, I've even adapted some for my own arguments, but as an "athiest" I'd never flat out deny that God exists and I'd never invoke science to support that claim.

Mix that in with his blatant disregard for politicla restraint and often common sense, he becomes a man that I really dislike. He further polarizes every issue inthe holy triumverate of science-religion-democracy...its exactly what we DON'T need in the current situation that science is in.

Now thats a really cool field.

Oh well, with that I can agree partly. Seems much less aggressive towards him than earlier posts. I find myself being annoyed by him as well in some aspects...but I think that his approach is not necessarily the bad approach. I think in the long run science just has the incredible advantage of being right...

Science does have the advantage of being right, but if science ceases to become science by taking stances on the supernatural, it won't be right anymore.

You may feel that Dawkins is right in energizing the base, but thats exactly his problem (fundamentalism). If he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to change his ways. We don't need his "atheist lobby"... we need a global lobby to end fundamentalism and to change religion. Dividing religion and cutting atheism off form the global religious discussion will not aid that, especially if its led by a fundamentalist himself, no matter how intelligent his points occasionally are.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh well, with that I can agree partly. Seems much less aggressive towards him than earlier posts. I find myself being annoyed by him as well in some aspects...but I think that his approach is not necessarily the bad approach. I think in the long run science just has the incredible advantage of being right...

I will say this though eventhough you may not belive in magic or the supernatural, practices such as meditation can be applied to cybernetics.

For example theres this machine they created where you can control a ball if you able to relax your mind. Obvoulsy as cybernetics become more advanced the more advanced procedures you will be able to do with it and those individuals with a stronger mind will be more adept at cybernetics.

I know this seems a little far fetched but even if magic doesnt exist it wont matter. Hell they can create mice which can regrow limbs now! Within 20 years it will be very intersting to see how far science has progressed. The future is here!

Originally posted by Alfheim
I will say this though eventhough you may not belive in magic or the supernatural, practices such as meditation can be applied to cybernetics.

For example theres this machine they created where you can control a ball if you able to relax your mind. Obvoulsy as cybernetics become more advanced the more advanced procedures you will be able to do with it and those individuals with a stronger mind will be more adept at cybernetics.

I know this seems a little far fetched but even if magic doesnt exist it wont matter. Hell they can create mice which can regrow limbs now! Within 20 years it will be very intersting to see how far science has progressed. The future is here!

Well, even if magic in the traditional sense would exist, it would be a natural phenomenon and with that subject to science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqNueGGP_uE

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, even if magic in the traditional sense would exist, it would be a natural phenomenon and with that subject to science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqNueGGP_uE

Ok I will look at it later. I know a bit about Randi the intersting thing is ive never seen him investigate anything serious. Maybe he should try going to China or somewhere where people practice internal martial arts.

There have been expreiments where monks have survived in freezing cold temperatures, put wet towels on themselves and used their body heat to dry the towels.

Ive seen a Qi gong master suddenly lose his balance and be thrown across the room (not in the air, along the ground it was pretty fast).

Why is it all of a sudden when Randi investigest people there is nothing. He needs to stop ****ing with these New Age twats and investiage soemthing proper.

Its the samething with Derren Brown he tried to debunk the empty force. Instead of him actually going to a Qi gong master he went to a ****ing Wing Chun school where they dont even teach chi.

As far as imconcerned its not wether its real, its how real is it. Sure people can use their body heat to dry wet towels in freezing cold temperatures but does that mean you can be telekinetic?

At any rate my point is that regardless of what you believe there is evidence to indicate that religous practices are not without merit and can be apllied to science.

Worse case scenerio is that magic can be seen as a form of self hypnosis.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I will look at it later. I know a bit about Randi the intersting thing is ive never seen him investigate anything serious. Maybe he should try going to China or somewhere where people practice internal martial arts.

There have been expreiments where monks have survived in freezing cold temperatures, put wet towels on themselves and used their body heat to dry the towels.

Ive seen a Qi gong master suddenly lose his balance and be thrown across the room (not in the air, along the ground it was pretty fast).

Why is it all of a sudden when Randi investigest people there is nothing. He needs to stop ****ing with these New Age twats and investiage soemthing proper.

Its the samething with Derren Brown he tried to debunk the empty force. Instead of him actually going to a Qi gong master he went to a ****ing Wing Chun school where they dont even teach chi.

As far as imconcerned its not wether its real, its how real is it. Sure people can use their body heat to dry wet towels in freezing cold temperatures but does that mean you can be telekinetic?

At any rate my point is that regardless of what you believe there is evidence to indicate that religous practices are not without merit and can be apllied to science.

Worse case scenerio is that magic can be seen as a form of self hypnosis.

Well, I figure his quest is not so much to find something supernatural, but to debunk dominant superstitions in his culture.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I figure his quest is not so much to find something supernatural, but to debunk dominant superstitions in his culture.

.......meh.....not from what ive seen he seems to be trying to negate the existance of the supernatural.

Originally posted by Alfheim
.......meh.....not from what ive seen he seems to be trying to negate the existance of the supernatural.

Well, supernatural is a pretty stupid term anyways. Watch the video then we can discuss it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, supernatural is a pretty stupid term anyways.

Actually you're right.

Originally posted by Bardock42

Watch the video then we can discuss it.

Ok but not right now.

Well what can I say. I dont disgree with any of that. I just find it hard to believe that he hasnt found anything at all. I mean im sceptical about pre-cogniton but that stuff that those monks did in the cold is very possible.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I will look at it later. I know a bit about Randi the intersting thing is ive never seen him investigate anything serious. Maybe he should try going to China or somewhere where people practice internal martial arts.

There have been expreiments where monks have survived in freezing cold temperatures, put wet towels on themselves and used their body heat to dry the towels.

Ive seen a Qi gong master suddenly lose his balance and be thrown across the room (not in the air, along the ground it was pretty fast).

Why is it all of a sudden when Randi investigest people there is nothing. He needs to stop ****ing with these New Age twats and investiage soemthing proper.

Its the samething with Derren Brown he tried to debunk the empty force. Instead of him actually going to a Qi gong master he went to a ****ing Wing Chun school where they dont even teach chi.

As far as imconcerned its not wether its real, its how real is it. Sure people can use their body heat to dry wet towels in freezing cold temperatures but does that mean you can be telekinetic?

At any rate my point is that regardless of what you believe there is evidence to indicate that religous practices are not without merit and can be apllied to science.

Worse case scenerio is that magic can be seen as a form of self hypnosis.

promenent members of psudoscientific movements are normally very reluctant to be tested in an empirical manner. For example, Sylvia Brown.

If a real Qi Gong master or whatever was willing, hell, I'd test them.

Originally posted by inimalist
promenent members of psudoscientific movements are normally very reluctant to be tested in an empirical manner. For example, Sylvia Brown.

New age crap? Thats why I hate them.

Originally posted by inimalist

If a real Qi Gong master or whatever was willing, hell, I'd test them.

Bro to tell you the truth even if I was a qi gong master im not sure if I would want to be tested. Some of the things that they can do apparently I would not want to tell anyone. Its like the saying goes "The best trick that the devil did is to fool everbody into thinking he did not exist."

In saying that though im sure some people feel differently. I just find it hard to belive that people have not found SOME proof of the supernaturl ability...I almost think its a conspiracy....

Originally posted by Alfheim
New age crap? Thats why I hate them.

Bro to tell you the truth even if I was a qi gong master im not sure if I would want to be tested. Some of the things that they can do apparently I would not want to tell anyone. Its like the saying goes "The best trick that the devil did is to fool everbody into thinking he did not exist."

In saying that though im sure some people feel differently. I just find it hard to belive that people have not found SOME proof of the supernaturl ability...I almost think its a conspiracy....

Well, then you can't really accuse Randi of not searching those that want to hide their skills out.

He is just debunking the ones that deceive the masses.

Just about the scientific community thing...

I didn't mention it as a exclusionary or authoritaian sense, just to try and give a explanation for my position.

Honestly, anyone who is interested in science and maintaining its credibility and uses scientific methodology when addressing the universe can call themselves part of the "scientific community", which in all honesty I only use as a placeholder for "members of society who are interested...... ect"

Originally posted by Alfheim
New age crap? Thats why I hate them.

Ok, well, it also applies to anyone making paranormal, supernatural or even pseudoscientific claims.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro to tell you the truth even if I was a qi gong master im not sure if I would want to be tested. Some of the things that they can do apparently I would not want to tell anyone. Its like the saying goes "The best trick that the devil did is to fool everbody into thinking he did not exist."

well, that seems convenient.

Originally posted by Alfheim
In saying that though im sure some people feel differently. I just find it hard to belive that people have not found SOME proof of the supernaturl ability...I almost think its a conspiracy....

well, if people with supernatural abilities are hiding them from the people looking for them, then yes, there is a conspiracy. The conspiracy is that people with powers are conspiring against the world so that we can never discover them.

Yet they then go on tv and talk about it while selling their book and hooking in long term investors.

When science spends 30-40 years (at least) looking for something and finds not even a shred of evidence, while you can never disprove a hypothesis with 100% certainty, you can kind of rule out the possibility of it existing.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, then you can't really accuse Randi of not searching those that want to hide their skills out.

He is just debunking the ones that deceive the masses.

No prob. Another thing as well if you really had powers to an extent that could mean more problems, think about it. People wouldnt leave you alone and their have been people who were supposed to have had powers who were assasinated.

I do knowtthat their are freemasons that practice the occult (OTO) but the question is the occult real from my opnion its is but I dont know to what extent. Maybe there is truth in the possibility of people with powers controlling socitey from the shadows and maybe people try to cover the supernatural up.

Furthermore its seems that the real bas asses are not even interested in society. They meditate in the freezing cold and hardly need to sleep or drink and its like you know personally if I find out this stuff is real I would strongly conisder becoming a monk because for me what is the point in worrying about society when there is so much more out there.

Of course I could be wrong but we shall see.

Originally posted by inimalist

well, that seems convenient.

What so you would let people know that you can kill people really easily?

Originally posted by inimalist

well, if people with supernatural abilities are hiding them from the people looking for them, then yes, there is a conspiracy. The conspiracy is that people with powers are conspiring against the world so that we can never discover them.

Yet they then go on tv and talk about it while selling their book and hooking in long term investors.

When science spends 30-40 years (at least) looking for something and finds not even a shred of evidence, while you can never disprove a hypothesis with 100% certainty, you can kind of rule out the possibility of it existing.

Look inamlsit. Bardock asked me why I belived in what I belive and I gave a long list. Now if you're HONEST I think you will see that I have good reasons for believeing in what I do BUT it does not prove it for a 100 percent certainity, but at the same time its not like I dont have any basis.

Starting to read the God Delusion I noticed something odd. And here it is

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Einstein "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

You quoted that, yet also told me to read The God Delusion. I wonder did you actually, because he rather prominently quote Einstein about this quote that's taken out of context:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it

- Albert Einstein

Are you one of them that systematically misquotes Einstein to give a wrong impression about his views?