Originally posted by XenogearsZasalamel wasn't really immortal, he was a reincarnater. Ganon with ToP is a true immortal in he just doesn't die. And besides that little platform where the fight takes place it just looks like warped evil energy and flying rocks all around. Also, he only killed Zasalamel because he was in the Chaos Realm.
We don't know how exactly big the Chaos Realm is, though.And, Night Terror killed an immortal being permanately.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
NT killed an being who every time he died reincarnated in Chaos Realm, and he stopped that cycle.
The primary problem with saying "he killed an immortal" is the fact that something like that is impossible to quantify. It doesn't really guage Night Terror's power.
It's not just killing Zasalamel, Every feat that Cervantes, Nightmare and Inferno have ever produced can easily be reproduced by Night Terror, and then strengthened due to it's enhanced power.
Now, as for the Chaos Realm, it's easily as big as a star system, if not more... the place had planets, stars and asteroids in it's background.
Next, since Ganon is an Evil Soul, the SE's influence will be far more profound on him than it was on Link, and Ganon's Tri-Force of Power will not protect him, at least not in the way that Link's Tri-force of Courage might (and I stress the word MIGHT) have protected him from the weapons influence.
Now,onto V2D's assessment.
Strength: NT, the thing is a huge, brutalmonster so *Agreed*
Speed: I need proof of Ganon's speed before I accept yourassessment here.
Durability: Sorry, but being immune to normal weapons and being immortal arn'tenough here, as demonstrated by Zasalamel.
Magic: If you mean by powers, then NT wins this with considerable ease, since the SE has demonstrated loads of stuff, including world changing capability, Mass mind alterings (Evil Seed) Draining of the worlds energy (SC2 and 3) Draining of Other peoples energy (Taki)...
Sword Skill: Oh come on... Since when has Ganon used a sword skillfully? feats would be good... SE provides NT with eons of fighting skills and experience against vast arrays of weapons.
Versatility: I beleive I have rebuked your statebent with that of above.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroStrength: Yep. But Ganon's no weakling, and actually when he transforms he's probably stronger than NT.
It's not just killing Zasalamel, Every feat that Cervantes, Nightmare and Inferno have ever produced can easily be reproduced by Night Terror, and then strengthened due to it's enhanced power.Now, as for the Chaos Realm, it's easily as big as a star system, if not more... the place had planets, stars and asteroids in it's background.
Next, since Ganon is an Evil Soul, the SE's influence will be far more profound on him than it was on Link, and Ganon's Tri-Force of Power will not protect him, at least not in the way that Link's Tri-force of Courage might (and I stress the word MIGHT) have protected him from the weapons influence.
Now,onto V2D's assessment.
Strength: NT, the thing is a huge, brutalmonster so *Agreed*
Speed: I need proof of Ganon's speed before I accept yourassessment here.
Durability: Sorry, but being immune to normal weapons and being immortal arn'tenough here, as demonstrated by Zasalamel.
Magic: If you mean by powers, then NT wins this with considerable ease, since the SE has demonstrated loads of stuff, including world changing capability, Mass mind alterings (Evil Seed) Draining of the worlds energy (SC2 and 3) Draining of Other peoples energy (Taki)...
Sword Skill: Oh come on... Since when has Ganon used a sword skillfully? feats would be good... SE provides NT with eons of fighting skills and experience against vast arrays of weapons.
Versatility: I beleive I have rebuked your statebent with that of above.
Speed: In WW when Ganon knocked out Link near the end of the game to get his Triforce he rushed Link with considerable speed, more so than NT. Also in TP when he breaks his chains in the instant it breaks he's already in front of one of the sages and he kills him with a rushing punch, all of that in one movement.Ganon can run circles around NT, hell, he might be as fast, or maybe even faster than Taki. I would posts vids as proof, but this com won't allow it so you'll have to wait.
Magic:Let's list Ganon's magical feats shall we?
1.Placed a death curse on a spirit, the Great Deku tree, spirits are second only to Gods in Holy power, and this is pre-Triforce Ganon.
2.Put a curse on Jabu Jabu, another spirit, once again, pre-Triforce Ganon.
3.Was powerful enough to single handedly control Hyrule castle from the inside, and killed the king. I don't know if magic played a part, but I just decided to list it.
4.After he got ToP he spread monsters across the land, built a castle, and stuff. I think it's likely that Ganon creates these monsters, it's not like he buys them off the black market.
5.Had Saria captured, the whole forest filled with monsters, and created a phantom of himself to guard Saria in the temple.
6.Captured all but a few of the gorons, a super strong race made from rocks, and revived Volvagia from the dead to do his bidding and eat them.
7. Froze over a whole city of fich peoples and created Morpha to guard the Water Temple.
8. Released the spirit Bongo Bongo which destroyed Kakariko village and sent it to guard the Shadow Temple.
9.Within an inch of his life released enough energy to shatter the top of his castle and weakened it's integrity to send it crashing down(I ask you, why didn't he do that on Link? PIS indeed.)
10. Still had enough energy to transform into Ganon and fight Link.
11.In TP was able to exist in a non-physical form, gave Zant a fraction of his power, and had him conquer Hyrule for him while Ganon could grow stronger.
12.Was able to defeat Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows, which allowed her to easily destroy Zant and shatter a powerful barrier around the castle.
I'm done on magic for now but I'll come back to it later.
Durability:Ganon survived a giant dragon breathing fire on his face and his whole fortress collapsing because of it. Also, Zasalamel wasn't immortal, he was a reincarnator, whereas Ganon is a true immortal.
Sword Skill:While SE and SC have been alive for a very long time, probably longer than Ganon, we only see NT using one type of sword style and that's the one we're using. Ganon has been trained in swords since young as a Gerudo and has become a master of different, sword types, as shown in WW when he wields dual swords and TP he uses a sort of Zweihander type sword. Don't judge by gameplay.
Versatility: NT's powers are all meant for destruction, Ganon can do much more.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Strength: Yep. But Ganon's no weakling, and actually when he transforms he's probably stronger than NT.
Very hard to determine, considering that NT is even stronger physically than Collosus, who can literally kill anyone in the series in a single strike.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Speed: In WW when Ganon knocked out Link near the end of the game to get his Triforce he rushed Link with considerable speed, more so than NT. Also in TP when he breaks his chains in the instant it breaks he's already in front of one of the sages and he kills him with a rushing punch, all of that in one movement.Ganon can run circles around NT, hell, he might be as fast, or maybe even faster than Taki. I would posts vids as proof, but this com won't allow it so you'll have to wait.
NT killed Zasalamel permanently in the blink of an eye in it's birth cries. and posesses omnidirectional attacks.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Magic:Let's list Ganon's magical feats shall we?
1.Placed a death curse on a spirit, the Great Deku tree, spirits are second only to Gods in Holy power, and this is pre-Triforce Ganon.
2.Put a curse on Jabu Jabu, another spirit, once again, pre-Triforce Ganon.
3.Was powerful enough to single handedly control Hyrule castle from the inside, and killed the king. I don't know if magic played a part, but I just decided to list it.
4.After he got ToP he spread monsters across the land, built a castle, and stuff. I think it's likely that Ganon creates these monsters, it's not like he buys them off the black market.
5.Had Saria captured, the whole forest filled with monsters, and created a phantom of himself to guard Saria in the temple.
6.Captured all but a few of the gorons, a super strong race made from rocks, and revived Volvagia from the dead to do his bidding and eat them.
7. Froze over a whole city of fich peoples and created Morpha to guard the Water Temple.
8. Released the spirit Bongo Bongo which destroyed Kakariko village and sent it to guard the Shadow Temple.
9.Within an inch of his life released enough energy to shatter the top of his castle and weakened it's integrity to send it crashing down(I ask you, why didn't he do that on Link? PIS indeed.)
10. Still had enough energy to transform into Ganon and fight Link.
11.In TP was able to exist in a non-physical form, gave Zant a fraction of his power, and had him conquer Hyrule for him while Ganon could grow stronger.
12.Was able to defeat Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows, which allowed her to easily destroy Zant and shatter a powerful barrier around the castle.
I'm done on magic for now but I'll come back to it later.
I could list all of SE's feats... but Ican't be bothered right now.
#1: Evil Seed (Basically corrupting the world instantly)
#2: Cervante's animating his ship solo. (He was the only one on board, yet it sailed and attacked as though it where fully manned, and he did this for over 10 years.)
#3: It took 3 separate battles to down Cervantes, and he lost half of his power before fighting the 2nd fight.
#4: Inferno took on 3 people simultaneously, all equipped with magical weapons tdesigned to defeat SE, and he still badly injured them in a fight that lasted days. (SC1, the fight with Kilik Maxi and Xiang-Hua.)
#5: Drained Taki's weapons of theyr demon slaying power from halfway across the planet.
#6: Devours Souls, but favours evil souls and strong souls (Basically the souls of evil people and/or powerful warriors.
#7: Also feeds on abient energy, especially evil energy that is not it's own (Example, the Demon Shrine Taki uses to seal the demons she defeats) And leaves behind it's own evil influence.
#8: Grants supernatural capabilities and knowlege/experience upon it's wielder.
I'll list more later.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Durability:Ganon survived a giant dragon breathing fire on his face and his whole fortress collapsing because of it. Also, Zasalamel wasn't immortal, he was a reincarnator, whereas Ganon is a true immortal.
See above, #4
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Sword Skill:While SE and SC have been alive for a very long time, probably longer than Ganon, we only see NT using one type of sword style and that's the one we're using. Ganon has been trained in swords since young as a Gerudo and has become a master of different, sword types, as shown in WW when he wields dual swords and TP he uses a sort of Zweihander type sword. Don't judge by gameplay.
No, no no no... Not what I meant.
While Night Terror uses the Zwehandler type, he still has profound knowlege and experience with other weapon types, so he knows how to use his chosed weapon type to counter any other type of weapon. It's called Fighting Skill.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Versatility: NT's powers are all meant for destruction, Ganon can do much more.
That doesn't really mean much when a VS is determine by each contenders ability to defeat the other.
Curses and other magics may be useful, but against NT? all you'd be doing is feeding it magical energy, Especially since it's evil magic.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroStrength: Who the hell is Collossuss? I haven't played SC in a while.
Very hard to determine, considering that NT is even stronger physically than Collosus, who can literally kill anyone in the series in a single strike.NT killed Zasalamel permanently in the blink of an eye in it's birth cries. and posesses omnidirectional attacks.
I could list all of SE's feats... but Ican't be bothered right now.
#1: Evil Seed (Basically corrupting the world instantly)
#2: Cervante's animating his ship solo. (He was the only one on board, yet it sailed and attacked as though it where fully manned, and he did this for over 10 years.)
#3: It took 3 separate battles to down Cervantes, and he lost half of his power before fighting the 2nd fight.
#4: Inferno took on 3 people simultaneously, all equipped with magical weapons tdesigned to defeat SE, and he still badly injured them in a fight that lasted days. (SC1, the fight with Kilik Maxi and Xiang-Hua.)
#5: Drained Taki's weapons of theyr demon slaying power from halfway across the planet.
#6: Devours Souls, but favours evil souls and strong souls (Basically the souls of evil people and/or powerful warriors.
#7: Also feeds on abient energy, especially evil energy that is not it's own (Example, the Demon Shrine Taki uses to seal the demons she defeats) And leaves behind it's own evil influence.
#8: Grants supernatural capabilities and knowlege/experience upon it's wielder.
I'll list more later.
See above, #4
No, no no no... Not what I meant.
While Night Terror uses the Zwehandler type, he still has profound knowlege and experience with other weapon types, so he knows how to use his chosed weapon type to counter any other type of weapon. It's called Fighting Skill.
That doesn't really mean much when a VS is determine by each contenders ability to defeat the other.
Curses and other magics may be useful, but against NT? all you'd be doing is feeding it magical energy, Especially since it's evil magic.
Speed: NT was able to kill Zas instantly because he was like right behind him when he was born. And the omnidirectional thing doesn't put his speed on par with Ganon's, as I said he runs circles around him.
1. Get's too much hype IMO, it may of went around the world but it doesn't show NT's power.
2.That's cool, but really doesn't help this fight much or show any fighting power.
3.In TP it took 4(5 if you include the one with Midna) fights to put down Ganon using weapons specially made to fight someone like him, and before that he had a big ass sword stabbed through his chest which still had a big hole.
4.In WW he simultaneously fought two people, one who meleed him with Master Sword the other with Light Arrows, and in TP he fought first with Link while possessing Zelda's body, then as Ganon fought Link with Midna to help, fought Midna in a spirit battle who had the Fused Shadows, fought Link on horseback who had Zelda shooting Light Arrows at him, and then swordfought Link, and after being impaled with his MS he wasn't defeated until Zant killed himself to sever his spirit with his body(I think that's what happened, there's alot of speculation about it tho).
5.That can pretty much be grouped in with the Evil Seed feat can't it?
6.He'll need to kill Ganon first, which isn't happening.
7.Ganon doesn't just let his energy leak out.
8.I know.
I know but really we only see NT using that style but I'll give NT this I guess, he still won't win.
Use imagination, he can summon creatures to distract him to get easy hits on, or something. And also another thing that can help Ganon is that he can kinda teleport, adding to his already superior speed.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Strength: Who the hell is Collossuss? I haven't played SC in a while.
Collosus is that giant Olympian statue.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Speed: NT was able to kill Zas instantly because he was like right behind him when he was born. And the omnidirectional thing doesn't put his speed on par with Ganon's, as I said he runs circles around him.
No, but the way he killed Zasalamel does, "He becamea hurricane of motion."
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Get's too much hype IMO, it may of went around the world but it doesn't show NT's power.
Actually, itonly shows half of SE's power. there is no hype considering what it did, and that there was no ordinary defence against it.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
2.That's cool, but really doesn't help this fight much or show any fighting power.
It shows control of inanmate objects.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
3.In TP it took 4(5 if you include the one with Midna) fights to put down Ganon using weapons specially made to fight someone like him, and before that he had a big ass sword stabbed through his chest which still had a big hole.
Yet lost to Link one on one in OOC. Not to mention that the weapons that these guys wielded had a specific strength against Soul Edge.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
4.In WW he simultaneously fought two people, one who meleed him with Master Sword the other with Light Arrows, and in TP he fought first with Link while possessing Zelda's body, then as Ganon fought Link with Midna to help, fought Midna in a spirit battle who had the Fused Shadows, fought Link on horseback who had Zelda shooting Light Arrows at him, and then swordfought Link, and after being impaled with his MS he wasn't defeated until Zant killed himself to sever his spirit with his body(I think that's what happened, there's alot of speculation about it tho).
Read above
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
5.That can pretty much be grouped in with the Evil Seed feat can't it?
No, it was a separate event. it happened during Soul Blade
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
6.He'll need to kill Ganon first, which isn't happening.
Why?
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
7.Ganon doesn't just let his energy leak out.
He has no choice, every being radiates energy, you can't stop it, unless your planing not to use any of your powers at all.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I know but really we only see NT using that style but I'll give NT this I guess, he still won't win.
No no no... NT's style doesn't change, his weapon doesn't change, but he has thousands of years of experience in both using, and fighting against every weapon and style... do you understand now? he can use the Zwehandler against other weapons and styles simply because he has the experience from both sides of the fight.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Use imagination, he can summon creatures to distract him to get easy hits on, or something. And also another thing that can help Ganon is that he can kinda teleport, adding to his already superior speed.
Night Terror can fly and teleport, and can easilyabsorb the monsters souls after blazing through them like a sword through water.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroWhen was NT ever stronger than Collossus? And when did a statue have strength? You're confusing the hell out of me.
Collosus is that giant Olympian statue.No, but the way he killed Zasalamel does, "He becamea hurricane of motion."
Actually, itonly shows half of SE's power. there is no hype considering what it did, and that there was no ordinary defence against it.
It shows control of inanmate objects.
Yet lost to Link one on one in OOC. Not to mention that the weapons that these guys wielded had a specific strength against Soul Edge.
Read above
No, it was a separate event. it happened during Soul Blade
Why?
He has no choice, every being radiates energy, you can't stop it, unless your planing not to use any of your powers at all.
No no no... NT's style doesn't change, his weapon doesn't change, but he has thousands of years of experience in both using, and fighting against every weapon and style... do you understand now? he can use the Zwehandler against other weapons and styles simply because he has the experience from both sides of the fight.
Night Terror can fly and teleport, and can easilyabsorb the monsters souls after blazing through them like a sword through water.
I was kinda talkin about running speed, but since Ganon is smaller than NT and less bulky he should realistically be able to fight omnidirectional too.
1.The Evil Seed wan't an attack, it was like some kinda effect from recieving the perfect host or sumthin. It's not like it can corrupt Ganon.
2.True but really it won't help.
3.OOC? WTF is that? If you mean OoT then I call PIS on the grounds that Ganon was toying with him the whole fight for some gay reason because he "underestimated" him. If he was capable of destroying the top of his tower and weaken it's integrity causing it to collapse by releasing his remaining magical power within an inch from death, why did he not just use that power to kill Link? PIS in it's purest form. Also, you can't just undermine the feat I posted by saying he lost 1 on 1 to Link in one game.
4.Read above.🙂
5.Oh okay.
6.Cause Ganon wins.😄
7.Explain how this works. Is Ganon getting weaker? Oh, and Ganon could concentrate his evil energy so NT couldn't absorb it can't he?
8.I know. I was just sayin he uses no other sword style, I know he has hundreds of years usin different weapons.
9.They'd still be a distraction and Ganon could use that. Ganon can fly, turn into pure Twilight Darkness or whatever you wanna call it and move with great speed in this form as shown in TP, or he could do the classic teleportin in the older Zelda games.