The Hole Problem

Started by Symmetric Chaos2 pages
Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

The Hole Problem

I don't know if this is technically a philosophy problem but it doesn't seems like it would fit elsewhere.

Imagine a strip of paper with a hole punched in it. There's no argument that hole is perfectly normal and cone shape.

Now imagine a Mobuis strip with a hole punched in it. What shape is that hole? Is it even a hole?

Mindship Snap out of it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Imagine a strip of paper with a hole punched in it. There's no argument that hole is perfectly normal and cone shape.

Now imagine a Mobuis strip with a hole punched in it. What shape is that hole? Is it even a hole?


I cut a strip of paper, punched a hole in it, then twisted it Mobiusly.

The hole was still circular (it was never cone shaped), and yes it was a hole (I could put my pencil tip through it).

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King
Originally posted by Mindship
The hole was still circular (it was never cone shaped)

My mistake that's supposed to be cylindrical not cone shaped 😮

But was it a cylinder once you made it into a Mobius strip? How could it travel in a straight line from one side to the same side?

Victor Von Doom Latverian Diplomat

I didn't quite get what you meant in the first post.

Luckily your second post made it worse.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I didn't quite get what you meant in the first post.

Luckily your second post made it worse.

Aww 😍

Mindship Snap out of it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
My mistake that's supposed to be cylindrical not cone shaped 😮
My hole was circular, 2D...unless you're counting the thickness of the paper as the 3rd dimension for the cylinder.

But was it a cylinder once you made it into a Mobius strip? How could it travel in a straight line from one side to the same side?
No, it was still a hole...or maybe what one could call a Chaos Cylinder. 😉

Are you asking this: a hole is a space in a boundary, so you can get from one side to the other. Since a Mobius strip has only one side, is this really a hole (because you arrived on the same side you left from; you didn't go from one side to another)?

I'll say, yes, and that it's called an M-Hole.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King
Originally posted by Mindship
My hole was circular, 2D...unless you're counting the thickness of the paper as the 3rd dimension for the cylinder.

I am, as it serves my argument 313

Originally posted by Mindship
Are you asking this: a hole is a space in a boundary, so you can get from one side to the other. Since a Mobius strip has only one side, is this really a hole (because you arrived on the same side you left from; you didn't go from one side to another)?

Actually my question is this: How can the hole be straight (as a cylinder) if it can send an object though it perpendicular to the surface of the paper and move it to a different point on the same side?

The whole "is it a hole" think was just to make it seem philosophical 😄

Originally posted by Mindship
I'll say, yes, and that it's called an M-Hole.

hmm Sounds like a cop out to me.

Mindship Snap out of it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually my question is this: How can the hole be straight (as a cylinder) if it can send an object though it perpendicular to the surface of the paper and move it to a different point on the same side?
That's sorta what I meant.
I would think that, just like the Mobius twist changes what it means for a strip of paper to have sides, it also changes what it means for a strip of paper to have a hole in it. But it's still a hole.

hmm Sounds like a cop out to me.
Actually, just a bad joke.

The whole "is it a hole" think was just to make it seem philosophical 😄
Sorry. I think my attempt at humor was still worse than your attempt to wax philosophically.

The Black Ghost Observer

Who ever said a hole has to be round?

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Who ever said a hole has to be round?

It doesn't. The problem isn't really changed though.

debbiejo Dreamer

out with the old theories and in with the new. We are no longer living in the steps of Newton and all that is related to that.

Mindship Snap out of it.

The Hole Problem

Isn't this a problem?

A Mobius strip is a 2D figure. How could you have a cylindrical hole?

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Re: The Hole Problem

Originally posted by Mindship
Isn't this a problem?

A Mobius strip is a 2D figure. How could you have a cylindrical hole?

A proper Mobius strip would be but the only one I can make has depth to the paper.

I suppose if we assume that the paper is 2D it changes slightly. But still . . .

Quiero Mota Member Señor

Re: The Hole Problem

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't know if this is technically a philosophy problem but it doesn't seems like it would fit elsewhere.

Imagine a strip of paper with a hole punched in it. There's no argument that hole is perfectly normal and cone shape.

Now imagine a Mobuis strip with a hole punched in it. What shape is that hole? Is it even a hole?

I really don't get what you're asking.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

sounds like he has a problem with his hole, ese.

Quiero Mota Member Señor

😂

Grand_Moff_Gav Senior Member

A mobius strip only has one side, so how can you put a hole in it?

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
A mobius strip only has one side, so how can you put a hole in it?

Exactly.

Mindship Snap out of it.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
A mobius strip only has one side, so how can you put a hole in it?

A 2D figure can have a hole in it. In simplest terms, a hole is just a gap, a discontinuity in a defined area. However, in 2D, the hole can't have depth, nor can it lead from one side to another, as these bring in the 3rd dimension.

Grand_Moff_Gav Senior Member

But the hole goes from one end of the strip to the other...weird..