Originally posted by superkronick92
Black did telekenetically punch supes through a mountain, and did threaten to liquify his pancreas, Couldn't he just liquefy hulks brain?
threatening is NOT doing . . . 😬
and i'm not sure smurf. i'm not even a 100% sure the attack WOULD ko him. an interesting question might be, could black simply CONTINUE to damage hulk's brain even after/while it is healing? if that's the case, then it might be impossible for hulk to win and i would guess enough repetitive damage could/would take out hulk.
maybe? shrug
I generally consider something around a ten count, for KO.
I don't see why Black couldn't continue to attack Hulk while he's healing. He still needs a brain to function as far as I'm aware, so I don't see why Black could block off all the arteries in the circle of Willis, and keep them blocked, telekinetically.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I generally consider something around a ten count, for KO.I don't see why Black couldn't continue to attack Hulk while he's healing. He still needs a brain to function as far as I'm aware, so I don't see why Black could block off all the arteries in the circle of Willis, and keep them blocked, telekinetically.
The problem is that if Hulk gets amped enough he has shown resistance to telekinetic attacks and the ability to affect raw energy using his body. Examples being ripping through forcefields with his hands, punching a cloud of energy, etc.. Check out the F4 issue where he one-shots through Sue's forcefield with a punch.
This would make it harder for Manchester Black to do his telekinetic internal attacks IMHO.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't see why Black couldn't continue to attack Hulk while he's healing. He still needs a brain to function as far as I'm aware, so I don't see why Black could block off all the arteries in the circle of Willis, and keep them blocked, telekinetically.
certainly possible. if he could, i wonder if it would then come down to an endurance battle -- hulk would continue to heal, perhaps almost indefinitely. would black exhaust himself before he could actually ko hulk? maybe, or maybe hulk would just be a pain-filled, rampaging vegetable until black konked out and hulk healed fully? shrug
it's an interesting match x. tough to call because there really is no examples on which to draw analogies.
where does Manchester Black get the time and space to do such a sustained attack on the Hulk?
such pain won't debilitate The Hulk at all, he will be an attacking force up until the hypothetical ko occurs.
that means MB won't have time to concentrate or exert himself on that one attack. Hulk will be throwing half the scenery at him.
also, yes Hulk's healing and regen powers will be working all the while so MB probably won't even make much of an attack before it gets to a state where MB's offense is basically overmatched by Hulk's healing/durability/resistance powers.
illusions and such don't work on the Hulk. it's been an established part of his 'powers' that magic, astral attacks and psi-attacks all are 'visible' to him.
there isn't much outside his leaping ability, unless it's truly off-world.
think a good question would be, how fast is MB, can he remain outside of Hulk's range for any length of time?
Originally posted by janus77
illusions and such don't work on the Hulk. it's been an established part of his 'powers' that magic, astral attacks and psi-attacks all are 'visible' to him.there isn't much outside his leaping ability, unless it's truly off-world.
think a good question would be, how fast is MB, can he remain outside of Hulk's range for any length of time?
magic and psi-powers are different. where have you seen him see through psi-based illusions?
black was fast enough to match superman in battle. i'd say he was easily quick enough to evade hulk but to do so AND mount enough offense to eventually ko him would be difficult.
in that case then, given MB's speed, I think Hulk's gonna struggle with MB, but I still don't see MB winning.
the psi stuff works on the astral level, no? like jean could see and project onto that?
Hulk sees astral forms, iirc, he's also fought The Destroyer (when possessed by maestro Hulk, using his astral form.
and mental/psi attacks generally come to naught against the Hulk.
Originally posted by janus77
illusions and such don't work on the Hulk. it's been an established part of his 'powers' that magic, astral attacks and psi-attacks all are 'visible' to him.there isn't much outside his leaping ability, unless it's truly off-world.
think a good question would be, how fast is MB, can he remain outside of Hulk's range for any length of time?
^^ Quoted for Truth.
Here are examples of Hulk resisting mystical mental attacks from a prepped Dr. Strange:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/HulkresistsDrstrange.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/HulkresistsDrstrange1.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/HulkresistsDrstrange3.jpg
Keep in mind every attack he resists will make him madder and more resistant. There will be a certain point where his healing will be near instantaneous and will overcome the attack itself.
Look at how fast Hulk overcame Sue's forcefield when he fought Reed Richards:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/Hulkvsreedsue1.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/Hulkvsreedsue2.jpg
It only took two shots to completely overcome Sue's forcefield, which is considered to be extremely strong.
Here is an example of Hulk overcoming x-man's psi-field:
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view¤t=hulkvsxman.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/?action=view¤t=hulkvsxman1.jpg
He blasted right through X-man's psi attacks, and this was a Hulk that wasn't as amped up as WWH.
Even the Hulk's internals are incredibly durable:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkinsidesdurable.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkinsidesdurable1.jpg
Meaning it's going to require increasing amounts of effort for Manchester Black to even effect his internal structure, as his healing factor, resistance to TK, and internal strength will continue to increase the longer the fight goes on.
See what happens when Kittie phases the Hulk's arms into the ground at the molecular level:
http://img145.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=84593_World_War_Hulk_-_X-Men_8002_009_122_845lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=84600_World_War_Hulk_-_X-Men_2002_010_122_1113lo.jpg
That shows that Hulk can reform his body parts even after molecular bonding to another object. His healing is off the charts. He can regrow entire organs in a matter of seconds like in his fight with the x-men, he had his eyes gouged out twice and each time they were back within a few seconds.
Here is an example of Hulk ripping pure energy using his hands:
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Crazy-IH242.jpg
Punches through energy that's strong enough to move a planet:
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Crazy-TTA89.jpg
Thunder-claps through a sonic attack (once again, affecting pure energy):
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Crazy-IH126b.jpg
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Crazy-IH126c.jpg
Punches through a time storm!
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Crazy-IH135.jpg
He can even regrow to normal size after getting shrunk:
http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/5672/ann5j1qa.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3606/ann5k7vo.jpg
Examples of Hulk sensing mystical energies:
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/8595/mysticsense5ho.jpg
Example of Hulk sensing through illusion:
http://img110.exs.cx/img110/644/nebulon11tw.jpg
Example of Hulk seeing an astral form:
http://img53.echo.cx/img53/8946/mystical049yd.jpg
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Bump.+ Manchester Black in case people don't know who he is.
I dont know who wins but he looks like a very cool character. I got to look him up.
Originally posted by janus77
that scan where he thunderclaps to redirect enough energy to move a planet, ends up destroying a "cosmos"?is that a proper cosmos - universe - or some special little dimension?
It was known as the Dark Cosmos I believe, basically a pocket dimension. Still it's a hefty feat to destroy a pocket realm using brute strength.
Imo the writer ignored that when Kitty phases herself or others into things her atoms are literally intermingled with the other atoms. Otherwise that incident made no sense.
Also TK constriction of the cerebral arteries would induce KO if prolonged. It isn't about inflicting pain - the brain itself actually has no pain receptors - it's about causing ischemia. Black can block Superman's blood vessels ergo he can block Hulk's. Unless someone is aware of Hulk being able to function without any brain activity.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Imo the writer ignored that when Kitty phases herself or others into things her atoms are literally intermingled with the other atoms. Otherwise that incident made no sense.Also TK constriction of the cerebral arteries would induce KO if prolonged. It isn't about inflicting pain - the brain itself actually has no pain receptors - it's about causing ischemia. Black can block Superman's blood vessels ergo he can block Hulk's. Unless someone is aware of Hulk being able to function without any brain activity.
The writer didn't ignore that, he took it into account, that's why Hulk screamed in pain when she did it. Nevertheless Hulk recovered from it.
Look at the scans above. He can literally recover transmutation, and it isn't PIS; it's been shown time and time again to consistently be one of his abilities. He's been transmuted into solid glass (recovered), shrunk down super small (recovered), phased into solid matter (recovered). You get the picture; when Hulk is extremely angry he can do things that you simply could not do with pure physical force.
Originally posted by KutuluIf the writer had taken into account that Kitty's atoms intermingle with the atoms of other matter when she phases, then when the interlaced atoms coalesced upon her relinquishing her power, his arms would become contiguous with the ground i.e. there would have been no arms to speak of. He'd basically have to regrow his arms and legs from the point at which there was no fusion which wasn't what happened. Instead he just pulled his arms out of the ground, with some chunks as if the ground had pierced into his arm as solid pieces upon her releasing her powers, and a distinction between the two had remained throughout.
The writer didn't ignore that, he took it into account, that's why Hulk screamed in pain when she did it. Nevertheless Hulk recovered from it.Look at the scans above. He can literally recover transmutation, and it isn't PIS; it's been shown time and time again to consistently be one of his abilities. He's been transmuted into solid glass (recovered), shrunk down super small (recovered), phased into solid matter (recovered). You get the picture; when Hulk is extremely angry he can do things that you simply could not do with pure physical force.
Ergo no I don't think how Kitty's power works was taken into account, at least not properly
Shapeshifters/metamorphs, of which Hulk is in a way, have always had resistance to transmutation e.g. Meggan can resist being turned to gold, e.g. Sersi has on occasion encountered a shapeshifter who wouldn't retain the transmutation she performed.\
All of this somewhat an aside, since I doubt Manchester Black will be attacking Hulk's arms.
