Originally posted by Arianna
I agree with you.
I agree as well. I just wish that there was more information on dueling so that we could know how to judge a duelist. I myself am under the impression that dueling requires a lot of quick wit, like mathematics on the spot. Spells are after all like equations and whoever has the most extensive knowledge of them and can do them fast and accurate would be the best.
It's gotta be (in this order):
1. Dumbledore - had basically a stalemate with Voldemort in book 5, and he was likely better in his younger days. Got all Outstandings in his N.E.W.T.S.
2. Voldemort - Most evil dark wizard of all time, stalemated Dumbledore, has never lost a duel straight-up. Beat McGonagall, Slughorn and Kingsley 3 on 1.
3. Grindelwald - Put up "the greatest duel of all time" against a young (30 or so year old) Dumbledore (and may have given up in the end).
4. Amelia Bones - was thought to be murdered by Voldemort himself, and all the evidence at the scene suggested she put up a good fight. Against Voldemort himself. She was also called a great witch.
5. Severus Snape - Tricked the Dark Lord, fended off McGonagall even though she attacked him by surprise and he was trying not to kill her, fricken toyed with Harry in book 6 even though Harry was pissed.
6. Bellatrix Lestrange - Stalemated Ginny, Hermione and Luna, 3 on 1, beat Kingsley and was the only Death Eater to escape the Department of Mysteries. I'd put her above Snape, but Harry's Cruciatus Curse actually hurt her a tiny bit while in HBP Snape easily blocked an even angrier Harry (a stronger one as well, as Harry got stronger between book 5 and 6). Bellatrix also beat Greyback and the other wizard catchers all at once (4 total, I believe).
7. Molly Weasley - Beat Bellatrix, but I think she'd have lost if Bellatrix hadn't gotten cocky. But she was a good match for her for a while, which I find stupid, since Bella is called a prodigy and Molly is never even stated as being a good dueler.
8. Sirius Black - He may have beaten Bellatrix if he hadn't gotten cocky (impossible to say, though) but he lasted a while against her at least and escaped Azkaban.
9. Kingsley Shakelebolt - Beat two Death Eaters at once at the Department of Mysteries, but lost to Bellatrix. One of the few members of the Order of the Phoenix who survived the Battle of Hogwarts. Said Voldemort's name out-loud and was surrounded by Death Eaters, but fought his way out of them. Was also the Prime Ministers bodyguard during the war and was Cornelius Fudges' personal bodyguard before that. Was also the top Auror, as he was assigned to find Sirius, who was, at the time, thought to be the strongest and most evil dark wizard on the loose.
10. Madam Maxime - performed some of the best wand-work Hagrid has ever seen, making two giants drop Hagrid. This is highly impressive, seeing as Ministry of Magic Auror's couldn't even sun Hagrid, who is only a half-giant. Could even be further up on the list.
Other notable people:
- McGonagall - Snape may not have been trying to kill her when they fought, but the magic that she used was still pretty incredible. She also survivied the Battle of Hogwarts, despite having attacked Voldemort hismelf (alongside Flitwick and Slughorn).
- Flitwick, who has done as much as McGonagall (fought Snape and Voldemort alongside her), plus was said to be a dueling expert in his day.
- Slughorn - Also fought Voldemort and survivied the Battle of Hogwarts, an old friend of Dumbledore's. Could really be as good as 4th strongest, but is to unknown.
- James/Lily Potter - Also could be as high as top 4, were called great wizards, but that could be for their personality, not dueling skills. Again, to unknown.
- Lupin - a great dueler, but probably not in the top 10.
- Dawlish - Fudge's other personal bodyguard. It was stateed that he got all "O"'s in his N.EW.T.S (same as Dumbledore). However, he got punked by Dumbledore in a fight and is later hexed by him in HBP.
- Rufus Scrimgeour - Head of the Auror Department, but to little is known about his dueling abilities.
- Alastor Moody - Almost certainly in the top 10 in his day (considering how famous he is and that Voldemort went after him before going after Kingsley) however in his later years he probably isn't, if he was still ahead of Kingsley he could likely have taken Crouch and Wormtail out, plus he got taken out in the Department of Mysteries.
- Barty Crouch Jr. - Tricked Dumbledore, but his dueling skills are unknown.
- Harry Potter - a great dueler, yet Lupin suggested that he knew more than Harry did, and Harry couldn't compete with Bella or Snape at all.
- Igor Karkaroff - Successfully hid from Voldemort for a year, which Lupin (or Mr. Weasley, can't remember which) said was impressive, however, this means his hiding skills are great, not necessarily his dueling skills.
Moody was not taken out in the department of mysterires nor was it ever stated.
Also Moody getten beat by worm tail and crouch is far from a bad thing. Crouch was wicked powerful and worm tial though a little ***** was actaully not to bad him self. Moody was also ambushed and who to say he was not in bed sleeping. Also even beeing taken by surrpize they said he put up a hell of a fight if I am not mistaken.
Also moody put haft the people in askaban ( however it spelled). He was the best auror ever.
He also beat beletrixs. if I am not mistaken they mention that moody was the one who sent her to jail and captured her.
Moody is easily top 10. Hell voldamoors discion to go after moody first proves he was above kingsly.
Even in power moody makes top 10 easily, but in skill it even clearier that he top 4.
also all these people who think voldamoor is over albus dumbledoor are crazy. Voldamoor was scared of dumbledoor and is known to be weaker. Also as I recall the only time they fought dumbledoor was winning and he was aiming not to kill.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Moody was not taken out in the department of mysterires nor was it ever stated.Also moody put haft the people in askaban ( however it spelled). He was the best auror ever.
He also beat beletrixs. if I am not mistaken they mention that moody was the one who sent her to jail and captured her.
Moody is easily top 10. Hell voldamoors discion to go after moody first proves he was above kingsly.
also all these people who think voldamoor is over albus dumbledoor are crazy. Voldamoor was scared of dumbledoor and is known to be weaker. Also as I recall the only time they fought dumbledoor was winning and he was aiming not to kill.
Moody being beaten at the Department of Mysteries:
"Then Harry's foot made contact with something round and hard and he slipped- for a moment he thought he had dropped the prophecy, then he saw Moody's magic eye spinning away across the floor. It's owner was lying on his side, bleeding from the head, and his attacker was now bearing down upon Harry and Neville: Dolohov, his long pale face twisted with glee." From page 802 of the American version.
Moody (having filled practically half of Azkaban) might not have been the best Auror, but was most likely the most successful.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not. It could've been.
Yeah, that's definitely a plus for Moody. But Voldemort might have thought that Harry would've been more comfortable around Moody than with Kingsley.
About Dumbledore and Voldemort:
It's never been stated which one was more powerful. The only time we ever see them fight each other was in the Department of Mysteries, where Voldemort fled, most likely due to the arriving Ministry wizards. Also, Dumbledore (as nmensfinest stated) had the advantage of owning and using the Elder Wand.
Originally posted by Council#13
Moody being beaten at the Department of Mysteries:
"Then Harry's foot made contact with something round and hard and he slipped- for a moment he thought he had dropped the prophecy, then he saw Moody's magic eye spinning away across the floor. It's owner was lying on his side, bleeding from the head, and his attacker was now bearing down upon Harry and Neville: Dolohov, his long pale face twisted with glee." From page 802 of the American version.
Originally posted by Council#13
Moody (having filled practically half of Azkaban) might not have been the best Auror, but was most likely the most successful. .
many consider him the msot famous and greatest of the aurors though crazy lol.
Y
Originally posted by Council#13
eah, that's definitely a plus for Moody. But Voldemort might have thought that Harry would've been more comfortable around Moody than with Kingsley. .
It was made pritty evident that he was picked because he was the toughest and most skilled which tonks even states.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
I think the Grindelwald is definitely much more duelwise proficient than Snape. Snape's strong but nowhere enough that he could be considered near or even close to Dumbledore which in the Deathly Hallows it is stated that Grindelwald was. Grindel was apparently just slightly behind Dumbledore. But we really can't gauge Sirius too much cause for all we know the only reason he really lost was that he fell in the veil. or even James for that matter.
Originally posted by nmensfinest
Dumbledore had the unfair advantage of the elder wand, however. Make Voldemort the master of the elder wand, and I'd have no doubt in my mind that he'd be far superior to Dumbledore.
It was made pritty evident that he was picked because he was the toughest and most skilled which tonks even states.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
my bad then. Though the fight was not explained. Thats the problem with the way she right your not really sure what happens.
Yeah, JK kinda just inserted the part about Moody being beaten into a few little lines that you'd barely read. It's easy to miss, don't worry.
Originally posted by darthsith19
When did Tonks say that? Are you sure she didn't say he was the most skilled, past-tense? Are you sure that Voldemort didn't view him as the most skilled because he was more skilled than Kingsley in the height of his days, and Voldemort didn't know how much he decreased? The fact that Dolohov beat him puts him out of top 10 for sure for me. I mean, Bellatrix stalemated book 7 Hermione, Luna and Ginny, 3 on 1, and Dolohov was unable to beat book 5 Harry, Neville and Hermione 3 on 1, which is a weaker team, so Bella is quite a bit above Dolohov, and therefor also quite a bit above Moody.
Not to mention that when Harry, Hermione, and Ron were followed into one of the muggle restaurants they stunned Yaxley and Dolohov and then brainwashed them. I don't quite remember if it was Dolohov thought... Can someone refreshen my memory?
1. Dumbeldore- He stalemated Voldemort. Another thing I would like to add is that he won Grindelwald, the 2nd best Dark Lord there ever was. Another thing everyone forgets is that Dumbeldore beat Grindelwald while Grindelwald had the Elder Wand... Which was deemed unbeatable. I still don't really understand that, because if it's unbeatable then how did Dumbeldore beat Grindelwald? Also, he could speak Centaur language, Mermaid language, and Parslemouth. Which is just cool.
2. Voldemort - Stalemated Dumeldore and was the most badass Dark Lord of the time.
3. Snape - As someone earlier mentioned dueling takes alot of fast reactions and mathematical guesses. Snape is very good at that. He could block spells without saying them in matter of milliseconds, which we saw when Minerva tried to stun him at point blank range. Remember how close to each other they were, and he was taken by surprise. However, he still blocked the stunning spell. The 'full' battle with Minerva thought, he was holding back because he was part of the Order and didn't want to kill anyone. Added to that his legimancy is probably 2nd to only Voldemort and Dumbeldore. If Dumbeldore ever knew Legimancy... And another thing I would like to say is that Voldemort actually complimented Snape by calling him a good wizard. Is that the first time that Voldemort complimented anyone?
4. Moody/Kingsley - Moody in his prime would be here, but seeing as his power decreased by Deathy Hallows, then by the end of Harry Potter Kingsley stands here.
5. Belatrix - A really powerful Death Eater, the one that was closest to the Dark Lord only 2nd to Snape. Belatrix held out against 3 students who were at the end of their graduation, and I don't know how the hell Mrs. Weasley beat her.
I'm not going to go into the details now, but thats all for now.
Originally posted by Spidervlad
Not to mention that when Harry, Hermione, and Ron were followed into one of the muggle restaurants they stunned Yaxley and Dolohov and then brainwashed them. I don't quite remember if it was Dolohov thought... Can someone refreshen my memory?1. Dumbeldore- He stalemated Voldemort. Another thing I would like to add is that he won Grindelwald, the 2nd best Dark Lord there ever was. Another thing everyone forgets is that Dumbeldore beat Grindelwald while Grindelwald had the Elder Wand... Which was deemed unbeatable. I still don't really understand that, because if it's unbeatable then how did Dumbeldore beat Grindelwald? Also, he could speak Centaur language, Mermaid language, and Parslemouth. Which is just cool.
2. Voldemort - Stalemated Dumeldore and was the most badass Dark Lord of the time.
3. Snape - As someone earlier mentioned dueling takes alot of fast reactions and mathematical guesses. Snape is very good at that. He could block spells without saying them in matter of milliseconds, which we saw when Minerva tried to stun him at point blank range. Remember how close to each other they were, and he was taken by surprise. However, he still blocked the stunning spell. The 'full' battle with Minerva thought, he was holding back because he was part of the Order and didn't want to kill anyone. Added to that his legimancy is probably 2nd to only Voldemort and Dumbeldore. If Dumbeldore ever knew Legimancy... And another thing I would like to say is that Voldemort actually complimented Snape by calling him a good wizard. Is that the first time that Voldemort complimented anyone?
4. Moody/Kingsley - Moody in his prime would be here, but seeing as his power decreased by Deathy Hallows, then by the end of Harry Potter Kingsley stands here.
5. Belatrix - A really powerful Death Eater, the one that was closest to the Dark Lord only 2nd to Snape. Belatrix held out against 3 students who were at the end of their graduation, and I don't know how the hell Mrs. Weasley beat her.
I'm not going to go into the details now, but thats all for now.
I'd probably put Bellatrix above Kingsley, seeing as she beat him in the fifth book. I'd probably tie her with Snape, but I won't go into that. It doesn't really matter, though, the order. 🙂
Originally posted by Spidervlad
Yeah, but she was extremely cocky at times and got beat by Mrs. Weasley...I didn't put Mrs. Weasley anywhere on the list because I found Rowling's idea of Mrs. Weasley defeating Bellatrix silly and stupid.
I think that Bellatrix should've killed Mrs. Weasley just for shock value. Then someone else could kill Bellatrix. I'd say Neville or Harry.
Mrs.Weasley killing Bellatrix just goes to show that it is never easy to define a pecking order, in any franchise. Mrs.Weasley kills Bellatrix in the Hallows for the dramatic value. Does this mean she is stronger than Bellatrix? I doubt it. It's all very suspect.
On the other hand, Molly Weasley came from decent wizarding stock. The Prewett brothers were said to have killed hoards of Death Eater's while on the run.