I don´t see the problem. Science is just the tool to find out how God made things work. If evolution (which is only a theory) is some day proven it doesn´t mean there is no God, he could have created it that way so things can adapt. That the world is like a massive computer put into action to eventually create the best possible ,in material world ,livable creature.
Eventually there will probably be a "super humans" the product of computer memory, computing speed, nano technology, andoid mechanics and humans all meshed into one.
Originally posted by BicnarokEvolution is widely accepted as a Proven Scientific Fact.
I don´t see the problem. Science is just the tool to find out how God made things work. If evolution (which is only a theory) is some day proven it doesn´t mean there is no God, he could have created it that way so things can adapt. That the world is like a massive computer put into action to eventually create the best possible ,in material world ,livable creature.Eventually there will probably be a "super humans" the product of computer memory, computing speed, nano technology, andoid mechanics and humans all meshed into one.
Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....
Originally posted by Bicnarok
I don´t see the problem. Science is just the tool to find out how God made things work. If evolution (which is only a theory) is some day proven it doesn´t mean there is no God, he could have created it that way so things can adapt. That the world is like a massive computer put into action to eventually create the best possible ,in material world ,livable creature.Eventually there will probably be a "super humans" the product of computer memory, computing speed, nano technology, andoid mechanics and humans all meshed into one.
The problem is the bible. To some people the bible is the tool to find out how god made things work.
Pope Benedict XVI, restated his - and Pope John Paul' s (in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences) - argument.
Ratzinger delivered a series of homilies that were published in 1990 under the title In the Beginning ...: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall. He argued that: "The creation story in Genesis is a spiritual history. It simply doesn' t matter what physical means God used to create the world and all living creatures therein, what matters is that man is both body and soul, and his creation is not complete until God has breathed the breath of life into him. And about the creation of the soul (and, thus, of the complete man), science can tell us nothing."
Pope Pius XII proclaimed in his 1950 encyclical "Humani Generis" already that "there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith..."
Yeah, honestly, Catholics are pretty decent with changing their stance when they're about to be embarassed by science. Smart people can find justifications for lots of things, and meshing belief with science isn't hard for most people. You'll find some Catholic proponents of various levels of ID, but very few are adamate literal creationists.
Personally, I'm glad that the Pope is helping Catholics move on with scientific discovery, even if it does nothing toward correcting the various other flaws inherent within most religious belief.
At this point, evolution is accepted in most circles as scientific fact, so it only makes sense for religious institutions to fall in line. If you want to nitpick and say that even "facts" in science are nothing but probable hypotheses, not 100% certainties, then you'd be right. But it's that important distinction that seperates it from the dangerous dogma of fundamentalist religion.
Pope John Paul accepted the gradual stages of human evolution as scientific fact. However, the bible does claims that "man" was created in "God's" image, and since this cannot mean physicaly , it must be spiritual. The Pope basically argues that the body is developed through the evolutionary process, but the soul was interjected by God, which I guess is anti-evolutionary, atleast according to Richard Dawkins, since it requires a sudden addition of an incremental soul whereas evolution is a slow and gradual process.
No one has changed their stance. Didn't anyone read Storm's post?
Originally posted by Bicnarok
evolution (which is only a theory)
Someone (and it clearly isn't you) really, REALLY, REALLY needs to tell me how evolution being a theory somehow magically proves that is isn't a legitimate explaination. Legitimate, especially because there can be no proving or disproving of god, until the man decides to get off his lazy ass and do something. Something we can "understand", to boot. Whoops, I guess that's the catch 22 of organized religions.
Science isn't anything akin to religion. Science requires facts and testable hypotheses. Religion doesn't. All religion requires is a crazy guy in a bear skin stumbling out of the desert after 40 years. Or a crazy woman who goes around telling people god got her pregnant.
Yeah, Bicnarok you seriously need to learn the definition of what a scientific theory actually is.
Evolution is already regarded as scientific fact, and for anyone to deny the validity of Evolution is simply foolish, seeing as how we have fossils, carbon dating, bone structure similiarities, and even DNA similiarities which support the process of evolution throughout biological history.
Creationism is the "theory" which needs to be validated, because there is simply no evidense what-so-ever to validate it.
I enjoy a healthy debate, but have any of you taken the time to read the responses to this thread, not to mention your own, carefully? Frankly--and I mean no harm--the majority of you are presenting empty/blanket statements--providing zero evidence to support your claims. Others simply don't have the slightest clue as to what they are talking about. It is not my aim to make people's blood boil, but enough already!
For crying out loud, can't we all reach common ground and be honest with ourselves, namely to know when to be quiet and listen. The ego of some, not to mention the arrogance--you act like subject matter experts. Spend some money--a lot of money--and divorce yourselves from the internet in conducting research; the internet certainly can provide great research material--don't get me wrong--but most of you (I guarantee) lack the ability to distinguish a good source of information from a bad source. Rule number one: if it ain't got no references or bibliography, leave it alone. Period! Any body with an opinion can create a website and make claims. But where are the references and bibliography? And the dating of such... well, that goes without saying. I just hope its updating.
It is obvious--to me anyway--that some of you have definitely been digesting questionable material. I have read past posts of people proclaiming evolutionary theory to be true. In what way is evolution theory true--an undisputed fact--again? And what in the world does creation theory--in conjunction with molecular biology, astronomy, physics, and other respective fields--have to do with the Bible? For those of you who make such claims: please stop while your ahead. I have never been able to understand the correlation. Creation theory does have religious "implications," but it is "independent" of religion. Do any of you grasp that concept? Evolutionary theory is being questioned in light of advancements in scientific knowledge, not religious madmen hell bent on converting the world to Christianity. Don't believe the hype.
With all in tow, evolutionary theory is seemingly doomed; the origin of life remains an utter mystery; I mean science hasn't the first clue. And for those of you who have studied with an ounce of integrity, know exactly what I mean. Many state that creation theory has problems. I am not here to dispute that. Evolutionists have problems of their own, and they have yet to explain:
1) how nothing produces everything,
2) non-life produces life,
3) randomness produces fine-tuning,
4) chaos produces information,
5) unconsciousness produces consciousness, and
6) non-reason produces reason.
Again, it is not my aim to get people's blood boiling, I know that for some of you, this was a difficult to read indeed, but I am simply asking for people to be honest. For those of your curious enough to read my last post on the thread "God, or no God," click the hyper link: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=318446&pagenumber=83
Originally posted by ushomefree
[SIZE=2]I enjoy a healthy debate, but have any of you taken the time to read the responses to this thread, not to mention your own, carefully? Frankly--and I mean no harm--the majority of you are presenting empty/blanket statements--providing zero evidence to support your claims. Others simply don't have the slightest clue as to what they are talking about. It is not my aim to make people's blood boil, but enough already!
Oh the irony. Oh the Black voodoo.
If you like I could trawl this forum to find many examples of religious posters doing that, or doing things like "How do I know it is true? The Bible says... How do I know the Bible is true? Well the Bible says..."
With all in tow, evolutionary theory is seemingly doomed; the origin of life remains an utter mystery; I mean science hasn't the first clue. And for those of you who have studied with an ounce of integrity, know exactly what I mean. Many state that creation theory has problems. I am not here to dispute that. Evolutionists have problems of their own, and they have yet to explain:[B]1) how nothing produces everything,
2) non-life produces life,
3) randomness produces fine-tuning,
4) chaos produces information,
5) unconsciousness produces consciousness, and
6) non-reason produces reason.
The creation theory has problems? No it doesn't because it has a big old approved stamp in the form of "God did it." Hard to argue with that logic.
And do you notice that above you criticised others because they, by your standards, provide zero proof, but your proof to support creationism is simply to find flaws in evolution. That isn't really proof you know.
That is just:
"What proof is their creationism is real? Well, evolution can't yet answer how life began. Ergo a = b and creationism is real because it says God did it. I win, God bless you all."
That isn't proof for your theory, that is merely finding flaws in the opposite theory.
And sorry, but since when has biological or astronomical evolution dealt with point 4 or 6 - non-reason produced reason? What the...
Please read my post again; I think you misunderstood my point. First and foremost, I presented questions upon the theory of evolution, but I never went out of my way to disprove it. And I never--by attempting to disprove evolution--tried to prove creation science as victor. Surely underlying tones existed, but I was merely asking for people to be honest when debating.
Re: Pope: Bible & Evolution
Originally posted by InnerRiseI have no problem with my Faith or believing Evolution. 😎
Just recently the Pope stated that it is [B]POSSIBLE to believe in both the teachings of the Bible and the Laws of Evolution.I remember someone else saying this just recently on these boards as well....hmmm...........I wonder who........
Anata Wa Wakarimasu Ka..... [/B]
Originally posted by Badabing
Evolution seems to be very fluid theory. There seem to be many new discoveries and insights which affect and changes theories from time to time. I believe Evolution is sound science but, as you, it doesn't answer all the questions for me.
Fluid in the sense that we're adding to it...but not really changing it. Darwin's initial observations are still scientifically valid under current scrutiny.
...
I like an analogy I read once by an evolutionary biologist (paraphrased):
Currently there is as much reason to doubt the theory of evolution as there is to doubt the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.