SOCRATES vs JESUS{socrates meets jesus}

Started by leonheartmm4 pages

Originally posted by Nellinator
Promiscuity is unhealthy according to everything I've ever seen in medical or psychological literature. Aside from STIs there is an increased chance of cervical cancer for women, promiscuous men apparently have an increased chance of giving sexual partners cervical cancer [1], [2]. Also, I've never met or counseled a sexual addict who abstained from actual sex...
[1] Castellsague, X.; Ghaffari, A.; Daniel, R. W.; Bosch, F. X.; Munoz, N.; Shah, K. V. Prevalence of penile human papillomarivus DNA in husbands of women with and without cervical neoplasia: A study in Spain and Colombia. Journal of Infectious Diseases 176 (2) : 353-361 1997
[2] Agarwal, Shyman S.; Sehgal, Ashok; Sardana, Sarita; Kumar, Anil; Luthra, Usha K. Role of male behavior in cervical carcinogenesis among women with one lifetime sexual partner. Cancer (Philadelphia) 72 (5) : 1666-1669 1993

Here's a quote from the abstract for Infidelity Treatment Patterns: A Practice-based Evidence Approach from the American Journal of Family Therapy; Jul2007, Vol. 35 Issue 4, p327-341, 15p.
" Infidelity is a common presenting problem in couples therapy and can be challenging for therapists to treat."

Or you could look at Recovering from an Extramarital Relationship from a Non-Systemic Approach.. American Journal of Psychotherapy; 2007, Vol. 61 Issue 2, p181-190, 10p.

Apparently health and psychological literature show disadvantages to promiscuity. And I found that with minimal effort. Not once did I see one supporting it.

you IDIOT. i wasnt referring to CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was referring to fornication not ADULTERY. as in having sex without marrying sum1. cheating is a bad things normally pointing towards problems n whatnot on top of hurting ur partner. open ended sex is NOT. when ur not with sum1. and the sources you claim are certainly more obscure than DSM T-R.

promiscuity is not good or bad in itself{and i cant believe you brought that cervical cancer stuff up. there is ZERO emperical or scientific evidence or reasoning suggesting it. sti's are present even in marriage and being safe in sex is a different issue than having multiple pertners} but labelling it as bad is ignorant.

practically a lot of people are not looking for relationships and just hooking up is much easier to achieve. now the fact that its EASIER makes it beneficial, because it is a valid and probable way of releasing sexual tensions and achieving the physical and emotional benefits of sex.

personally id never sleep around. and comitted relationships trump the no emotional attachement one night stands by a long shot. but to judge them and call them BAD is a whole different and completely ignorant thing. again, look at the history of psychodynamics and psychoanalysis. I.D. vs EGO. and repressed i.d instincts turning into phobias and disorders etc. the PRIMARY i.d. instint outside self preservation and perhaps acquisition of food and water is sex. please dont give a biased view of psychology by preferntially quoting form obscure pieces of literature.

utter bull. ur simply quoting the bible which is empty in such claims. your judgement means nuthing to people with broader minds. sexual pleasure in its own is PLEASURE, which harms no1 and is good for both sexes psychologically and biochemically. it helps motivate and satisfy you. and it releases biochemicals which help in being happy and having a positive outlook on life. nuthing shallow about it. the purpose of sex is so much more than procreation, otherwise such a thing as an orgasm wudnt exist! its a very backward take on sex im afraid to say.

No, you're talking about people with shallower minds who need to drown themselves in the material to try and feel good.

Who need to overly indulge in DESIRE to feel good.

That is a pointless, Hedonist existence.

NO desire should be fed passed necessity.

completely and utterly untrue. if that were the case you wudnt see child soldiers fighting in africa or mas genocide in africa/bosnia/south america etc. people are not born good or evil, they are made by their enviornment for the greater part.

Ah, relativism.

Such a broad-minded philosophy that it's utterly inapliable to understanding or founding an orderly society.

And I'm sorry but yes, Nature is more important than Nurture. Genes and the physical construct of the body are at least equal to surroundings to determining how a person acts.

It's not a HUGE difference but the body's inherent nature is slightly more important than environment.


untrue, medically, sex is officially good for you.

Source.


silly rabbit. that wasnt directed towards you. it was directed towards a girl who glorified arranged marriages, death by stoning for adultery/fornication, thought masturbation was terrible and followed the rather repressive faith of islm where women hardly have rights. think before you speak because it certainly wasnt me who looked ignorant there.

You were the one babbling earlier about child soldiers. They aren't good or evil. It's just what they know.

This woman can make up her own mind and knows what she wants. Insulting her and her faith, which is my point, is just ignorant.

Insult a person. Not their faith.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you IDIOT. i wasnt referring to CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was referring to fornication not ADULTERY. as in having sex without marrying sum1. cheating is a bad things normally pointing towards problems n whatnot on top of hurting ur partner. open ended sex is NOT. when ur not with sum1. and the sources you claim are certainly more obscure than DSM T-R.

promiscuity is not good or bad in itself{and i cant believe you brought that cervical cancer stuff up. there is ZERO emperical or scientific evidence or reasoning suggesting it. sti's are present even in marriage and being safe in sex is a different issue than having multiple pertners} but labelling it as bad is ignorant.

practically a lot of people are not looking for relationships and just hooking up is much easier to achieve. now the fact that its EASIER makes it beneficial, because it is a valid and probable way of releasing sexual tensions and achieving the physical and emotional benefits of sex.

personally id never sleep around. and comitted relationships trump the no emotional attachement one night stands by a long shot. but to judge them and call them BAD is a whole different and completely ignorant thing. again, look at the history of psychodynamics and psychoanalysis. I.D. vs EGO. and repressed i.d instincts turning into phobias and disorders etc. the PRIMARY i.d. instint outside self preservation and perhaps acquisition of food and water is sex. please dont give a biased view of psychology by preferntially quoting form obscure pieces of literature.

Really? No scientific evidence? I just proved otherwise. Those both provide evidence. It is an excepted fact. Furthermore, you have sources for nothing, everything you say is baseless and has even less science on its side. Also, not all of those were about cheating, nor were the studies focused primarily on the relationship side. Even furthermore, none of those are obscure literature. The Journal of Infectious Diseases definitely isn't. Neither are the Journal of American Psychotherapy or the American Journal of Family Therapy. So once you have used a credible source I will consider what you say, until then you only appear to be running your mouth on this subject.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Really? No scientific evidence? I just proved otherwise. Those both provide evidence. It is an excepted fact. Furthermore, you have sources for nothing, everything you say is baseless and has even less science on its side. Also, not all of those were about cheating, nor were the studies focused primarily on the relationship side. Even furthermore, none of those are obscure literature. The Journal of Infectious Diseases definitely isn't. Neither are the Journal of American Psychotherapy or the American Journal of Family Therapy. So once you have used a credible source I will consider what you say, until then you only appear to be running your mouth on this subject.

seeing as you can not understand the word psychodynamic, i.d., ego and phobias and disorders as a result of supressing i.d. instincts, im not going to continue this baseless discussion of one sided denial any longer. you are unable to accept sentences formulated on these basics. u didnt prove anything but selectively state extracts from obscure sources. either way the diagnostic and statictical manual 4- tr trumps any such sources you have. obviously u know nuthing about asessing cases or evaluating arguments. otherwise you wudnt be so vehemently and illogically denying known facts. but it really is pointless since you and shin{both bible supporters} are really the only ones talking.

you seem to have missed anythign and everything psychology seems to have found out about instincts and sexuality. in the last 2 centuries.

No, you're talking about people with shallower minds who need to drown themselves in the material to try and feel good.

Who need to overly indulge in DESIRE to feel good.

That is a pointless, Hedonist existence.

NO desire should be fed passed necessity.

i cud make the same argument to prove that blacks are inferior to whites{i.e. the opposition fails to understand that they are talking about shallower minds who need to drown themselves in material to try and feal good} its a biased statement with no evidence. a LOT of desires should be fed past necessity, that is what makes life worht living and makes you feal ALIVE{by the way, love is also a desire if you hadnt noticed. try imposing your rationale onto it and see what becomes of the world} im not saying desire ALONE shud be your entire existance, but it definately is a strong part and shud be.

Ah, relativism.

Such a broad-minded philosophy that it's utterly inapliable to understanding or founding an orderly society.

And I'm sorry but yes, Nature is more important than Nurture. Genes and the physical construct of the body are at least equal to surroundings to determining how a person acts.

It's not a HUGE difference but the body's inherent nature is slightly more important than environment.

simply because you say so and cant make a genuine rebuttal as such? nonsense. nature has been disproven to be more important than nurture. im sorry you have a midieval mindset on the subject. many a times people will flatout deny their most basic natural needs{like you for instance denying sex for the most part} and even commit suicide against the most basic of basic, i.e. self preservation. psychology and sociology are mostly against u here.

Source.

the recommended amount of sex by general doctors and health professional for an average man/woman is atleast 4 times a week. i gave many reason for its advantages before, the fact that it majorly protects against prostate cancer is another one. go ask a doctor for heaven's sake.

You were the one babbling earlier about child soldiers. They aren't good or evil. It's just what they know.

This woman can make up her own mind and knows what she wants. Insulting her and her faith, which is my point, is just ignorant.

Insult a person. Not their faith.

obviously youve never seen people suffer and suffocate because of rrelegion. you also do not understand anything about manipulation and brainwashing. perhaps if you were to see other places in the world youd think differently before proposing such things. people kill thiir own daughters newborn, in the name of relegion/culture and PERSONAL CHOICE. not to mention rape/murder etc. do not deal with such things so trivially if u do not know the facts.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
seeing as you can not understand the word psychodynamic, i.d., ego and phobias and disorders as a result of supressing i.d. instincts, im not going to continue this baseless discussion of one sided denial any longer. you are unable to accept sentences formulated on these basics. u didnt prove anything but selectively state extracts from obscure sources. either way the diagnostic and statictical manual 4- tr trumps any such sources you have. obviously u know nuthing about asessing cases or evaluating arguments. otherwise you wudnt be so vehemently and illogically denying known facts. but it really is pointless since you and shin{both bible supporters} are really the only ones talking.

you seem to have missed anythign and everything psychology seems to have found out about instincts and sexuality. in the last 2 centuries.

Or I do, and you have made no sense of what they actually mean or how it applies to the situation. The fact is that your premise is false. Abstinence from sex is not necessarily suppression of anything. It depends on the justification you have for your actions and choices. It is called self-control and there are many benefits, both social and medical to abstinence. Furthermore, the DSM does not trump my sources. First-off, the DSM is not primary literature, it is secondary literature. Mine are primary literature. That is, original research that help determine revisions of the DSM. Second the DSM is a general diagnosing aid that can be helpful, but is not in all cases wholly accurate and there is much debate over it. And I must reiterate that my sources are not obscure in the least. They are some the biggest journals in the field of psychology and are well respected by psychologists.

The funny thing is that you haven't even sourced the DSM anyways. If you want to trump my sources with the DSM you first have to quote and source the DSM.

All in all, your post is a mockery of scholarship and the research and science going into psychology. I'm now convinced that you don't have access to credible sources and therefore cannot use science in your favour in this argument.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but it isnt jesus who is a moron is it. its the confines of the idology set up by chritianity that make him "that".
True.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Or I do, and you have made no sense of what they actually mean or how it applies to the situation. The fact is that your premise is false. Abstinence from sex is not necessarily suppression of anything. It depends on the justification you have for your actions and choices. It is called self-control and there are many benefits, both social and medical to abstinence. Furthermore, the DSM does not trump my sources. First-off, the DSM is not primary literature, it is secondary literature. Mine are primary literature. That is, original research that help determine revisions of the DSM. Second the DSM is a general diagnosing aid that can be helpful, but is not in all cases wholly accurate and there is much debate over it. And I must reiterate that my sources are not obscure in the least. They are some the biggest journals in the field of psychology and are well respected by psychologists.

The funny thing is that you haven't even sourced the DSM anyways. If you want to trump my sources with the DSM you first have to quote and source the DSM.

All in all, your post is a mockery of scholarship and the research and science going into psychology. I'm now convinced that you don't have access to credible sources and therefore cannot use science in your favour in this argument.

lmao. dsm-tr is THE primary literature when DIAGNOSING mental disorders. you shud also know that NO single claimed primary literature holds a candle to it because the dsm has the axial approach to diagnosing which no anecdotal literature has. what you quested were SELECTED extracts of people supporting ONE SCHOOL of psychology. again i can see by your not mentioning the points about psychodynamic school of thought as evidence for you not acknoledgeing or countering the views on sex of one of the most major schools of psychological thought there is{the others i mentioned}. the psychological approaches pf people like jung and freud{among many many respected others} are IN the psychodynamic school of thought as are all psychoanalytical approaches and the psychosexual stages of human development, plus the concepts of I.D. EGO AND SUPEREGO in the formulation of a human conciousness. i cant REFERENCE THEM any more than i can REFERENCE cognitive psychology, social psychology, humanistic psychology, or medical/somatoform psychology. they are HUGE fields with no single book referencing to them specifically.

and if anecdotal literature alone is enough for reference, out of context and uncritiqued, here goes.

freud. case study of little hans.

boy develops phobia of horses as a result of seeing a horse falling. he also develops an unusual interest in his widdler and interest in toliet functions and sleeping in bed with his mother. the phobia worsens. parents call freud. who converses with father through letter and comes to talk with boy. boy seems to be afraid of threat of castration by mother due to earlier threat by her. shows hostility to newborn sister.
has sexual dreams. starts developing hostility towards father.

freud comes to the conclusion that is is due to repressed sexual longing for the mother and made up threat of motherleaving him. this has turned into the basis for the phobia and symtom substitution would take place if the basic internal conflict between i.d and ego isnt dealt wiht. advises parents to be more understaindign broadminded and less threatening. thye point was to make hans go through a journey of self discovry anf not unhealthily supress his desires{the boy according to freud is unusually lucky as mostly in society such taboo subjects are supressed by guilt etc from relegious/social forces and his parents were understanding and non judemental and took away the guilt}

hans gets over it and this is reconfirmed when at the age of 19 he contacts freud again and has no remnants of the phobia.

this is a very very summarised and rather innacurate version of a very long case study. im sure it beign a classic case n all, that a great psychologict like urself wud know about it, either way, read up and see if it isnt any more CREDIBLE than ur sources, and do think, is such anecdotal evidence alone above the dsm and enough to base a whole wide practical perspective on.

peace brudda. 🙂

No the DSM is not. The DSM suffers from major criticism and isn't useful that often. If that was all that was used there would be many cases of misdiagnoses. However, since you have likely never diagnosed anyone you wouldn't know. There are books that deal specifically with each one of those schools. But I'm not asking for books because those aren't good sources (ie. they are secondary literature). I'm asking for primary literature and if you don't understand what that is then your entire argument of coming from a scholarly perspective is shot. Also, the articles I referenced are not representative of any single school of thought. In fact, most of them are eclectic and take the practical psychotherapy approach. Proving that you haven't access to them despite them being widely accessible to the scholarly world.

Second, the psychodynamic school of thought is progressed so far past any of the ideas that you are bringing up that it's not worth my time to discuss this with you. Second, Freud is not well respected. He is the most the ridiculed persona in the history of psychology. He has done far more harm than good. Everything that he influenced was indirect influence, such as the theory of developmental stages and the existence of defense mechanisms, but his precise ideas are no longer considered valid at all and he was disowned by his own students. Jung is often ridiculed as well.

Third, that case study is introductory psychology. Freud's conclusions are considered laughable. The ideas of penis envy and sexual longing for the mother is so dated it hurts.

No the DSM is not. The DSM suffers from major criticism and isn't useful that often.

fail, it is always used and neglect of use can be grounds for suspension of medical licences and malpractice lawsuits. EVERY piece of psychological literature suffers from major criticism.

If that was all that was used there would be many cases of misdiagnoses.

there are. or atleas claimed to be. but then again a psychological diagnosis isnt similar to a somatoform diagnosis. its nearly impossible for stubborn parties to PROVE either way. that is why different schools exist and multiaxial grading in the dsm exists. it is to tackle the problem from certain ANGLES, be is psychoanalytical/behavioural or medical.

However, since you have likely never diagnosed anyone you wouldn't know. There are books that deal specifically with each one of those schools. But I'm not asking for books because those aren't good sources (ie. they are secondary literature). I'm asking for primary literature and if you don't understand what that is then your entire argument of coming from a scholarly perspective is shot.

true. i am not a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist and wud never give any person a confirmed psychological diagnosis, im not that silly. but then again, have you? and again, what is primary literature????? dsm 4-tr is THE primary source of diagnosing disorders. its called the DIAGNOSTIC AND STATISTICAL MANUAL for a reason.

Also, the articles I referenced are not representative of any single school of thought. In fact, most of them are eclectic and take the practical psychotherapy approach. Proving that you haven't access to them despite them being widely accessible to the scholarly world.

their sources might be eclectic, but your references in question are not. and they are just that, articles, a drop in the bucket. the theories of sexuality and generally accepted view of psychologically healthy sexual lifestyles is a much larger and established thing. and please dont say they take the practical psychotherapy approach, they take the biblically conveniant psychotherapy approach is more like it. and many things are widely accessible and i have read many such material, you on the other hand have never seemed to have gotten literature telling you the general view of sexuality that psychology has taken in the last century or so. theres a reason mainstream christianity/islam etc is against psychology despite claims of reconciliation.

Second, the psychodynamic school of thought is progressed so far past any of the ideas that you are bringing up that it's not worth my time to discuss this with you. Second, Freud is not well respected. He is the most the ridiculed persona in the history of psychology. He has done far more harm than good. Everything that he influenced was indirect influence, such as the theory of developmental stages and the existence of defense mechanisms, but his precise ideas are no longer considered valid at all and he was disowned by his own students. Jung is often ridiculed as well.

really? because client centred psychoanalytical therapy still forms the basis of most psychodynamic treatments. plus the idea of i.d. ego/superego is pretty much intact, there are advances etc, like dissociated/frgamneted ego for psychopaths n whatnot but the basis still exists. the basis of phobias is still accepted to be internal conflict and the psychosexual stages are still extensively references by the majority of psychodynamic adherants. dream interpetation still plays a major part. surely you know all this. cause i just confirmed from a harvard qualified psychiatrist with over 20 years of practice and running a rather large non profit ngo and psychological treatment facility here. infact im pretty sure he said many of the psychodynamic adherants still use hypnosis today. {and this is a psychIATRIST}.

second, freud IS well restpected. and the insult of christian psychologists etc do nuthing to take away from his respect and place in psychology. his ideas were in infancy but not one without a grain of truth to them. its just that his ideas are misinterpreted because people fail ot understand what he MEANT when he said sexual drives etc, since it is different from a layman's definition of such things. you have to understand where he was coming from before his findings can be reconciled with general knowledge as your perspective sees it. as for the claim of more harm than good 😆 😆 😆 😆 , simply because it does not cater to your subscribed morales doesnt mean its harmful. he has done a LOT of good and psychology wud not have progressed without him, nor would acceptance{that you unfortunately fail to see} of sexuality and justified instincts as healthy and necessary be accepted today by psychologists.{or perhaps your not understanding that at the times he voices his thories, the world was a much much MUCH more repressive and suffocating place than it is now. your judgement here is very much biased}. and yes, those ARE his theories, defence mechanisms, they were ESTABLISHED later like much of his work. but they are his nonetheless. only a few followers disowned him, many who left merely believed in more than just his version{jung being an example}. jung is reidiculed, yes, but so was galileo, and to this day, anthropologists who claim the earth is over 2000 years old or evolutionists, yet there is nuthing unscientific or wrong about their claims.

Third, that case study is introductory psychology. Freud's conclusions are considered laughable. The ideas of penis envy and sexual longing for the mother is so dated it hurts.

REGUARDLESS, it is a passage from psychology which you were demanding. and his conclusions are laughable to YOU. it is a fact that the phobia in hans vanished and that he didnt carry the guilt etc associated with it. im not saying i agree with it fully or at all, im just comparing it your rebuttal based on SOLID evidence which comes in forms of selectively quoted statements. penis envy, i agree is one of the few ideas of freud's which has been proven untrue{however i would advice u to read freud's own words on the subject, on how humble and open minded he is when suggesting such a hypothesis, and how much he accepts it is shaky. you might be surprised to the personality of the man which is so often demonised}. as for the oedipus and electra complexes, i think you cant accept that there is sumthing to it because your misinterpreting freud's meaning of SEXUAL ATTRACTION. you can not generalise with freud, read what hes saying. youll understand the meaning behind it by grasping HIS views on the motivational eros and thanatos. simply put, he associated all things PLEASUREABLE in one way or another to sexuality. because he is emphasising more on the fact that they wudnt exist if you were male or female then he is using sexuality as a way of describing sexual lust. similar to his thoeries of why god is often considered male. quite interesting even if you dont at all agree with his point of view.

oh n btw, in the REAL psychological theory, things like intelligence testing garner far FAR more critique and ridicule than the theories of freud of karl jung{little known fact} and yet ontelligence testing and i.q. testing are generally accepted as SCIENCE in the world which thinks they are based in accepted psychology. and yet im sure you wudnt have the same misgivings about these systems because they dnt much interfer with your views based in faith. all im saying is dont be biased and hasty to pass judgement.

Freud has some still vaguely viable credibility in modern psychology but most of his ideas on sex are antique and unused.

So, if you'd like to provide a more recent documentation of how sexual promiscuity is good, it be nice. And if this more recent source isn't a coke addict, that would also be helpful.

And ANY psychologist besides a quack will tell you that indulging a DESIRE passed necessity is NOT healthy.

Jesus, 10 out of 10.

Is there prep?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
http://www.unm.edu/~humanism/socvsjes.htm

http://www.unm.edu/~humanism/socvsjes.htm

has any1 read this/is familiar with this. i think its a nice article pointing out some of the shortcomings of christianity as a whole. interesting and humourous to read too.

Both made up characters. All stories based off of the zodiac.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Freud has some still vaguely viable credibility in modern psychology but most of his ideas on sex are antique and unused.

So, if you'd like to provide a more recent documentation of how sexual promiscuity is good, it be nice. And if this more recent source isn't a coke addict, that would also be helpful.

And ANY psychologist besides a quack will tell you that indulging a DESIRE passed necessity is NOT healthy.

most of his ideas have been ADDED ON , nt destroyed. just like reletivity and quantum mechanics. i never said promiscuity is good in itself, i said there was nuthing BAD about it. and if it helped you achieve other things{i.e. releif, bodily satisfaction, pleasure, etc which ARE harder without promiscuity in certain situations} then it is good. and none of the things i describe come from a coke addict.

actually most psychologists will tell you indulge in desires and passions beyond the necessity for them{including my psychology teacher who is a very able shrink who also happens to run her ngo and the harvard dude i talked about who runs about the only charity psyche hospital here and is a psychiatrist/therapist for over 20 years. i suggest both them and the authors of most psychological literature are quacks}. its about living and making the most of life. they will only tell you to refrain from them if the desires in question are intellectually or physically harmful to you or put you in addictive cycles{although addiction holds only in the most extreme criterion for sex etc in psychology} which are harmful to your mindset for producing non delusional happiness.

please the overwhelmingly large amount of the psychological community isnt as repressive as u percieve them to be. theyd give the opposite advice of what u r suggesting.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
oh n btw, in the REAL psychological theory, things like intelligence testing garner far FAR more critique and ridicule than the theories of freud of karl jung{little known fact} and yet ontelligence testing and i.q. testing are generally accepted as SCIENCE in the world which thinks they are based in accepted psychology. and yet im sure you wudnt have the same misgivings about these systems because they dnt much interfer with your views based in faith. all im saying is dont be biased and hasty to pass judgement.
O RLY?
It depends what you are testing for. Einstein and crystallized intelligence generally didn't mix well. Einstein's fluid intelligence was probably off the charts.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I didn't attach any ego to it. I didn't support IQ tests and I don't really support IQ tests. They tend to be linguisticly and culturally biased and have many interfering factors. They are also inaccurate in certain ranges, they are outdated and pigeonhole children which I deeply resent.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=453752&pagenumber=2
Perhaps you should have been so hasty to make an erroneous and biased judgment. It is ironically hypocritical for you to say that I shouldn't while you are doing it. I am and always have been against intelligence testing and they aren't science because the questions are subjective to cultural bias and therefore are inaccurate representations of intelligence.

Originally posted by Nellinator
O RLY?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=453752&pagenumber=2
Perhaps you should have been so hasty to make an erroneous and biased judgment. It is ironically hypocritical for you to say that I shouldn't while you are doing it. I am and always have been against intelligence testing and they aren't science because the questions are subjective to cultural bias and therefore are inaccurate representations of intelligence.

too bad good intelligence tests have cultural markers now which take out the cultural bias or that is whats claimed. that isnt the only reason and thats besides the point. you forget that i was also on that thread and posted. and still say that you dont ridicule them to the same level as you apparently do jung and freud.

Re: SOCRATES vs JESUS{socrates meets jesus}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
SOCRATES vs JESUS

How much time does each one have to prepare, and what powers do they have?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
fail, it is always used and neglect of use can be grounds for suspension of medical licences and malpractice lawsuits. EVERY piece of psychological literature suffers from major criticism.

there are. or atleas claimed to be. but then again a psychological diagnosis isnt similar to a somatoform diagnosis. its nearly impossible for stubborn parties to PROVE either way. that is why different schools exist and multiaxial grading in the dsm exists. it is to tackle the problem from certain ANGLES, be is psychoanalytical/behavioural or medical.

true. i am not a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist and wud never give any person a confirmed psychological diagnosis, im not that silly. but then again, have you? and again, what is primary literature????? dsm 4-tr is THE primary source of diagnosing disorders. its called the DIAGNOSTIC AND STATISTICAL MANUAL for a reason.

their sources might be eclectic, but your references in question are not. and they are just that, articles, a drop in the bucket. the theories of sexuality and generally accepted view of psychologically healthy sexual lifestyles is a much larger and established thing. and please dont say they take the practical psychotherapy approach, they take the biblically conveniant psychotherapy approach is more like it. and many things are widely accessible and i have read many such material, you on the other hand have never seemed to have gotten literature telling you the general view of sexuality that psychology has taken in the last century or so. theres a reason mainstream christianity/islam etc is against psychology despite claims of reconciliation.

really? because client centred psychoanalytical therapy still forms the basis of most psychodynamic treatments. plus the idea of i.d. ego/superego is pretty much intact, there are advances etc, like dissociated/frgamneted ego for psychopaths n whatnot but the basis still exists. the basis of phobias is still accepted to be internal conflict and the psychosexual stages are still extensively references by the majority of psychodynamic adherants. dream interpetation still plays a major part. surely you know all this. cause i just confirmed from a harvard qualified psychiatrist with over 20 years of practice and running a rather large non profit ngo and psychological treatment facility here. infact im pretty sure he said many of the psychodynamic adherants still use hypnosis today. {and this is a psychIATRIST}.

second, freud IS well restpected. and the insult of christian psychologists etc do nuthing to take away from his respect and place in psychology. his ideas were in infancy but not one without a grain of truth to them. its just that his ideas are misinterpreted because people fail ot understand what he MEANT when he said sexual drives etc, since it is different from a layman's definition of such things. you have to understand where he was coming from before his findings can be reconciled with general knowledge as your perspective sees it. as for the claim of more harm than good 😆 😆 😆 😆 , simply because it does not cater to your subscribed morales doesnt mean its harmful. he has done a LOT of good and psychology wud not have progressed without him, nor would acceptance{that you unfortunately fail to see} of sexuality and justified instincts as healthy and necessary be accepted today by psychologists.{or perhaps your not understanding that at the times he voices his thories, the world was a much much MUCH more repressive and suffocating place than it is now. your judgement here is very much biased}. and yes, those ARE his theories, defence mechanisms, they were ESTABLISHED later like much of his work. but they are his nonetheless. only a few followers disowned him, many who left merely believed in more than just his version{jung being an example}. jung is reidiculed, yes, but so was galileo, and to this day, anthropologists who claim the earth is over 2000 years old or evolutionists, yet there is nuthing unscientific or wrong about their claims.

REGUARDLESS, it is a passage from psychology which you were demanding. and his conclusions are laughable to YOU. it is a fact that the phobia in hans vanished and that he didnt carry the guilt etc associated with it. im not saying i agree with it fully or at all, im just comparing it your rebuttal based on SOLID evidence which comes in forms of selectively quoted statements. penis envy, i agree is one of the few ideas of freud's which has been proven untrue{however i would advice u to read freud's own words on the subject, on how humble and open minded he is when suggesting such a hypothesis, and how much he accepts it is shaky. you might be surprised to the personality of the man which is so often demonised}. as for the oedipus and electra complexes, i think you cant accept that there is sumthing to it because your misinterpreting freud's meaning of SEXUAL ATTRACTION. you can not generalise with freud, read what hes saying. youll understand the meaning behind it by grasping HIS views on the motivational eros and thanatos. simply put, he associated all things PLEASUREABLE in one way or another to sexuality. because he is emphasising more on the fact that they wudnt exist if you were male or female then he is using sexuality as a way of describing sexual lust. similar to his thoeries of why god is often considered male. quite interesting even if you dont at all agree with his point of view.

Not every piece suffers major criticism. That is simply false. Many studies go through peer review with few revisions. And no the DSM is not always used. If you did that you would be a terrible psychologist. When you are diagnosing, you would use the DSM to get a general idea. You need far more specific literature to properly diagnose a mental illness or condition. That is, several primary literature sources over the DSM. Otherwise, you deserve to have your license pulled.

No problems with the second response.

Have I? Yes. Primary literature is basically a scientific article that is the report of a study. It contains original or verifying research and is written by the people conducting the study. Credible primary literature is almost always peer reviewed and published in an established scientific journal. The DSM is secondary literature. That is, a composite that draws conclusions from the various findings of many primary sources, usually in less detail.

LOL. Those reports are take an approach to therapy combining many different schools of psychological thought. It's a fact. Have you even read them? I severely doubt it with a statement like that. Once again you are making sweeping statements about what mainstream psychology supports and yet have no sources whatsoever to back them up. You are basing them on nothing credible. If they exist and you are actually studied outside of what wikipedia tells you then source them. And internet websites don't count because that is not scholarship. Also, not that I did not say sex was unhealthy. It isn't. Promiscuity is. That is what science says.

You are right, not everything Freud said has been thrown out. Why? Because he created the idea of stages which has been extremely influential. However, psychology is moving away from that idea. From a staged development model to a continuous model. Also, Freud's personal stage model is no longer put to practical use (because it is full of holes). Rather the concept of stages that he started was adopted by Erik Erikson who was a neo-Freudian (not a Freudian) to create the idea of psychosocial development. However, even that is being replaced by the continuous model originally put forth by Lev Semenovich Vygotsky and Jean Piaget. Vygotsky and Piaget themselves has many critics and their work has been heavily modified, but they are the true leaders in those areas. Ideas of dream interpretation existed long before Freud and there are many different theories. However, dream interpretation is probably the only thing that Freud really contributed to the furthering of psychology that is considered viable today. His ideas of ID and superego are heavy criticized. Lookup Karl Popper for that one. His ideas of ego and the defense mechanisms are more widely considered plausible or decent. But they still had to be extensively reworked. Freud was not scientific. Nothing he put forth was testable and, therefore, was unscientific. He had a few decent ideas, but he was idiot overall. Also, psychodynamics is a very broad term. Today, it can hardly be associated with Freud. It was been expanded and adapted into something much more scientific than anything Freud or Jung did. Very few psychologists adhere strictly to psychodynamics simply because it doesn't work very well or often. And yes, hypnosis is still used pscyhotherapy, but it is often criticized as well because it has great potential to be harmful.

Next paragraph only gets laughter. Freud is not respected. You have merely proven to me that you are not in psychology circles, or science for that matter. I do not disagree with Freud over moral reasons. See above. Once again, I never said sex has bad, therefore I'm not against science saying it's healthy. I am saying that promiscuity is unhealthy according to science and that being abstinent is not unhealthy. You have yet to source anything suggesting otherwise. I have primary literature stating otherwise. Therefore, you are now given the burden of backing your claims with something over than another long paragraph in horrible grammar containing your sweeping statements and attempts at calling my religious beliefs into a scientific debate where I have never even brought up the Bible or sourced anyone that is a Christian.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Not every piece suffers major criticism. That is simply false. Many studies go through peer review with few revisions. And no the DSM is not always used. If you did that you would be a terrible psychologist. When you are diagnosing, you would use the DSM to get a general idea. You need far more specific literature to properly diagnose a mental illness or condition. That is, several primary literature sources over the DSM. Otherwise, you deserve to have your license pulled.

No problems with the second response.

Have I? Yes. Primary literature is basically a scientific article that is the report of a study. It contains original or verifying research and is written by the people conducting the study. Credible primary literature is almost always peer reviewed and published in an established scientific journal. The DSM is secondary literature. That is, a composite that draws conclusions from the various findings of many primary sources, usually in less detail.

LOL. Those reports are take an approach to therapy combining many different schools of psychological thought. It's a fact. Have you even read them? I severely doubt it with a statement like that. Once again you are making sweeping statements about what mainstream psychology supports and yet have no sources whatsoever to back them up. You are basing them on nothing credible. If they exist and you are actually studied outside of what wikipedia tells you then source them. And internet websites don't count because that is not scholarship. Also, not that I did not say sex was unhealthy. It isn't. Promiscuity is. That is what science says.

You are right, not everything Freud said has been thrown out. Why? Because he created the idea of stages which has been extremely influential. However, psychology is moving away from that idea. From a staged development model to a continuous model. Also, Freud's personal stage model is no longer put to practical use (because it is full of holes). Rather the concept of stages that he started was adopted by Erik Erikson who was a neo-Freudian (not a Freudian) to create the idea of psychosocial development. However, even that is being replaced by the continuous model originally put forth by Lev Semenovich Vygotsky and Jean Piaget. Vygotsky and Piaget themselves has many critics and their work has been heavily modified, but they are the true leaders in those areas. Ideas of dream interpretation existed long before Freud and there are many different theories. However, dream interpretation is probably the only thing that Freud really contributed to the furthering of psychology that is considered viable today. His ideas of ID and superego are heavy criticized. Lookup Karl Popper for that one. His ideas of ego and the defense mechanisms are more widely considered plausible or decent. But they still had to be extensively reworked. Freud was not scientific. Nothing he put forth was testable and, therefore, was unscientific. He had a few decent ideas, but he was idiot overall. Also, psychodynamics is a very broad term. Today, it can hardly be associated with Freud. It was been expanded and adapted into something much more scientific than anything Freud or Jung did. Very few psychologists adhere strictly to psychodynamics simply because it doesn't work very well or often. And yes, hypnosis is still used pscyhotherapy, but it is often criticized as well because it has great potential to be harmful.

Next paragraph only gets laughter. Freud is not respected. You have merely proven to me that you are not in psychology circles, or science for that matter. I do not disagree with Freud over moral reasons. See above. Once again, I never said sex has bad, therefore I'm not against science saying it's healthy. I am saying that promiscuity is unhealthy according to science and that being abstinent is not unhealthy. You have yet to source anything suggesting otherwise. I have primary literature stating otherwise. Therefore, you are now given the burden of backing your claims with something over than another long paragraph in horrible grammar containing your sweeping statements and attempts at calling my religious beliefs into a scientific debate where I have never even brought up the Bible or sourced anyone that is a Christian.


That was not what I was asking for. That was simply a story you can find in any introductory psychology textbook. I'm asking for sourced evidence (ie. from a credible preferably peer-reviewed journal) that is recent (ie. the last twenty years). I disagree with Freud's views because they are not scientific and have no root in science. What they have a root in is his own sexual oddities and his anti-Victorian era sentiments. Some of his conclusions contain plausible ideas, most are idiotic. I have read Freud and he does not carry salt in his arguments. It isn't science, it is conjecture and faulty logic.