I have a question for athiests.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No, I only read an excerpt on the internet. So he says that alturism is genetic? If so, why are there still serial killers around, and why do otherwise "good" people do bad things on occasion? Why did evolution miss those kinks?

I see. So you just made up your own morals, or otherwise decided on some for reasons that weren't already existent. Is there anyhing else that you just decided was right and wrong?

You could ask Why are there still christians who do bad things, why is the Catholic Church Paying out many millions of dollars because the priests commited unspeakable acts to children etc...

The reason morals are simmilar (in my opinion) is that the community you grow up in requires your morals to overlap, at least a little bit. Your parents also help to teach you morals, so your morals must be simmilar to your parents, which are also similar to their parents, which continues through the ages...

I didn't start this thread with the intention of being one of those annoying, idiotic "soldiers of Christ" who tell other people how to live, and that frequent this forum, like JIA, Marchello and Nellinator. I'm far from being an angel myself, and I'm first to admit that.

I'm just asking a serious question and wanna encourage a discussion about morals outside of religion or any set, formulized code.

I find it fun to debate with the "soldiers of Christ" because, even if no minds are changed, I still got to prove some people wrong. I do however appreciate real discussion.

I don't know If i explained the concept very well before... If a serial killer is unmasked in a tribe, his (or her) chances for further reproduction are diminished. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that if you are part of a tribe, or out of jail would be the modern equivallent, you have a better chance to make babies. Those with good morals will be better represented in the gene pool........

Originally posted by Jbill311

I don't know If i explained the concept very well before... If a serial killer is unmasked in a tribe, his (or her) chances for further reproduction are diminished. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that if you are part of a tribe, or out of jail would be the modern equivallent, you have a better chance to make babies. Those with good morals will be better represented in the gene pool........

Using a serial killer is a bad example, since the traits that makes one a serial killer are not inherited from birth.

Have you been reading the teachings of Francis Galton?😬

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Do you believe that it's wrong to kill another human, and if so where do you get that from and what do you base it on? I know its wrong because the Bible tells me so, but where do you get that belief?

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Buddhists need not apply, because I already know that you have a set code of morals and ethics. This thread is specifically directed at those of you on KMC (and there's quite a few) who have no religious preference.

If you notice society, that big thing you are a part of, like most other people, has laws, has reason, has people understanding, be it by way of reason, by respect for the law, by the empathic understanding that "hey, I wouldn't like to die, so other people wouldn't like to die either, thus it is wrong to kill people".

I never needed the Bible to not want to kill people. I like living, I respect other peoples rights to live, and I understand that a human being has fundamental rights and it is wrong to infringe upon them, which includes taking their life.

I'm just asking a serious question and wanna encourage a discussion about morals outside of religion or any set, formulized code.

Come now, morals in religions don't even have set codes - they evolve like all morals. Some are big sure, and don't change much ever, but little changes happen over time.

Using a serial killer is a bad example, since the traits that makes one a serial killer are not inherited from birth.

I agree, but it was what I came up with off the top of my head.

Have you been reading the teachings of Francis Galton?

no, but he is on my list now, thanks.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Funny thing, some guy actually made a thread to discuss what they are based on. Maybe you can find it if you do a search..................wait a second....it is this one. Oh my me.

Then it is supposed to be in the philosophy forum smartass.

Morals could damn near be summed up in stuff you just would not do to yourself.

Examples:

Would you ass rape yourself?

Would you kill yourself?

Steal from yourself?

So on and so on.

Morality becomes complex ONLY when trying to justifying these actions that you would never do to yourself.

Act: Murder (obviously never something you would do to yourself)

Intention is what will decide what makes it "ok."

So if you cover it up with some bullshit like "these terrorists" then it dehumanize the "enemy" and all is well and ok because the intention is to "protect."

I could make this bullet proof but I am far too lazy right now to explain in full. I'm sure someone will pick it up.

Originally posted by chithappens
Then it is supposed to be in the philosophy forum smartass.

Not necessarily, what with the connection people make between morals and religion.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not necessarily, what with the connection people make between morals and religion.

I'll give you that but...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Do you believe that it's wrong to kill another human, and if so where do you get that from and what do you base it on? I know its wrong because the Bible tells me so, but where do you get that belief?

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Buddhists need not apply, because I already know that you have a set code of morals and ethics. This thread is specifically directed at those of you on KMC (and there's quite a few) who have no religious preference.

This is a question based solely on morals. In the philosophy forum, this would get much more respect as a topic. Posting it here seems like a troll topic because it was OBVIOUSLY going to annoy many. Posting in the religion forum SUGGESTS that you do or do not engage in certain behaviors simply because of the fear of damnation (which I will jokingly say is synonymous with love for God).

I'm no atheist but it was an insult to everyone no matter what religion you choose to follow.

As explained later:

Originally posted by inimalist
so what you are really saying is that you would really like to be killing people but the bible says you can't so you don't.

oh, altruism + evolution = me benefiting through not killing you

And the other things that followed. If any person decided not to murder because the Bible/Qu'ran/Torah/etc. forbids it (and that was their sole reason from going cannibal on everyone), then they are a drone. Period.

Originally posted by chithappens

This is a question based solely on morals. In the philosophy forum, this would get much more respect as a topic. Posting it here seems like a troll topic because it was OBVIOUSLY going to annoy many. Posting in the religion forum SUGGESTS that you do or do not engage in certain behaviors simply because of the fear of damnation (which I will jokingly say is synonymous with love for God).

I'm no atheist but it was an insult to everyone no matter what religion you choose to follow.

As explained later:

And the other things that followed. If any person decided not to murder because the Bible/Qu'ran/Torah/etc. forbids it (and that was their sole reason from going cannibal on everyone), then they are a drone. Period.

Perhaps, but I don't necessarily feel so. It is a question based on morals and their source: that is religion or lack of it - ie: My morals come from a religious source, where do Atheists get their morals?

I find it a wee bit twee perhaps (as what is essentially an Atheist) but I respect his right to ask the question. Personally I do find it a little bit disturbing the people who claim their main moral compass is a highly interpretable text from 2000 or more years ago. Or very disturbing. Even more so the people who would like to base political policy on Biblical morality "The sotry of Adam and Eve shows man and women, homosexuality must there for be immoral."

Originally posted by Bardock42
[edit] Why did everyone attack Quiero instead of answering his certainly reasonable question?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Is there anyhing else that you just decided was right and wrong?

Well, I believe that it is wrong to hate someone for their skin color, religion, orientaion, etc. Subsequently, I also believe it is wrong to hate someone for their beliefs, be it racism, anti-semitism, or homphobia. Therefor, I can maintain a friendly relationship with many of my homosexual and homophobic friends.

Originally posted by Nellinator
First thing I thought.

I don't think I attacked him.

May not have, though it seems an innocent and honest question has stirred up something in some people. General observation, not everyone.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Do you believe that it's wrong to kill another human, and if so where do you get that from and what do you base it on? I know its wrong because the Bible tells me so, but where do you get that belief?

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Buddhists need not apply, because I already know that you have a set code of morals and ethics. This thread is specifically directed at those of you on KMC (and there's quite a few) who have no religious preference.

Even before I was Buddhist, I thought killing, torturing, or controlling another human being was wrong. I never needed a book or idealogy to tell me what to think.

And btw, the Bible tells you killing is wrong, but God had commanded the killing, even genocide of many people, so that's a contradictory statement.

As you grow up, you learn about people's pain. You learn the reality of suffering. When you suffer, you realize what it is, and therefore understand that no one deserves this.

You don't need a religion to have a morality, all you need is logic. A religion cannot teach you how to love. Morality comes from yourself, it is your response to the environment. Your response to other people, your response to suffering and joy, your response to creation and destruction, and your responses to social organizations such as religion, school, family, etc. shape your morality.

I can't beleive you are a grown adult, and do not understand that yet.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I didn't start this thread with the intention of being one of those annoying, idiotic "soldiers of Christ" who tell other people how to live, and that frequent this forum, like JIA, Marchello and Nellinator..

I wouldn't clump Nellinator with the likes of JIA and Marcello.

I'd clump him with Feceman and Regret 😛

YEAH!

The question is an insult to me. If anyone else sees it as "innocent" that is a point of view I guess, but why would I need God for morals?

Besides, he used "murder" in the question and then mentioned a broader idea of moral dilemma, but who the hell needs a system of morality to not kill? That's not something you just up and do when a guy takes a pencil off your desk or jumps in front of you in rush hour traffic.

I just do not see the point of the question. Murder is an extreme circumstance for most people. Murder occurs frequently, in that people are getting murdered everyday, but I do not know a murderer? Do you?

Murder is not common enough to ask it as if that's some shit we all go through.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
How can the theory of evolution explain morals? 😬

It would take a while to explain. I'd try to summarize it, but I have the feeling not many would read it. If you're actually interested, read Richard Dawkin's "The Selfish Gene". It isn't about God, or a lack of God, or morals, etc. It's about evolution...and it goes deeper than most lay people understand it, and it elegantly explains how evolution accounts for altruism and selfishness, the base concepts behind ideas like morality.

...

As for attacks that atheists arbitrarily decide on a set of morals, to me (and many others) the moral standards of religions are equally as arbitrary. And you aren't automatically more "correct" because you have the backing of an organized body of people (neither is 'correct' or 'incorrect' in a strict sense).