Forum Rules (read before posting!) UPDATED PLEASE READ.

KMC Vs. Forum Rules

No bashing.
This should be common sense. Don't attack your fellow posters, it won't be tolerated.

No vulgar language.
This will be hard for some of you, but DON'T DO IT. Your posts are subject to deletion without notice for obscene references and vulgarity. THIS INCLUDES IMAGES, GIFs, SIGS, AVATARS, ETC.

No duplicate posting.
Before opening a thread please use the search feature to ensure that a thread on your subject does not already exist.
Here is a helpful link on searches: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/432545_1-how-to-use-the-new-search-function

Search Function
K kids, it's come to my attention that everyone hates the search. But it can still be as powerful as the old system.

Here's what you do:

From the search tab, click on "Advanced Search". It will then take you to a new screen. Click on "Advanced Option" and a few new options pop up. Click the box that says "Search Titles Only" and also the one that says "Show Results As Threads" then run your search.

Works wonders.

Thanks, and spread the word.

How to Use the New Search Function!!!

Report button
USE IT to report any inappropriate posts. Your reports will be seen by other moderators online and action will be taken as the Moderators deem appropriate.

Rules for the matches themselves:

Keep them comic related.

- If there is another forum for discussing the characters, they are banned. This includes game characters, anime/manga, and Star Wars.

- Beyond that, if a character has a regular comic series and is not overwhelmingly viewed in a different medium, they will be allowed. The "primarily viewed in a comic medium" rule is not always in affect, but will be a guideline for moderator discretion.

- All open end question threads will be closed. Examples: Who can beat... Which character could... Who is the weakest/strongest... etc. If you'd like to gauge a character then either make a guantlet or add a list to the thread.

- A character bio should be provided for the character, especially when there are multiple versions of the character.

- Moderators reserve the right to close threads or not allow characters based on their personal disgression. These rules act as guidelines, but exceptions will occur and are necessary if we wish to maintain order and consistency.

The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.

Just post battles here.
This is a "versus" forum. A forum dedicated to comic character matches. Any thread that isn’t a match will get closed.
NOTE: Characters involved in a fight should be written in thread title.

Maximum number of contenders
Let's keep it maximum 5 versus 5, with the exception of teams. More than 5 characters in a match is hard to discuss, threads like that often disappear in 2 days, imagine over 10 characters involved...

(Now, in some cases, an exception or two might be made with some threads. It's usually a judgement call on the moderator's part. But, of course, if a thread has like 25+ characters, it WILL be closed. NO exceptions)

No Spite Threads
Now, a spite thread is usually considered as a thread opened to intentionally be one-sided (because the poster may not like that character, or opened to goad another person into responding, etc.). Moderators will decide if or if not a thread was made out of spite. Spite threads are NOT tolerated and will be closed, and the poster warned (or more severe consequences will be taken if that poster's been warned multiple times).

No “Members” Threads
Forum members should be left out of battles and thread titles unless you have explicit permission from the person and it has been approved by a Moderator.

New 52
If a DC character is involved in a thread but does not have a lot of feats in DC's New 52, then fall back on pre-reboot feats.

That's it people. This is your forum, love it, take care of it, make it shine, make it the BEST versus forum on earth..... but don't ruin it breaking any of the rules above, or KMC general rules: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/misc.php?action=rules

Whenever you have any questions, suggestions, complaints, anything about this forum, PM a moderator!!

Debating Format

Rules/Standard Fight Settings
In most cases, the poster who originally set up the versus fight determines the conditions of the fight itself (ex. If a character like Superman is in a thread, it'll be assumed that it's the current version unless mentioned otherwise by the thread starter, the same goes with Thanos without the IG, and so on). However, in the cases where the original poster did not set down any constraints or conditions for the fight, then the match would default to the standard rules below.

The Battle
Due to some confusion, I will highlight this now. Unless otherwise specified in the opening post, the matches are one fight. The use of a character winning 7/10 is just to highlight a percentage or odds. There has never been anything in the rules which states there are 10 separate fights.

Prep time
Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell unless the thread starter specifies it. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not. For example, Batman cannot shove together an 'anti-Avengers ray' before the fight.

Prep Addendum
Prep time of 10 minutes = 10 minutes relative to the character. So time manipulations wouldn't count for more time. Say Strange went back in time 2 years before the battle is scheduled to start. His 10 minutes would still be running, so he can't just arbitrarily give himself infinite prep time.

In other words, make prep relative to the character, not to their manipulations of time.

Standard Equipment
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.
Beta Ray Bill would not have Scuttlebutt and Batman would not have the Batmobile, unless otherwise noted in the open post.

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman.

Leaving the field
Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power in a reasonable amount of time, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.

No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

*An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

*Clarification on the use of Handbooks*
Handbook entries can be used as supplementary evidence, but not contradictory evidence. That is to say: what is printed in the comics themselves always takes absolute precedence. If a Handbook entry at all contradicts what is shown/stated on panel, then it is inadmissible.

That said, Handbook entries(along with verifiable writer interviews and the like) can be used as supportive/corroborative evidence, so long as they align with the primary/on-panel canon, without contradiction.

No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

Concerning Superspeed
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

Amendment:

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

Unless otherwise specified in the OP, the default battlefield will be a completely flat, featureless, and indestructible plain that stretches from horizon to horizon, with no mountains, forests, cliffs, valleys, rivers, lakes, etc. The only 'feature' of note is the ground beneath the characters' feet. But as mentioned above: it is still always assumed that a character's base powers are active and working to their optimum efficiency in versus matches, therefore this default battlefield would essentially morph to accommodate the characters' powers when need be.

Concerning Threads
There have been too many thread starters trying to change stipulations once the thread has advanced. This isn't allowed.

There are two things which can happen:
1) If the thread hasn't gone too far, past the first 2-3 pages, then PM a mod to edit the opening post to make the desired changes.

2) The original thread can be closed and a new thread made.

This is to avoid confusion and arguing in a thread. People will read the opening post more than they'll search through a 10 page thread to see where stipulations were changed.

Also, if you make a thread which needs edited due to spelling, grammar, etc then PM a mod for the correction.

Thank you and enjoy.

Moderators

Moderators are a group of volunteers who help maintain order on the forums. They help enforce the rules and make sure the forums are a fun place to be. Please remember that moderators are humans and not robots and if they make a decision that you disagree with you cannot argue with them in public. Instead contact them privately to resolve the matter, or contact the Administrator.

KMC Guidelines & Forum Rules

'Backseat Moderating'

What does Backseat Moderating mean?
Let me tell you. When you post "this thread needs to be closed", "close please", "wrong forum", "this person should be banned", "so and so is a sock", etc. This is in fact considered SPAM. Another thing on this same train of thought: It's one thing to say "wrong forum" or "close please" but another to say that after someone else has already said it. That's even worse. Don't post if you think the thread is idiotic, just inform a moderator. We're here to do a job, not you.

The following is what to do in certain situations in our humble forums.

Threads in the wrong forum:
If you really must tell another member that their thread is in the wrong forum then please answer their question or have a valid reply before informing them of their mistake.

If one or more members Reports the thread about it being in the wrong forum, we will take care of it. After you Report, go ahead and carry on with the thread On-Topic, act like there is nothing wrong. A moderator will be by soon enough to move the thread to the appropriate forum.

Posting useless comments such as "move please" "this thread needs moving" "why the hell did you post this here?!? does this look like the *Insert Forum Name Here* forum?" only tend to de-rail the topic and cause arguments before the thread is even in the right forum. Thus it will more than likely be closed.

Duplicate threads:
Kindly inform the member there is already a thread on the subject, and re-direct them if you please. Help them out by pointing out the search button and posting the link to the older thread.

There is no need to be rude to new members who haven't had the time or experience to learn the forum layout yet. We were all in their shoes when we first joined KMC. Acting like a jerk to new members will make them want to leave and/or act like a jerk right back at you.

If someone posts a comment in a "Duplicate" thread saying there is already a topic then there is no need for everyone else to say the same exact thing.

Once again, if there is a duplicate thread: Report it, or send a PM to the forum moderator. We will deal with it by either merging or closing the said duplicate.

Disclaimer
From this point on all 'backseat moderators' caught in the act of doing said actions will get a PM from me. There will be no warnings for this, unless I have to tell you multiple times to cut it out, but I will have some choice words for you.

Here on out I want to see more Reported posts/threads, and less of you guys acting like you own the place. Be kind, inviting, present yourself in a positive way to new forum members. We all want our stay at KMC to be fun and informative. Treat everyone with respect. It's not hard to do.

Credit goes to a former mod.

Reports and the Ignore Function

We all know the VS Forum is the biggest on topic forum on KMC. It has more traffic than most of the other forums combined. That's a hell of a lot of people debating and arguing and disagreeing. Due to the nature of debating, not everyone is going to be able to agree with each other. Everyone has their favourites, and whether that influences their decisions or not, they're still going to be at odds with other people. In recent times, we have been getting a lot of Reports from people complaining about things that just aren't report worthy. As Mods, it is our job to keep the peace, not be a referee every time a disagreement rears its ugly head. People have grudges and vendettas, but frankly, if you can't get over it, reporting the person you don't like isn't going to make a difference. It makes the forum look bad when there are reports that are just taking up space.

If you spot someone GENUINELY trolling i.e. making inflammatory statements, blatantly lying about something on panel, then report them. Do not accuse someone of trolling just because you don't like what they say. That's what the Ignore Function is for. If you are going to be at odds with someone, and don't want to have to interact with them, don't report them secretly hoping they'll get banned or in trouble. Why? It won't work. Put them on ignore instead. It saves both members and moderators a lot of hassle.

To summarise: The ability to Report people is not something that should be done lightly or something that should be abused in any way. It makes the VS look bad, and it makes the members in the forum look bad. You're old enough to post on a forum, and are expected to have the maturity to act accordingly. TRY to work things out between yourselves. If you can't, there's always the ignore function.

Clarification of CIS

Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.

PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.

CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.

While CIS still exists in the form of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also exists in one other form.

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. This is the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weilds them.

In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:

The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience

Those four are key.

Example:

If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.

MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.

However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will use his speed, his strength, his shapeshifting. This is because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believes his standard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civilians are in danger, J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.

Examples:

Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk, so uses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.

Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civilians nearby.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

Spoilers

Spoilers tags should be used whenever appropriate. If you don't know how to use spoiler tags, use the reference below:

[ spoiler ] text [ / spoiler ]
...minus the spaces between brackets.

What is and isn't allowed concerning spoilers:
Not allowed:
- Posting spoilers for an issue/arc/character before it has come out
- Spoilers in thread titles
- Posting spoilers for recent story arcs in threads where they don't belong (i.e. "Batman died" within a few weeks of FC coming out in a thread)
- Using spoilers as a means of annoying a member, essentially trolling them by following them around

Allowed:
- Posting anything about a story once it has come out, in the proper thread.
- Speculation or personal opinion based on inference or knowledge of the character/writer
- It should be considered common courtesy to refrain from posting spoilers for an issue in the first few days after it has come out, even in the appropriate thread. It will not, however, be considered a forum offense to do so provided it meets with the earlier requirements.

Notes:
- Spoilers infractions are a lesser evil on the forums, and will not be judged as harshly as other offenses. However, bashing and trolling behind a veneer of spoilers will be dealt with as harshly as those same offenses in any other circumstance.

- These rules are from Digi's forum. If spoilers are being used in a vs thread, then please alert a mod. We can at least add a "spoilers" tag to the title for the time being.

There are occasionally some discussions that get heated. Some people are frustrated that some users appear to have a devotion to a particular character or publisher, and will not be swayed in their opinion.

[list][*]As frustrating as it may be - so long as they are staying on topic and not launching into a flame war, it is important to remember that they are not breaking any rules - and we are not going to punish them for an opinion. This does not mean people can post biased claims, ignore forum rules regarding full capacity, lowball characters, etc.

[*]However - there is an option open to you: ignore them. If no argument is going to sway them, what's the point in having the discussion anyway?

[*]If you can't ignore them - then you can physically ignore their posts.

[*]If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

[*]Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.

[*]If you REALLY can't stand the arguments another poster made, and you just can't bring yourself to walk away from a discussion once it gets to a certain point, use this option.[/list]

Somewhat linked to the Spoilers section:

While previews aren't necessarily spoilers in and of themselves, they lack a sense of context that only the full comic can usually provide. That's why, from this point on, Previews WILL NOT be admissable as evidence. You want to use the feat? You can once the comic comes out.

Clarification of 'In Character' & 'Full Capacity'

In an effort to avoid any confusion in the future, I wanted to add this information directly to the CBvF Rules. It thoroughly breaks down how we define the 'in character' and 'full capacity' defaults in the versus forum...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Characters, generally, don't self-sabotage to the point that it will cost them the match, nor will they accelerate to 100 in the over-the-top use of their powers, unless it's something you can prove is a habit of theirs.

So, what IS In Character?

It's something that should easily be boiled down to "How a character will react when put in to a specific circumstance" namely a VS battle. How do we know this, or rather, should we know this? Simple: You can name any one of a dozen, if not two-dozen people on this board that could walk in to the offices of Marvel or DC and, like many other comic fans, be seen as having encyclopedic knowledge of a character or a team. The assumption is that with that knowledge comes a level of understanding of said character. If you're reasonably intelligent, and I know a lot of the people on this board are (even if they pretend to be dense as **** sometimes), understanding a character in broad strokes is not that hard.

For example, I've read less than... I'd say easily less than a hundred Spider-Man comics, but if you asked me to describe his personality, I could draw on said comics even without having seen movies or cartoons or even that weird TV show from the 80s, and tell you that Spider-Man is, deep down, just a person trying to do the right thing. He's a genius but also a nerd. He loves his aunt, he loves (or did love) his wife Mary Jane, and he would feel deeply the loss of anyone he couldn't save. That's simple stuff.

Now, if we talk about powers... I know the base-level stuff. I know he can stick to walls. I know he can shoot webs from web shooters he made himself. I know he has a Spider-Sense that warns him of danger. I know he's strong, durable and fast. Strong enough that he has to pull his punches so that a bank-robber's heart doesn't explode. Fast enough that he's not likely to get hit by gunfire. I have read that he's the most agile person in Marvel, though I don't know if that's true or just was at one point. But he does a LOT of flippy shit in his comics. That said, there are probably a bunch of applications of his powers that I haven't the foggiest idea about.

So, with those two in mind, as limited as it might be, I come to the third part: How Spider-Man fights In Character. How do I get there? Simple. As much as I want to be able to say "You go by how the character behaves, not how you would in their place", you still have to fill in the gaps once you take things like PIS out. But, and this is the important part, you are SUPPLEMENTING them. You are NOT. REPLACING. Shit. What you would do with Spider-Man or any other character's powers is great and all, but it's what leads to powerset v powerset, and is for tourneys, NOT for the general board. This part of the point is incredibly important. You are still operating within the paramaters of what a character WOULD do, as opposed to what they CAN do.

Even from reading the comics I've read, which I've already admitted is not that many in comparison to some of the people on this board, I can still say several things with reasonable certainty when it comes to Spider-Man: His superior agility means most enemies will have a hard time hitting him unless they have some hard counter to it like superior speed. He likes to use his webs, which means that character that specialise in melee are going to have a hard time against him, and Spider-Man KNOWS THIS. Because HE KNOWS THIS, he is smart enough to use this to his advantage. This means that because HE knows he doesn't have to close to melee range, that he won't stupidly decide halfway through the fight to try outpunching someone that could out-punch him. Or to waste time on someone that can be wrapped up with one shot of his webs. He can still get close up and win fights, sure, but that's an option, not a necessity.

Obviously, if someone knows Spider-Man better than I do, I'm going to end up getting corrected in threads when it comes to facts about the character, his power levels or his villains if I say something wrong, but the basic idea is still there. I've seen Spider-Man use his webs enough, to be competent in their use, and to avoid attacks while concentrating on his own, to know that at the very least, it's common behaviour. There's a reason "Spider-Man webs up Character X" is a viable tactic on the forum.

"But Pr," you might ask "What if a character has a power that they use more sparingly?". Well, to that I would say:

-Is it a part of their powerset and has been used occasionally enough (ie, like, a dozen times, maybe) that they won't forget they can use it?
-Can they access this power/ability right now?
-Will not using it cost them the fight?

And that right there? That's arguably the most important question.

If the answer to all three of those is yes, then they're most likely going to use the power/ability. Either their opponent can stand up to it, or they can't.

Is that simple enough? I mean, what else do you really need to know?

For the last part of this point, I'm going to use a character I know a bit better: Wally West. Flash is notorious on the forum, and you could say some of it is earned. Most of it, however, is not the fault of the character. If you, as a poster, put The Flash against someone that does not have the means to hurt him, then that is on YOU. It's not The Flash's fault that he's not going to slow down or trip over a branch just to give a substantially slower character a chance against him. And no, no talking shit about the Rogues, btw; they're all designed from the ground up to fight The Flash. They're not ammo for your favourite street leveller to have a shot against him.

If you put Deathstroke up against Flash and try to argue using Identity Crisis as evidence, you deserve to get laughed out of the thread. Like a whole lot of Marvel and DC, you get a writer that writes interesting character studies, or great fights. You rarely get both, and that fight, as entertaining as it was, should have been over before Deathstroke was even able to exhale.

-Now, continuing to use the Flash, and to briefly talk about the Superman Vs Weapon H thread:

A character like the Flash is not going to get hit by someone substantially slower than him unless they have some counter to his powers. Simple as that. Wally West isn't Superman (and I'm going to get in to this in a later post). He can't afford to get hit more than once or twice before it starts to actually impact his ability to win the fight. And this, at the end of all of this ranting on the subject, is where I try to lay it out as best as I can:

The Flash/Relevant Character X will use, at a bare minimum, the least amount of speed/Relevant Power, that he is capable of using under average/normal circumstances, required to not lose the fight, or get so badly injured that it will most-likely cost him the fight. Every superhero or supervillain has a minimum amount of effort and competence that they will utilise going in to a fight. For villains that's usually a higher starting point because they like to not hold back, sure, but the heroes aren't going to be stupid either. They are not going to self-sabotage, and they will not let pride, ego or forgetting they have a way to win the fight to get in the way.

-If you put Flash up against someone that can't beat him without PIS, that's not his fault. That's yours.
-If you put Shadowcat up against someone that can't get around her intangibility without PIS, that's not her fault. That's yours.
-If you put someone up against Xavier that can't get past his telepathy to push him down the stairs, again, that's not his fault. That's yours.

This whole idea of putting lesser character up against ones they can't (and notice I said can't, not won't) beat just because you like them more? I doubt it's going to stop, but seriously, anyone who does it? You're not being clever. We all see what you're doing. You should stop. You'll be better off.

If you read this far, congrats. I really hope this, or at least part of this, has cleared things up for anyone who wasn't sure.

Originally posted by Galan007
I would also add that if the thread starter doesn't want certain abilities/tactics to be used in their thread, all they have to do is specify such in the OP. Problem solved.

We cannot possibly account for every shred of ridiculous BS that certain people might try to argue in threads. All we can do is make blanket rules/generalizations and hope that everyone is adult enough to understand their purpose.