Mace Windu RotS vs. Vader ANH

Personally, I'd have to concur with Manslayer concerning the issue with Mace Windu's powers compared to Vader. He WTFpwned the Emperor's medical laboratory and implements despite being only in the suit for, like, two minutes -- in a fit of rage. He dismantles a bridge in Rise of Darth Vader and uses the subsequent pieces as shrapnel and highly controlled weaponry in his duel with Roan Shryne. He's obviously skilled with the Force choke power, and he collapses a tree that is much larger than the column Dooku dropped on Anakin when Vader fought the Dark Lady.

He is more powerful in the Force, even after the suit, than Mace. Though it isn't a massive disparity by any means, and I have to say that Mace would beat Vader in a lightsaber duel due to Vaapad and Shatterpoint (and when it comes to mental and psychological weaknesses, Vader is a goldmine) and more than likely an all out fight. But it wouldn't be easy, and I do believe Mace would lose a strictly Force fight.

Really, Mace isn't a noob in Force manipulation either, Escape. He effectively pilots a ship in Shatterpoint, using Force pushes to activate firing frequences. He uses the Force to maintain a landslide during a volatile volcano eruption, and uses it even when he's being battered around to ride his own momentum. He uses it to guide grenade launcher shots into the turbines of gunships, and uses it to bounce off walls in the alley and avoid gunfire from a group of professionals. I could go on and on, but you make it seem like Vader is somehow better because in a fit of rage he broke some electronical equipment. Granted, dismantling a bridge in RoDV is pretty awesome, but Mace isn't far behind. In fact, I'd wager that Mace has far more control and practice, whereas Vader has potentially more raw power and rage. But remember Kar Vastor had the exact same thing... and he's nearly missing his hands. So yeah, Mace can out-think Vader all the same.

Mace wins.

Originally posted by kamhal
So know a force scream or a rage attack is force crush?

Originally posted by kamhal

Note: i advise you to stop with the insults because you can't win anything with it since they mean absolutly nothing to me and even worst for you, they just make you looking rude and stupid, taking your credibility for debating.

Originally posted by kamhal

Yeah, Obi-wan easily OPENED a duranium armour.

Originally posted by kamhal

Which this shows you? That mace's force crush was very powerful,

Originally posted by kamhal

in order to let his armour in such weak state. By the way, since you use insults in every single sentence you use, i will start to consider them as a compliment. So, please, you don't need to be so polite in every sentence ok 😆?

Originally posted by kamhal

Then why Vader didn't use the force after maul disarmed him? Hmm...

Originally posted by kamhal

Yet you answered to me again. And i am not using the a>b>c arg, if you can actually learn how to read

Originally posted by kamhal

By the way, my english sucks? First, yours is not that good either,

Originally posted by kamhal

and second, I am not even from USA, UK or other native english speaker, what do you expect? And i didn't ask you to speak fluently portuguese did I?

English or *inglish* as you spell it is an international language. If you want to debate on forums its a must you even learn the language. Weather we know what you call portuguese bears no relevance

Originally posted by kamhal

So, i ask you why i have to subdue my opinions to other people's opinions, and your answer is "Cuz no wants to take you seriously". Lol, look, i am starting to think what kind of person you are because your speech is completly senseless.

Darth sexy, lightsnake, darth sith. NONE of em ever take you seriously

Originally posted by kamhal

And i "lose" a debate? So, what i suppose to "lose"? And you are suppose to win what, a cup or something? And when did i "lose" a debate? Have a nice day once again.

When did you lose? You ALWAYS lose

Originally posted by kamhal

Once again, have a nice day.

Originally posted by kamhal

Insults again? You are so unoriginal. At least change the insult.

Originally posted by kamhal

Hmm, do you want to my IQ? Last time i did a test from IQ i had 13 years old i took 140 from a adult test.

Secondly if you DID have an IQ of 140, you would be able to form cogent and understandable arguements here which you have yet to do and with your "developed" mind as an adult, you wouldnt be wasting your time flinging insults back at the one who throws it at you and brag about your so called IQ

And when you form proper arguements where people can comprehend and understand with your IQ, Then people would take you seriously which in this case no thus refuting your claim that you have an IQ of 140

Originally posted by kamhal

Since them i can surely say that my mind is more developed. If you don't belive just send me a IQ test for me to make, but a dificult one please, the ones on the net are absurdly easy to do. Ah, and i forgot to say, i entered in Medicine this year with a candidature note of 19,3.

Nicetry noobhal, very very nice

Firstly i dont care if your studying medicine or if you got a degree, why? Because no one cares what your are kamhal. Nobody wants to get serious with you because you cant speak proper *inglish* nor type it and you act like your a intellect at debating and when people beat you in an arguement and prove many things, you want to brag false claims about your IQ and studying medicine. Who gives?

You can be smart in some aspects and be very stupid in others. Thats just what you are kamhal. When it comes to simple logical deduction and common sense, you are the perfect candidate for einsteins statement of "infinate space and infinite human stupidity"

Originally posted by kamhal

See what? Have i disagree that Vader>Luke in the force? If you read several points behind i was enumerating the foes that beat Vader. And it's not irrelevant because it shows who vader is reluctant in using the force in a fight,

See? You lack analogy and commen sense

Originally posted by kamhal

which i could use as evidence, saying that Vader would not use the force against Mace as he always did and so he would lost pretty badly.

Seems you do not read what i said to DS yet you tell me to read when you have yet to do that. Hypocrite

Originally posted by kamhal

Do you have good IRC friends? Thank good all my friends are made from bone and flesh and i can actually go out with them to the beach or the cinema 😆

Seems to me that you dont even have friends at all and you always imagine them hence it explains your stupidity

Originally posted by kamhal

For your information i wanted to write "wash you mouth", but somehow your "mother" came out. I apologise for that, because even though you lack education as i already said, i will not put myself in such low level.

Or was than some half ass excuse. The thing is weather you know it or not, YOU ARE on the level i am simply for throwing back insults the way i did.

And lowly educated? Seems to me i know alot more about alot of things that you do weather you like it or not.

Your the one who gives the impression that you dont even have any education at alll

Originally posted by kamhal

Godo to see you ignored the rest of the answer. In that case i will not answer you as well.

Really, Mace isn't a noob in Force manipulation either, Escape.

As originally posted by yours truly in the post above yours, Janus:
"[Vader] is more powerful in the Force, even after the suit, than Mace. Though it isn't a massive disparity by any means,"

He effectively pilots a ship in Shatterpoint, using Force pushes to activate firing frequences. He uses the Force to maintain a landslide during a volatile volcano eruption, and uses it even when he's being battered around to ride his own momentum. He uses it to guide grenade launcher shots into the turbines of gunships, and uses it to bounce off walls in the alley and avoid gunfire from a group of professionals.

I have not implied nor stated that Mace is somehow pathetic or even 'average' in the Force, Janus. To be the only other senior member of the Jedi High Council and "on par" with Yoda himself would suggest a nearly peerless strength in the Force as far as Jedi are concerned at the time. And as far as the feat concerning the grenade launcher is concerned, Luke Skywalker was able to -- as of A New Hope -- to guide two proton missiles into the reactor core of the Empire's most powerful weapon. One could argue that that is miles above Mace's maneuver with the grenade launcher (not that Luke himself is the stronger Force user at that point, of course).

I could go on and on, but you make it seem like Vader is somehow better because in a fit of rage he broke some electronical equipment.

He pretty much destroyed everything operating in the laboratory except for Sidious himself -- suggesting a raw power still well beyond Mace's own level -- if not uncontrolled. The fact that he did this after being in the suit for presumably less than an hour (a limiting suit at that) makes me more impressed.

Granted, dismantling a bridge in RoDV is pretty awesome, but Mace isn't far behind.

As originally posted by yours truly in the post above yours, Janus:
"[Vader] is more powerful in the Force, even after the suit, than Mace. Though it isn't a massive disparity by any means,"

In fact, I'd wager that Mace has far more control and practice, whereas Vader has potentially more raw power and rage.

But remember Kar Vastor had the exact same thing... and he's nearly missing his hands. So yeah, Mace can out-think Vader all the same.

Outthink Vader? That would require further debate. This is the man who ascends to the position of Supreme Commander of the Imperial Starfleet, even at the time when Grand Admirals Thrawn and Zaarin were major Imperial personnel. In sheer intelligence and tactics alone, I don't think Mace is better than Vader. Now, given the shatterpoint charism, that's a different story. But without it? I doubt it.

Mace wins.

He is more powerful in the Force, even after the suit, than Mace. Though it isn't a massive disparity by any means, and I have to say that Mace would beat Vader in a lightsaber duel due to Vaapad and Shatterpoint (and when it comes to mental and psychological weaknesses, Vader is a goldmine) and more than likely an all out fight. But it wouldn't be easy, and I do believe Mace would lose a strictly Force fight.

1. Lightsaber duel- Mace wins after a very good fight, Vader is still very good, but quite far from when he was in ROTS.

2. Force Duel- Vader wins, spent 20 years studying under Sidious, much more in control of his emotions, has better offensive arsenal...

3. All-out fight- Mace wins after a hard match.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
1. Lightsaber duel- Mace wins after a very good fight, Vader is still very good, but quite far from when he was in ROTS.

2. Force Duel- Vader wins, spent 20 years studying under Sidious, much more in control of his emotions, has better offensive arsenal...

3. All-out fight- Mace wins after a hard match.

When does Vader show an offensive arsenal of Force ability, besides choking some of his random officers?

Thanks for bumping an old thread. Go back a few pages, read, if not go to other vader threads

Is this applied to me, because it wasn't an old thread, a couple of days old.

No it was for se7in

Mace crushes vadar. pleases explain to me how vadar wins at all.

Vadar done nothing to suggest he close to mace windu level at all.

Lets see, mace tried to force crush grievious whom was made of duranium and couldn't succeed whereas vader as of ROTS in the suit could destroy palptines entire medical room made of the same material.

For a force fight, its debatable who wins but im going with vader seeing that he has more offensive power and techniques as well as being able to choke xizor when he(xizor) was on coruscant and vader on the star destroyer

1. Mace
2. Vader, easily
3. Vader

I wouldn't say vader beats mace "easily" considering maces strength in the force, i would say a tough challenge.

As for an overall fight it depends, if mace cans stick to a saber duel during an all out fight, he owns vader but if vader manages to keep his distance and use the force, its likely he wins.

I wouldn't say vader beats mace "easily" considering maces strength in the force, i would say a tough challenge.

At least we reach a consense. Seeing people saying that vader would own mace with the force is completly stupid to me.

By the way, I say mace. With his speed, vaadpad and shatterpoint, I doubt vader could beat him. Besides, when it comes to the force he was already showed capable of even deflecting sidious' lightning of "unlimited power" (even though with the help of the lightsaber).

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Lets see, mace tried to force crush grievious whom was made of duranium and couldn't succeed whereas vader as of ROTS in the suit could destroy palptines entire medical room made of the same material.

Couldn't succeed? Mace was simultaneously using Force Jump to keep up with a departing ship and dodging/deflecting blasts from the ship, and actually DID crush Grievous's lungs. Why do you think he's coughing in RotS? Did you even watch the episode?

this fight is a 50-50 fight for 2 reasons.
1) siths tend to be much more aggresive when using the force which may play to vader's advantage in combat. if you saw how he force strangled that guy over the intercom, you would see that he is very agressive in the force which would help him tremendously against windu.

2) windu is 100% organic, and more agile, so if he ever got close. he probably could win. C'mon. luke was only a knight when he beat vader in lightsaber combat and mace was a master.

Originally posted by Se7in
Couldn't succeed? Mace was simultaneously using Force Jump to keep up with a departing ship and dodging/deflecting blasts from the ship, and actually DID crush Grievous's lungs. Why do you think he's coughing in RotS? Did you even watch the episode?

Originally posted by kamhal
At least we reach a consense. Seeing people saying that vader would own mace with the force is completly stupid to me.

Originally posted by kamhal

By the way, I say mace. With his speed, vaadpad and shatterpoint, I doubt vader could beat him. Besides, when it comes to the force he was already showed capable of even deflecting sidious' lightning of "unlimited power" (even though with the help of the lightsaber).

As for mace reflecting palpatines lightning, prove it can reflect an invisible attack of a different property that maifests itself as nothing.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Lets see, mace tried to force crush grievious whom was made of duranium and couldn't succeed whereas vader as of ROTS in the suit could destroy palptines entire medical room made of the same material.

For a force fight, its debatable who wins but im going with vader seeing that he has more offensive power and techniques as well as being able to choke xizor when he(xizor) was on coruscant and vader on the star destroyer

..........al mace did was a quick force crush........which was far from using his entire power..........and grievous for the rest of his life was severally weaken........

all Vadar did was shack a stupid room and it was never stated that it was made out of duranium.

.........vadar done nothing to suggest he has more technigues or power.

for an all out fight vadar would get stomp by mace.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........al mace did was a quick force crush........which was far from using his entire power..........and grievous for the rest of his life was severally weaken........

Originally posted by Battlehammer

all Vadar did was shack a stupid room and it was never stated that it was made out of duranium.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

.........vadar done nothing to suggest he has more technigues or power.

Shut up already

Originally posted by Battlehammer

for an all out fight vadar would get stomp by mace.