Official Critique thread on the Transformers Film.

I've seen you scold people for doing exactly what you are now, so why you're calling me hypocritical is a little odd.

The reason I didn't highlight YOU being admittedly trolled so much is because with all due "respect", you sort of invited it. If you're gonna act as you please, which you have the right to, you shouldn't complain about being trolled. I saw that slight humour underlying your post, which is why my first reply was similar, I'm not attacking you, I just think that as a TF fan yourself, I don't get why you aren't attempting to boost the forum, as oppose to demean it.

Granted, it's in the movie section, but it's clearly populated by a lot of G1 threads, and was inspired by such.

I was just making suggestions, not trying to make you do or not do anything. As I said:

"You made a thread essentially, humourously or not, telling people they were wrong, in denial if they liked it, and various other things. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, I'm suggesting you didn't go about it in the best way, in my opinion.

And by contributing I mean since you're such a fan of the G1 series, perhaps contribute to some of those threads instead of making sure YOUR thread stays at the top, and others trolling you should do the same.".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen you scold people for doing exactly what you are now, so why you're calling me hypocritical is a little odd.

The reason I didn't highlight YOU being admittedly trolled so much is because with all due "respect", you sort of invited it. If you're gonna act as you please, which you have the right to, you shouldn't complain about being trolled. I saw that slight humour underlying your post, which is why my first reply was similar, I'm not attacking you, I just think that as a TF fan yourself, I don't get why you aren't attempting to boost the forum, as oppose to demean it.

Granted, it's in the movie section, but it's clearly populated by a lot of G1 threads, and was inspired by such.

I was just making suggestions, not trying to make you do or not do anything. As I said:

"You made a thread essentially, humourously or not, telling people they were wrong, in denial if they liked it, and various other things. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, I'm suggesting you didn't go about it in the best way, in my opinion.

And by contributing I mean since you're such a fan of the G1 series, perhaps contribute to some of those threads instead of making sure YOUR thread stays at the top, and others trolling you should do the same.".

-AC

boy thats terrific. what about the topic?

unless the implication is that the fate of the forum teeters upon my own will? god i hope not

What about it? "Hahaha I was right"?

I disagree, not much more can be said.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The intent behind this forum's creation was not the movie, as it was largely Scythe's idea. The movie was just incentive.

-AC

Which after much consideration, hasn't turned out to such an expected failure. I mean sure the movie boosted it's popularity, bt TF have been somewhat of a pop culture staple for most things 80's and so and so forth. The movie may not have turned out as to some people's expectations but there's plenty of other books/toys/art/stories that would garner interest.

Things seem slow, but take a good look at all the other movie sub forums.

Time will tell I guess.

Rewatchability is the big factor on how truly great movies are judged.

AC, you have noted, yourself, that the movie's release bought an influx of posting about the movie from a lot of the general cinema going public that may not have had been so familiar with TFs as longtime fans..

My prediction is that once that novelty/hype has worn off and the usual summer blockbuster crowd that you mentioned have gone and maybe a few years later when the next bigger-better-fx action flick has surpassed this, the film's actual content will be more needed for enjoyment.

The movie may look polished, but when I see a rape, Im not concerned about how technically well the rape is being done, Im just like "euuuuurggghhh!!!! Rape!" or whatever.

The holes and weakpoints'll start over time to be more and more naked for all to see. And this'll be seen for what it was.

Merely a polished looking action flick that had similarities/names and a few concepts from something once loved.

Fandom definitely seems split by this movie into two camps, for real.

Its true that Bay succeeded in doing what he set out to do on a relatively small budget for his employers with massive returns..

But it is also equally true that Bay stuck his fingers up at too many things (including the fans) that made TFs great in the first place and dumbed down things to such a condescending level that it will always draw criticism from a hell of a lot of the original subject matter's fans who will feel that as the original run was sometimes superior, that this muchly hyped movie failed them.

As if your audience leaves say, a third of your audience feeling disappointed and that their intelligence has been insulted, then you might say from that POV that the movie was a failure.

The movie is called Transformers yet is oh-so boringly centered around humans that it leaves most feeling swindled. Another failure in many peoples eyes, down to budget, or not.

Its all about points of view.

A truely great TF movie wouldn't have provoked this reaction.

In all fairness, there would have been a reaction like this anyway.

If it was G1 accurate then the general populace would have slated it, probably. Michael Bay wasn't ever going to "win", certain people had the noose around his neck, as I said, at concept art stages.

I think it's just extraordinarily ridiculous to go on about how Bay is "raping" Transformers. It's JUST a franchise, it's not life or death.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
\
If it was G1 accurate then the general populace would have slated it, probably. Michael Bay wasn't ever going to "win", certain people had the noose around his neck, as I said, at concept art stages.

wow, so we're back to this completely fallacious generalisation?
though people were very critical, and (as is the case with myself) were weary and very expectant of the crap churning to follow, we were willing to give it a chance. i would have settled for all the 'new and improved' character designs if they (he) had managed to keep the story within relevance to its namesake. THEY are the story, and humans are secondary characters. thats part of what set transformers apart from the rest. that alone is a complete rape (yes RAPE) of the story. add on weak to nonexistant character developement and any shadow of relevance is destroyed. IMHO

to avoid points relating to that and then to try to oversimplify and belittle the opinions of others to "waaaaa i dont like the way they look because its not like my 20 year old G1 toys" is getting tiring and stale.

I've seen countless tirades against the movie, quite literally saying "IRONHIDE WASN'T RED! PRIME HAD FLAMES! BUMBLEBEE DIDN'T HAVE HORNS!". So f*cking what? Opinions like that do exist, and there are a great deal of them.

This movie largely appealed, or was aimed at, fans of the series and being that it was G1 inspired, a lot of that kind of criticism came from G1 fans. What I don't understand is, Beast Wars made Prime a gorilla, and that caught less flak than him actually having a new paint job.

If you were genuinely prepared to give it a chance, then fine, that's you. I somewhat find that hard to believe given your reaction to the movie so early in its production, but I take your word for it. There are many unlike you. Nothing I've said is untrue simply because it doesn't apply to you, and I'm not referring to you every single time I point out detractors.

As for calling it rape, I just think that's ridiculous, personally. I love Transformers, but it is what it is, and some people are taking it too far. Michael Bay got death threats for crying out loud.

I agree that the humans had too much involvement and it should have been more the bots' movie than the humans', I definitely agree with the point you made above. THEY are the story, and that's one of the negatives of the movie for me too, but I still really liked the movie. I just think people are taking this a bit too seriously in my opinion.

-AC

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen countless tirades against the movie, quite literally saying "IRONHIDE WASN'T RED! PRIME HAD FLAMES! BUMBLEBEE DIDN'T HAVE HORNS!". So f*cking what? Opinions like that do exist, and there are a great deal of them.

This movie largely appealed, or was aimed at, fans of the series and being that it was G1 inspired, a lot of that kind of criticism came from G1 fans. What I don't understand is, Beast Wars made Prime a gorilla, and that caught less flak than him actually having a new paint job.

If you were genuinely prepared to give it a chance, then fine, that's you. I somewhat find that hard to believe given your reaction to the movie so early in its production, but I take your word for it. There are many unlike you. Nothing I've said is untrue simply because it doesn't apply to you, and I'm not referring to you every single time I point out detractors.

As for calling it rape, I just think that's ridiculous, personally. I love Transformers, but it is what it is, and some people are taking it too far. Michael Bay got death threats for crying out loud.

I agree that the humans had too much involvement and it should have been more the bots' movie than the humans', I definitely agree with the point you made above. THEY are the story, and that's one of the negatives of the movie for me too, but I still really liked the movie. I just think people are taking this a bit too seriously in my opinion.

-AC

-AC

the opinions and actions of lunatic fanboys who go so far as to make terroristic threats are not the cross-section of those who dont like the film. so there are people who will never be pleased. agreed. how is this relevant to general opinion? i wish you would stop warping the issue like this. its blatant strawman, ac. setting me apart as the exception does not flatter me or rectify the problem. it just preserves the fallacy.

You like the word "fallacy", I get it.

My point is simply this; like the movie or loathe it, we all love TF in some format, so why not just move to get a subforum where we can discuss the areas of the franchise we do like, or if not, at least make a collective attempt in turning this one into a place where everything can be discussed under the same roof.

Hence why you don't really need to push the forum as dead, dying or a failure. It doesn't need to be, we can all make it work out.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You like the word "fallacy", I get it.

My point is simply this; like the movie or loathe it, we all love TF in some format, so why not just move to get a subforum where we can discuss the areas of the franchise we do like, or if not, at least make a collective attempt in turning this one into a place where everything can be discussed under the same roof.

Hence why you don't really need to push the forum as dead, dying or a failure. It doesn't need to be, we can all make it work out.

-AC

im just calling a spade a spade while you're shooting the messenger.

i LOOOOOOOVE g1 transformers, but apart from links to videos i really cant think of what i would like to discuss. 'how about them transformers, huh? wasnt that a trip...back then?'. the reason this forum is barron is simply because apart from the film there is nothing new from the franchise. thats what drives discussion: new material which spark public interest.

make it work out? you're talking like someone who just signed on to the interwebs for the first time this morning. you know damn well that the success of this or any forum is not up to an individual or small group. people using the googles and finding their way here. thats how this forum sprung from a small group of friends bullshitting about starwars into this monster we see before us. public interest.

I guess it depends on where you go.

There are entire forums for TF, with subforums, and those are successful. So maybe it's the lack of focus or the people here, I have no idea.

I suppose you're right in the sense that TF is best discussed when everyone involved is a fan, such as the TF forums you wouldn't sign up to by chance. Whereas here it's like "I'll sign up to KMC, oh, a TF forum! I also like TF.".

-AC

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Time will tell I guess.

Rewatchability is the big factor on how truly great movies are judged.

It will fail miserably then, because once the effects become dated all that'll be left is an anachronistic Hollywood genericfest, with script and acting courtesy of the KMC Comic Book Versus Forum, and characters with the emotional range of Robocop.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen countless tirades against the movie, quite literally saying "IRONHIDE WASN'T RED! PRIME HAD FLAMES! BUMBLEBEE DIDN'T HAVE HORNS!"

-AC

Hate those people.

i have yet to meet a single one

Originally posted by Schecter
i have yet to meet a single one

Consider yourself lucky. There are die-hard fans out there that b*tch and moan about every little aspect in the TF universe. I know every so called 'nerdy' franchise has 'em, but they give us common fanbase people a bad reputation. They scare off the women also, even though I know quite a few female TF fans. My girlfriend for instance collects the figures, watches the G1 show and loved the movie. Her reason for liking the film: "it was a good movie that entertained." There you go, keyword 'entertained'. If less people took into consideration the fanboyish aspects of the flick and saw it as an entertaining film that didn't soil the good name of the franchise, why complain? Or for that matter, expect so much of it? I didn't expect much of the film except for what I expect from every film and that is to not let me down and be at least enjoyable. Nothing more nothing less.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

A truely great TF movie wouldn't have provoked this reaction.

Idealistic, but naive. Any film made at any time, no matter how acclaimed by the critics, successful at the box office, showered with Academy Awards, will have haters somewhere. That Citizen Kane is pretentious, Apocalypse Now is a mess, the Star Wars Trilogy is childish & cliched, Blade Runner is cluttered & vague - they will say those things somewhere in the world. ONE hater is enough to start a thread here, and because they say so it's true? No - just a person with a opinion is all they are.
You didn't like Transformers, Schecter? Fine. But your thread topic is crapola. The film is a blockbuster smash worldwide, and did better with the critics than the average Michael Bay film, perhaps due to Steven Spielberg's influence. It's is a success and more films will be coming; hence, you are not "right" about anything. You only have an opinion, and are acting like an attention-seeking crank in sharing it with others. Dissenting opinions can be put to use in the general movie thread about this. It's a waste here, because your thesis goes squarely against the facts.

Originally posted by Scythe
Consider yourself lucky. There are die-hard fans out there that b*tch and moan about every little aspect in the TF universe. I know every so called 'nerdy' franchise has 'em, but they give us common fanbase people a bad reputation. They scare off the women also, even though I know quite a few female TF fans. My girlfriend for instance collects the figures, watches the G1 show and loved the movie. Her reason for liking the film: "it was a good movie that entertained." There you go, keyword 'entertained'. If less people took into consideration the fanboyish aspects of the flick and saw it as an entertaining film that didn't soil the good name of the franchise, why complain? Or for that matter, expect so much of it? I didn't expect much of the film except for what I expect from every film and that is to not let me down and be at least enjoyable. Nothing more nothing less.

i need a sensible plot and relevant characters which are at least halfway developed. thats all i asked for. i was willing to forgive MUCH if they had just gotten that right. being a child of the eightees, you'd be surprised at how much cheese im willing to overlook so long as the character developement and story works.

thanks btw for being one of the only people here who has managed to politely disagree with me without going on a trollish crybaby fit, and acting personally insulted. unfortunately however, others have managed to prove that whiney fanboys infest both sides of this debate.

Originally posted by roughrider
Idealistic, but naive. Any film made at any time, no matter how acclaimed by the critics, successful at the box office, showered with Academy Awards, will have haters somewhere. That Citizen Kane is pretentious, Apocalypse Now is a mess, the Star Wars Trilogy is childish & cliched, Blade Runner is cluttered & vague - they will say those things somewhere in the world. ONE hater is enough to start a thread here, and because they say so it's true? No - just a person with a opinion is all they are.
You didn't like Transformers, Schecter? Fine. But your thread topic is crapola. The film is a blockbuster smash worldwide, and did better with the critics than the average Michael Bay film, perhaps due to Steven Spielberg's influence. It's is a success and more films will be coming; hence, you are not "right" about anything. You only have an opinion, and are acting like an attention-seeking crank in sharing it with others. Dissenting opinions can be put to use in the general movie thread about this. It's a waste here, because your thesis goes squarely against the facts.

translation:

"waaa waaaa i dont like your opinion so ill continue trolling, insulting, bashing, and playing ad homenim games. waaaaaa. anyone who has an opinion different than mine is 'crapola' and goddamn you for pointing a gun to my head and forcing me to read this thread. waaaaaaa"

better take care of that diaper rash, champ

Originally posted by Schecter
i need a sensible plot and relevant characters which are at least halfway developed. thats all i asked for.

See, and that to me means is asking alot from any movie. Most of them have recently sucked bitterly to me. It's my tastes, but the last time I saw a 'good' movie in my eyes was Pan's Labryinth.

Originally posted by Schecter
thanks btw for being one of the only people here who has managed to politely disagree with me without going on a trollish crybaby fit, and acting personally insulted.

Oh no problem, there's no sense in soiling one's good name over childish debates that could easily be taken care of in an adult fashion.

Originally posted by Schecter
iunfortunately however, others have managed to prove that whiney fanboys infest both sides of this debate.

Well yeah, but I for one am able to withstand the rants and raves of a TF fanboy. Probably couldn't stand listening to a Anime/Star Wars/Star Trek fanboy, but TF fanboyism is not as bad. Still very, very annoying though...