HK-47 vs. General Grievous

Started by Spartan 0633 pages

General grevious is very strong, but I think HK-47 would be the victor

reason: HK's only weapon is not just an ordinary weapon he also has grenades and an array of anti-droid weapons, as well as a molten cannon flame thrower( as in KOTOR), if HK just used his blaster rifle, than yes GG would waste HK-47

however, since HK-47 was revan's personal assassin droid than he would have had harder alloys.
Hk-47 was so heavily modified that all other hk series were no match for him.

Since general grivious cannot use the force, at the beginning of the fight HK-47 could easily toss a plasma grenade at general grevious feet or a thermal detonator.

General Grevious has twho choices

1. General Grevious could run away but that would create more distance with witch HK-47 could waste Grevious with his rifle, I never observed GG deflecting lasers of any kind in the movies or in the star wars: clone wars animated series he just ran. This tactic works if you are fighting a clone or a human, but not a droid who could track you.
also HK-47 would not be using a normal blaster rifle, he prefers wasting a target over just kiling it, he would probably us a mandalorian Blaster rifle, because they are more powerful

2. after the grenade is thrown General Grevious could charge HK-47, HK could easily counter act ths motion by tossing another grenade 10 feet in front of the first grenade, prompting grivous to jump back taking us back to point # 1, HK-47 would waste Grevious.

HK-47 has extensive assassin protocols as well as extensive fighting protocols.

and Grevious may be able to stike 27 times per second, but wat is his reaction time. if we assume it s that of a normal human he may swing wildly, but he has a very slim chance of deflecting a light sabe let alone 60 blasts.

It depends on how far apart they are standing at the start.

And you need to take into account grievous's speed and his mobility. And you seem to have a great deal of kotor fanbyism HK has nothing on Grievous.

This video shows some battles he was in.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4610594409527512465&q=general+grievous&total=257&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-8Rx-GqJDM
if you really think that HK can defeat him then i want what your smoking.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And you need to take into account grievous's speed and his mobility. And you seem to have a great deal of kotor fanbyism HK has nothing on Grievous.
After seeing his other posts in the forum, I also agree that he is a kotor fanboy.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
And you need to take into account grievous's speed and his mobility. And you seem to have a great deal of kotor fanbyism HK has nothing on Grievous.

Bingo.

Grievous is HK-47's superior in all aspects. He's stronger, faster, and smarter. He also benefits from vastly superior training.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

HK-47 was one of the deadliest assassin droids in the history of the SW Universe. It was not a stupid assassin droid as you claim.

To me he is a stupid droid, I know he's the most sufficiant HK droid out there, but cmon, even with his array of weapons you really dont seem to realize how fast grevious is, and for reaction time, he's pretty pro.

as for KOTOR, i took out that HK-47 guy so easily it wasnt even funny,
i didnt even use the force, i simply hacked him to bits.

Originally posted by Spartan 063

and Grevious may be able to stike 27 times per second, but wat is his reaction time. if we assume it s that of a normal human he may swing wildly, but he has a very slim chance of deflecting a light sabe let alone 60 blasts.

he doesnt strike at the blast, he holds his saber in front of him and spins it with his wrist, creating a shield which will deflect the blasts.

And because of his being a droid, he can multitask this and charge HK while deflecting the shots.

Grevious wins, sorry guys...

Grievous is able to take on multiple jed at once and not only survive but win too. Not to mention in that the second video i posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-8Rx-GqJDM he uses his speed to take out a squad of clone troopers,he dodged multiple force attacks,he keeps pace with an elevator which is moving at a very fast speed, dodges fire from 3 arc troopers, and dodges multiple missiles from a republic gun ship.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo.

Grievous is HK-47's superior in all aspects. He's stronger, faster, and smarter. He also benefits from vastly superior training.

not to mention that GG has what 4,000 years of superior and advanced weaponry

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo.

Grievous is HK-47's superior in all aspects.

I don't think you're giving HK-47 enough credit here, really. In marksmanship, for instance, HK-47 should be considered his far superior, given that Grievous has never demonstrated any great skill in the area nor has his training ever focused on such a thing. The same would go with demolitions and such in general.

He's stronger,

Which is irrelevant insomuch as strength means nothing for a guy like HK-47, given the way he fights.

faster,

Based on what we know, true, however I doubt it would make up for his lack of ability from a distance in comparison to HK-47's if they started the fight far away from each other.

and smarter.

Most likely true.

He also benefits from vastly superior training.

It's debatable whether that "superior" training would truly be able to match HK-47's own (and he was trained by Revan to hunt down and kill jedi, and Grievous is as good as in this case) coupled along with his droid programing which appears to be first class.

I personally think that who wins depends on the circumstances. If Grievous can get anywhere near HK-47, he should take this realistically, but if HK-47 can maybe attack from afar, in the air (jetpack ftw) and use his incredible marksmanship and skill with grenades against Grievous, then I can see him winning this, or even if he attempts to lure Grievous in, maybe setting up a few mines here and there, resuming the attack as soon as Grievous sets one off and catching him in a vulnerable position. I can probably see HK-47 winning this more often than not actually.

Originally posted by Proteus
I don't think you're giving HK-47 enough credit here, really. In marksmanship, for instance, HK-47 should be considered his far superior, given that Grievous has never demonstrated any great skill in the area nor has his training ever focused on such a thing. The same would go with demolitions and such in general.

His marksmanship wont matter because he is fast enough to dodge fire and with him using 4 lightsabers he can have 2 spin like they did vs kenobi and no blaster bolt would get through. And as far as demolitions goes it depends on how you play which is gameplay and gameplay such a s levels and skills are not canon.

It's debatable whether that "superior" training would truly be able to match HK-47's own (and he was trained by Revan to hunt down and kill jedi, and Grievous is as good as in this case) coupled along with his droid programing which appears to be first class.

Grievous had superior training to hunt down jedi. Seeing as how he can use the lightsaber and is fast enough to dodge force attacks. And he would have superior programming than Hk because there is an almost 4000 tear difference in tech.

I personally think that who wins depends on the circumstances. If Grievous can get anywhere near HK-47, he should take this realistically, but if HK-47 can maybe attack from afar, in the air (jetpack ftw) and use his incredible marksmanship and skill with grenades against Grievous, then I can see him winning this, or even if he attempts to lure Grievous in, maybe setting up a few mines here and there, resuming the attack as soon as Grievous sets one off and catching him in a vulnerable position. I can probably see HK-47 winning this more often than not actually.

Greivous wins no matter the distance. (he doesnt have a jetpack) And grenades are pretty useless since the guy has been able to dodge force attacks,and blaster fire a grenade travels much slower and he can just stop when he sees one or go around it. And like HK would have time to set up mines and you would have to prove that he had mines or grenades because he can't be equip with them in kotor. Seeing as how hk is an assassin droid it would make no sense for to have a mines or grenades(still need to prove has them)

This is a complete curbstomp. GG wins without any difficulty whatsoever.

I don't think you're giving HK-47 enough credit here, really. In marksmanship, for instance, HK-47 should be considered his far superior, given that Grievous has never demonstrated any great skill in the area nor has his training ever focused on such a thing. The same would go with demolitions and such in general.

I don't give HK-47 enough credit because I don't believe his assassin-esque tendencies are going to allow him to overcome General Grievous in a conventional versus match? I doubt that marksmanship is going to be a major issue between the General's armor (comprised of superior technology) and his superior reflexes.

Which is irrelevant insomuch as strength means nothing for a guy like HK-47, given the way he fights.

Irrelevant? No. Unless HK-47 is suddenly deposited in a mountain bunker six kilometers from General Grievous's position, I somehow doubt that the General's vastly superior physical attributes aren't going come into play, given that the prodigious strength also continues into his legs and reflexes -- allowing him to perform superhuman leaps and thus able to cross vast distances compared to regular humans.

Based on what we know, true, however I doubt it would make up for his lack of ability from a distance in comparison to HK-47's if they started the fight far away from each other.

If they start the duel at a considerable distance, HK-47 might pull off a victory. Not that it matters. General Grievous's reflexes were superior to the vast majority of the Jedi Order at the time -- and these were beings living in the so-called "prime of the Jedi" and capable of manipulating an all-powerful energy force to enhance their physical attributes. He's faster in speed, he's got superior reflexes, and he has the benefit of being able to use six lightsabers simultaneously (he has repulsorlifts in his legs) -- in any form of Jedi combat he can. His computer analysis even managed to partially download and translate Vaapad, known for its unconventional method of fighting.

In close combat? HK doesn't have a nanosecond before he's dismantled and I doubt ten, twenty, or thirty feet is going to make much of a difference.

Most likely true.

One was a prodigious tactition prior to his shuttle crash, whereupon he was fitted with computers capable of analyzing combat regimens and tactics. The other? A really sneaky droid, which -- incidentally -- Grievous is also notorious for. I'm not a KotoR expert, nor do I pretend to be, but I don't think that HK really compares.

It's debatable whether that "superior" training would truly be able to match HK-47's own (and he was trained by Revan to hunt down and kill jedi, and Grievous is as good as in this case) coupled along with his droid programing which appears to be first class.

It isn't debatable. General Grievous was trained in combat by Count Dooku and sparred with his elite Magnaguards to hunt down Jedi. Once again, in melee and close combat, he is lightyears ahead of HK-47. HK's only advantage is long distance warfare. And first class? HK-47 was "first class" four thousand years ago. Technologically, again, Grievous has him nailed.

I personally think that who wins depends on the circumstances. If Grievous can get anywhere near HK-47, he should take this realistically, but if HK-47 can maybe attack from afar, in the air (jetpack ftw) and use his incredible marksmanship and skill with grenades against Grievous, then I can see him winning this, or even if he attempts to lure Grievous in, maybe setting up a few mines here and there, resuming the attack as soon as Grievous sets one off and catching him in a vulnerable position. I can probably see HK-47 winning this more often than not actually.

This is unsupported. General Grievous, based on merit and feat, is physically stronger than HK-47 by a considerable distance. In terms of reflexes, agility, and speed -- he is also ahead by a considerable distance. He is capable of wielding a lightsaber in a fashion matching any of the seven forms of the Jedi Order -- including Vaapad (known for unconventional combat and, ergo, logically advantageous against someone such as HK) -- and better than most Jedi. He's also a tactical genius fitted with computer analysis capable of granting him the ability to deduce most combat regimens and tactics. And, lastly, he is also notoriously sneaky and opportunistic. He fights dirty, just like HK.

I respect your opinion, but all you've offered in favor of HK are qualities Grievous himself excels at, not to mention that the General possesses even more advantages.

He wins. And in most cases? With pathetic ease.

I don't give HK-47 enough credit because I don't believe his assassin-esque tendencies are going to allow him to overcome General Grievous in a conventional versus match? I doubt that marksmanship is going to be a major issue between the General's armor (comprised of superior technology)

The same armour with numerous gaps that completely expose his vital organs... The armour means little to a marksman as capable as HK-47.

and his superior reflexes.

Tell that to the Jedi that HK-47 gunned down, who not only had superior reflexes, but the ability to briefly see into the future. I see no evidence that suggests Grievous would even possess reflexes in any way beyond a regular Jedi, and thus he's very susceptible to being gunned down by a marksman of HK's caliber

Irrelevant? No. Unless HK-47 is suddenly deposited in a mountain bunker six kilometers from General Grievous's position, I somehow doubt that the General's vastly superior physical attributes aren't going come into play, given that the prodigious strength also continues into his legs and reflexes -- allowing him to perform superhuman leaps and thus able to cross vast distances compared to regular humans.

Yeah, I don't think you quite got my point.

Strength is certainly a great attribute of the General's, and it grants him great abilities like you said (though I'm kinda lost as to how his strength would factor in on his reflexes here), however for HK-47, strength pretty much plays no part in the way he fights, thus forming a comparison between the two in that respect is very much irrelevant.

If they start the duel at a considerable distance, HK-47 might pull off a victory.

Nice to see we agree.

Not that it matters.

Well I only just realised that the TC set conditions for the fight a couple of posts down, and it appears that they wouldn't actually be fighting at too great a distance from each other, but really, it's a cheap disadvantage for HK-47 given he excels at pursuing his target from a distance and forming some kind of plan whereas Grievous is more of the brute fighter that excels against an opponent once he closes in on them. But whatever; Grievous would most likely win.

General Grievous's reflexes were superior to the vast majority of the Jedi Order at the time -- and these were beings living in the so-called "prime of the Jedi" and capable of manipulating an all-powerful energy force to enhance their physical attributes.

Not saying that this might not be true, but could I have proof for this? All that I've ever seen noted about Grievous in comparison to other Jedi is his vastly superior speed and strength, and his unorthodox methods of playing on his opponent's fears, facing them when they're most vulnerable, and catching them off guard, as well as his unique way of fighting. I've never seen anything that suggests his reflexes specifically were on even the same level as Jedi, which doesn't really make sense given his lack of precognition.

He's faster in speed, he's got superior reflexes, and he has the benefit of being able to use six lightsabers simultaneously (he has repulsorlifts in his legs) -- in any form of Jedi combat he can. His computer analysis even managed to partially download and translate Vaapad, known for its unconventional method of fighting.

In close combat? HK doesn't have a nanosecond before he's dismantled and I doubt ten, twenty, or thirty feet is going to make much of a difference.

I would probably agree with all of that.

One was a prodigious tactition prior to his shuttle crash,

True, but military tactics and fighting smarts hardly correlate. HK-47 was taught the smartest and most effective ways of killing jedi personally by Revan.

whereupon he was fitted with computers capable of analyzing combat regimens and tactics.

See above.

The other? A really sneaky droid, which -- incidentally -- Grievous is also notorious for. I'm not a KotoR expert, nor do I pretend to be, but I don't think that HK really compares.

Well as I was saying, HK-47's certainly been trained to fight intelligently, and his pre-KotOR exploits certainly suggest as much, for example the countless times he lured Jedi into mines after initiating combat with them, or blasting entire ceilings apart to trap Republic Soldiers.

It isn't debatable. General Grievous was trained in combat by Count Dooku and sparred with his elite Magnaguards to hunt down Jedi.

Oh wow, so he was trained by a guy who lived in a time with minimal Jedi-on-Jedi action on how to kill Jedi... This compares to being trained on how to take down Jedi by someone who lived in a time where jedi on jedi action was very much more common, how? Don't make me laugh, the training edge clearly goes to Hk-47; sparring droids and training from someone with very little experience of what he's actually teaching wouldn't change that in a million years.

Once again, in melee and close combat, he is lightyears ahead of HK-47. HK's only advantage is long distance warfare.

How about you quit telling me stuff I already know and get right to the point?

And first class? HK-47 was "first class" four thousand years ago. Technologically, again, Grievous has him nailed.

Why must you constantly form irrelevant comparisons? My point is, not only does HK receive first class training which is most likely superior to Grievous', but he also receives first class programming. Grievous doesn't; you can't program a sentient brain. He's no Neo. Both yourself and Hord clearly have no idea what you're talking about with that point.

This is unsupported. General Grievous, based on merit and feat, is physically stronger than HK-47 by a considerable distance. In terms of reflexes, agility, and speed -- he is also ahead by a considerable distance. He is capable of wielding a lightsaber in a fashion matching any of the seven forms of the Jedi Order -- including Vaapad (known for unconventional combat and, ergo, logically advantageous against someone such as HK) -- and better than most Jedi. He's also a tactical genius fitted with computer analysis capable of granting him the ability to deduce most combat regimens and tactics. And, lastly, he is also notoriously sneaky and opportunistic. He fights dirty, just like HK.

Already been dealt with.

I respect your opinion, but all you've offered in favor of HK are qualities Grievous himself excels at, not to mention that the General possesses even more advantages.

I didn't realise Grievous was an expert with demolitions, an expert marksman, someone who possesses and can use a jetpack effectively, someone who was trained to kill Jedi by a guy who lived in a time where this was common, and someone who possesses first class droid programming. Had no idea. 🙄

He wins. And in most cases? With pathetic ease.

In this scenario, most likely, though I think the advantage of flight which HK-47 gains via a jetpack is being very much underestimated here. Sure, Grievous can jump pretty high, but he can't fly, and if HK gets far enough in the air, Grievous pretty much can't do squat except wait to be sniped down.

The same armour with numerous gaps that completely expose his vital organs... The armour means little to a marksman as capable as HK-47.

I see. Because he is a trained marksman, he will automatically take advantage of the 'numerous gaps' that 'completely expose' Grievous's vital organs? Even assuming that we take that as the gospel (which you've yet to provide proof for), it doesn't matter, does it? The General would be all over HK-47 before the hapless droid managed to fire off a single shot.

Tell that to the Jedi that HK-47 gunned down, who not only had superior reflexes, but the ability to briefly see into the future. I see no evidence that suggests Grievous would even possess reflexes in any way beyond a regular Jedi, and thus he's very susceptible to being gunned down by a marksman of HK's caliber

You see no evidence? Tell that to Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was most assuredly well beyond any average KotOR Jedi Knight. General Grievous soundly kicked his ass all over the hangar at the end of their little duel, yet Obi-Wan was a powerful Jedi capable of enhancing his reflexes and strength. Yet it didn't matter. Why? Jedi have to summon their strength from the Force, Grievous already has it on hand, ergo, he is at a physical advantage over most Jedi.

Yeah, I don't think you quite got my point.

Strength is certainly a great attribute of the General's, and it grants him great abilities like you said (though I'm kinda lost as to how his strength would factor in on his reflexes here), however for HK-47, strength pretty much plays no part in the way he fights, thus forming a comparison between the two in that respect is very much irrelevant.

Have you ever actually been in a real fight before?

If my opponent relies on trickery and subterfuge to fight, that's all well and good. Typically, people rely on such things when they're sub-par in physical attributes. To say that Grievous's superior strength is irrelevant is in itself irrelevant because it's clearly an advantage that he has over HK-47. Grievous is a gifted tactition fitted with analysis computers -- a point which I can't begin to stress enough -- who is also notorious for fighting with trickery and subterfuge. I could just as easily say that since Grievous can rely on physical strength, HK's trickery is irrelevant because that might not be the way that Grievous inclines to fight. You see how stupid and unsupported that is?

Nice to see we agree.
Well I only just realised that the TC set conditions for the fight a couple of posts down, and it appears that they wouldn't actually be fighting at too great a distance from each other, but really, it's a cheap disadvantage for HK-47 given he excels at pursuing his target from a distance and forming some kind of plan whereas Grievous is more of the brute fighter that excels against an opponent once he closes in on them. But whatever; Grievous would most likely win.

Excellent. So you've conceded the point. That's all I need. I appreciate the debate. 🙂

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]I see. Because he is a trained marksman, he will automatically take advantage of the 'numerous gaps' that 'completely expose' Grievous's vital organs? Even assuming that we take that as the gospel (which you've yet to provide proof for), it doesn't matter, does it? The General would be all over HK-47 before the hapless droid managed to fire off a single shot.

Again, missing the point. I'm not saying that HK-47 will automatically be gunning him down because of the holes in his armour. I'm saying that if Grievous defends himself, it will be his dodging and blocking ability that does it, not his armour, which really wouldn't make much of a difference.

You see no evidence? Tell that to Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was most assuredly well beyond any average KotOR Jedi Knight. General Grievous soundly kicked his ass all over the hangar at the end of their little duel, yet Obi-Wan was a powerful Jedi capable of enhancing his reflexes and strength.

I asked for proof, not an assumption. How exactly are you in a position to prove that his reflexes even come close to being near Obi-Wan's for him to do as well as he did? Reflexes are hardly a be-all-end-all factor when it comes to fighting, and given Grievous' vastly superior strength and speed, he has a big enough advantage in those factors for him to afford to be lacking somewhat in the reflexes department in comparison. Bottom line: the fight proves nothing for Grievous' reflexes. People with average reflexes have been shown to take it up with Jedi plenty of times before. Now unless you have examples of some awe inspiring reaction time coming from Grievous, or anything that would lead one to such a conclusion, you have no point. Fact is, there's nothing that would lead one to believe that Grievous' reflexes are on par with people who can not only augment them, but who also possess precognitive abilities.

Yet it didn't matter. Why? Jedi have to summon their strength from the Force, Grievous already has it on hand, ergo, he is at a physical advantage over most Jedi.

Yes, this applies to strength and speed and the like, but we're talking about reflexes here. You... do know the difference right? Not to be rude or anything, but given this and other arguments, as well as the fact that you believed that physical strength would somehow factor in on reflexes, I don't think you actually fully understand how they work.

Have you ever actually been in a real fight before?

No, but I once watched two people fighting during lunch break, and I threw food at them.

If my opponent relies on trickery and subterfuge to fight, that's all well and good. Typically, people rely on such things when they're sub-par in physical attributes. To say that Grievous's superior strength is irrelevant is in itself irrelevant because it's clearly an advantage that he has over HK-47.

No, that's not what I'm saying; all I'm saying is that emphasising the superiority is largely irrelevant. Saying that Grievous is strong is all fine and dandy; focusing your argument on how much stronger is very irrelevant. Superiority over his opponent in this respect isn't relevant, the degree of his own strength is.

Grievous is a gifted tactition fitted with analysis computers -- a point which I can't begin to stress enough -- who is also notorious for fighting with trickery and subterfuge.

Stuff I know/stuff I've already dealt with. Moving on...

I could just as easily say that since Grievous can rely on physical strength, HK's trickery is irrelevant because that might not be the way that Grievous inclines to fight. You see how stupid and unsupported that is?

Actually, that's completely nonparallel to what I was saying. To emphasise his superiority in assassin-esque characteristics and abilities over Grievous would be irrelevant, but simply making a case for him by emphasising on how useful it would be in a fight isn't.

Excellent. So you've conceded the point. That's all I need. I appreciate the debate. 🙂

Actually... I take that back; reply to the rest of my argument now please. Point no longer conceded. 😄

You conceded the point. If you don't want to, you need to make a case for HK winning. You've yet to do so. Until such a time, I don't feel the need to keep debating an issue that we ultimately have agreed on: Grievous will win this fight.

Look dude, if you want to back out, just say so. We're all men here [well apart from Darth Subjekt].

Originally posted by Proteus
Look dude, if you want to back out, just say so. We're all men here [well apart from Darth Subjekt].

Make a case for HK and I will be happy to debate it. Otherwise, there's no need to address the rest of your point. If you'd like to construe it as cowardice or an unwillingness to argue with you, that's fine with me.

Oh that was a sick burn wasn't it? You're a loser. You try...try to debate with Escape, and then when your ass is handed to you, you try to switch topics by attempting to attack me with a 5th grade insult...hmm, you're a funny little kid. Grow some nuts.