Originally posted by Darth Extecute
I'd give the Lich King 8/10 after making some research..The soul of Ner'Zhul is caged in Frostmourn, which is the sword of the Lich King.. Therefore I consider his soul safeguarded from being damaged in any way, as the only thing that keeps it from being whole is if the Lich King decide to reject the soul of Ner'Zhul.. Which he did not, as he picked the sword up.. Therefore the soul is out of reach for any theft..
The battle wouldn't end when he turns spectral, as the Frostmourn can strike spirits, hollow and etheral beings..
To walk trough the lives of the Lich King then, in order to compare the two..
He was a master shaman.. Meaning he has the power of restoration, to heal himself and to understand the spirit-world.. He therefore also possess the powers of lighting, water, fire and earth.. He also has spiritual powers to have him evolve physicaly in strength and mind..
He also has a past as a Death Knight and a Paladin, but I dont think I even need to go there as you probably know what it means.. Bringer of undead.. Bringer of life.. Etc. etc..
Also, one hit with Frostmourn and he will both drain health and energy, as well as gain parts of Raziel's powers.. Also, more damage he inflicts with the blade, the more of Raziel's powers he gain..
False, his soul is not in frostmourne, a lot of his power is in the blade, but his soul is in the helmet and the ice, when hes released..his soul is in Arthas so his soul is still fair game. Also whats to say the Frostmourne wont be broken, maybe ive forgotten, havnt played the game for a good long time but i dont remember them saying Frostmourne is invincible, i dont remember it being able to capture the power of its enemies either, only the power of the one who wields it is drained.
Also just because he has been diffrent things in his life does not mean his power stack on top of eachother, first shamans follow certain paths, not all of them at once, obviously he followed a dark path, also was he not a warlock? and ofcourse i know what paladins and death knights are but he stopped being a paladin, he is unlikely to have all the powers of a paladin still, especialyl since his power once he was fully corrupted by the sword was governed by the state of the lich king afterwards and he never used canonwise any of his abilities from the paladin path, so obviously he cannot, since there were often times such powers would be of great use
Originally posted by Burning thought
False, his soul is not in frostmourne, a lot of his power is in the blade, but his soul is in the helmet and the ice, when hes released..his soul is in Arthas so his soul is still fair game. Also whats to say the Frostmourne wont be broken, maybe ive forgotten, havnt played the game for a good long time but i dont remember them saying Frostmourne is invincible, i dont remember it being able to capture the power of its enemies either, only the power of the one who wields it is drained.Also just because he has been diffrent things in his life does not mean his power stack on top of eachother, first shamans follow certain paths, not all of them at once, obviously he followed a dark path, also was he not a warlock? and ofcourse i know what paladins and death knights are but he stopped being a paladin, he is unlikely to have all the powers of a paladin still, especialyl since his power once he was fully corrupted by the sword was governed by the state of the lich king afterwards and he never used canonwise any of his abilities from the paladin path, so obviously he cannot, since there were often times such powers would be of great use
Alright, I missread.. He store souls of others in the frostmourn.. But one thing is for certain.. The frostmourn is indestructable.. It's a weapon of artifact level.. And there's more to frostmourn than the game tells.. You should take time and read books, play the RPG and attend at some blizzard sites..
So, the soul isn't stored in the sword.. But Ner'Zhul is at a much higher level than Raziel.. So, even though the foe that he fights is himself superior in intelligence and power, he still can claim his soul? It makes no sense at all.. That way he could defeat anyone with the snap of the fingers, and Raziel cannot do that..
About the shaman, your playing too much WoW.. Are you debating trough the behalf of WoW and Wc3 alone? Because behind those two games are hundreds and more hundreds of pages of LORE.. Who claims certain things about certain characters..
A shaman is one with a spiritual, elemental and natural link.. And Ner'Zhul was ONE... HELL... OF... A... SHAMAN! Most likely THE most powerful shaman that have ever walked Azeroth trough all time.. And you think he's not capable of handling spells and magic that a basic trained shaman is trained to do? He for chirst sake fooled.. tricked.. He, a mortal, played a game of minds with an Eredar Demi-God.. The lord of the Burning Legion.. A man with enormous wisdom and the Supreme Commander..
Yeah.. By now you've figured out that he fooled Kil'Jaeden..
About the warlock stuff.. I believe you're thinking of Gul'Dan.. He was a warlock.. Ner'Zhul? No.. Shaman..
And Arthas did use the powers of light, even after he got corrupted.. But by time he learnt to love the ways of the death knight instead of the paladin.. He simply forgot the arts that he had learnt.. But as his soul and mind fused with Ner'Zhul and they became the lich king, I strongly believe Ner'Zhul is capable of bringing those memories back into the mind of Arthas.. The knowledge of the light..
Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Alright, I missread.. He store souls of others in the frostmourn.. But one thing is for certain.. The frostmourn is indestructable.. It's a weapon of artifact level.. And there's more to frostmourn than the game tells.. You should take time and read books, play the RPG and attend at some blizzard sites..So, the soul isn't stored in the sword.. But Ner'Zhul is at a much higher level than Raziel.. So, even though the foe that he fights is himself superior in intelligence and power, he still can claim his soul? It makes no sense at all.. That way he could defeat anyone with the snap of the fingers, and Raziel cannot do that..
About the shaman, your playing too much WoW.. Are you debating trough the behalf of WoW and Wc3 alone? Because behind those two games are hundreds and more hundreds of pages of LORE.. Who claims certain things about certain characters..
A shaman is one with a spiritual, elemental and natural link.. And Ner'Zhul was ONE... HELL... OF... A... SHAMAN! Most likely [b]THE
most powerful shaman that have ever walked Azeroth trough all time.. And you think he's not capable of handling spells and magic that a basic trained shaman is trained to do? He for chirst sake fooled.. tricked.. He, a mortal, played a game of minds with an Eredar Demi-God.. The lord of the Burning Legion.. A man with enormous wisdom and the Supreme Commander..Yeah.. By now you've figured out that he fooled Kil'Jaeden..
About the warlock stuff.. I believe you're thinking of Gul'Dan.. He was a warlock.. Ner'Zhul? No.. Shaman..
And Arthas did use the powers of light, even after he got corrupted.. But by time he learnt to love the ways of the death knight instead of the paladin.. He simply forgot the arts that he had learnt.. But as his soul and mind fused with Ner'Zhul and they became the lich king, I strongly believe Ner'Zhul is capable of bringing those memories back into the mind of Arthas.. The knowledge of the light.. [/B]
much higher level than Raziel, once again titles and such cloud judgement in debates, what would say hes much higher level? and how is he superior in intelligence and power?...intelligence yes...power? obviously not becaue he has no defence ofr his soul and would die form it being ripped from him, Raziel cannot be destroyed in teh spectoral realm, his spirit reforms, you would have to swallow his soul completly to stop him, for example the Reaver in the games. So nerzuel will be fighting a losing battle, he strikes raziels physical form and then he just ends up battleing until raziel gets a few reavers through him and drains his essence. Raziel has powers over the elements as well, so his shaman status does not overpower raziel.
Yes Raziel can devour an opponents soul, but not with a snap of his fingers, its through the wraith blade, if it touches its enemies it swallows their souls, its Kain who can do it with a snap of his fingers more or less. Raziel still has TK, telekinetic powers to shackle and manipulate both weapons and opponents, he could freeze the king in shackles and reave his soul, or toy with him by stealing the kings sword and reave him or actually have a combat with the guy, frost, flames..wind blasting the king will be incredible.
ime debating through the games and WoWwiki info, but i do not object ofcourse to you enlightening me with a link to prove certain things, yes i know in the RPG frostmourne is indestructable, regardless of what things say Frostmourne is likely to be so, but is the RPG cannon to the games?
also strongly beliveing things is a fair right, i strongly believe Raziel can win this quite easily because nothing so far could state otherwise, nothing of fact but that doesnt mean anything, its the facts, so we dont know Nerzuel can do this...he would unlikely do it even if he could, he would be unlikely to touch light magic. Hell it would probably bother him to use such things considering what he is.
Originally posted by Burning thought
much higher level than Raziel, once again titles and such cloud judgement in debates, what would say hes much higher level? and how is he superior in intelligence and power?...intelligence yes...power? obviously not becaue he has no defence ofr his soul and would die form it being ripped from him, Raziel cannot be destroyed in teh spectoral realm, his spirit reforms, you would have to swallow his soul completly to stop him, for example the Reaver in the games. So nerzuel will be fighting a losing battle, he strikes raziels physical form and then he just ends up battleing until raziel gets a few reavers through him and drains his essence. Raziel has powers over the elements as well, so his shaman status does not overpower raziel.Yes Raziel can devour an opponents soul, but not with a snap of his fingers, its through the wraith blade, if it touches its enemies it swallows their souls, its Kain who can do it with a snap of his fingers more or less. Raziel still has TK, telekinetic powers to shackle and manipulate both weapons and opponents, he could freeze the king in shackles and reave his soul, or toy with him by stealing the kings sword and reave him or actually have a combat with the guy, frost, flames..wind blasting the king will be incredible.
ime debating through the games and WoWwiki info, but i do not object ofcourse to you enlightening me with a link to prove certain things, yes i know in the RPG frostmourne is indestructable, regardless of what things say Frostmourne is likely to be so, but is the RPG cannon to the games?
also strongly beliveing things is a fair right, i strongly believe Raziel can win this quite easily because nothing so far could state otherwise, nothing of fact but that doesnt mean anything, its the facts, so we dont know Nerzuel can do this...he would unlikely do it even if he could, he would be unlikely to touch light magic. Hell it would probably bother him to use such things considering what he is.
Originally posted by C. C. Cowgirl
Both at their prime!
There's why I bring the RPG and everything else up..
Why would it bother him considering what he is? He is a demi-God, and not the weak kind. A demi-God is the closest any person can come to being a God and you are planning on simply shackle him and steal his soul?
And so what if he can master the elements? So can any mage or shaman in WoW, even though they are at their lowest level.. Knowing the element doesn't make him an all-mighty element master.. So, by you saying he can use fire, ice, water, earth, lighting, light, dark and everything to it, it honestly doesn't mean anything.. For all I know, he can create a fireball, or an icebolt.. Maybe a lightning strike from the skies..
As a spirit, there's no hiding from the Lich King.. He can cut spirits with his sword as if they were physical.. I hardly believe that Raziel can shackle the frostmourne.. It's a sword of highly artifactical level, that's indestructable and bound to the master.. And once the swords hits a person, the Lich King steals energy.. So, if the reavers drain his energy, he'll strike them and drain it back.. Simple as that.. He's a horribly talented swordsman..
And truthfully, I dont care what Kain can do.. We're discussing Lich King versus Raziel.. And Raziel wont possibly stand his ground against him..
So, what does it take? A single, light touch with a simple blade will drain the soul of a demi-God that master the world of spirits?
Oh yeah.. Makes sense..
Originally posted by Darth Extecute
There's why I bring the RPG and everything else up..Why would it bother him considering what he is? He is a demi-God, and not the weak kind. A demi-God is the closest any person can come to being a God and you are planning on simply shackle him and steal his soul?
And so what if he can master the elements? So can any mage or shaman in WoW, even though they are at their lowest level.. Knowing the element doesn't make him an all-mighty element master.. So, by you saying he can use fire, ice, water, earth, lighting, light, dark and everything to it, it honestly doesn't mean anything.. For all I know, he can create a fireball, or an icebolt.. Maybe a lightning strike from the skies..
As a spirit, there's no hiding from the Lich King.. He can cut spirits with his sword as if they were physical.. I hardly believe that Raziel can shackle the frostmourne.. It's a sword of highly artifactical level, that's indestructable and bound to the master.. And once the swords hits a person, the Lich King steals energy.. So, if the reavers drain his energy, he'll strike them and drain it back.. Simple as that.. He's a horribly talented swordsman..
And truthfully, I dont care what Kain can do.. We're discussing Lich King versus Raziel.. And Raziel wont possibly stand his ground against him..
So, what does it take? A single, light touch with a simple blade will drain the soul of a demi-God that master the world of spirits?
Oh yeah.. Makes sense..
Demi-God is simply a tital, many titles are in games, so many and people take them too seriously since as soon as they hear "demi god" or "god" they think they would rule over the opponent, its simply not true. The Elder God is as his name implies has the title of God which is beyond Demi God yet he admits he cannot do anything to Raziel..and the Elder God is a planet sized, ethereal soul feeding entity.
Rubbish about, it wont affect him because his a demi-god/god...whatever it is means nothing. Titles, tis all they are, doesnt mean just because hes a demi-god hes immune to TK shackles..he fits the perfect size for the shackles to link and the shackles are telekintetic force, he wont be able to move. Then he gets reaved.
also Raziel has many useful powers, light energies, would be very effective against a creature of Nerzuels type and his powers are excellent for incapacitating his enemies and do huge AOE blasts for all of them. Its also suspect on wether or not Nerzuel can use his Shaman powers or has them at all...infact its likely he would not due to its only his soul thats the same, even though he "may" have the knowledge doesnt mean he could use it in Arthas' body and theres no proof of him being able to use it as the lich king. Just because Raziel was once a sarafan knight (paladin more or less) doesnt mean he can still use their magic, and most sources point to no since he never does.
yes it can...do you think Zues is as powerful as TOAA all? they both carry the title of God....you think Kratos could beat the Christian God? 🙄 their titles and nothing more, why i cant remember right now the game but there was a character labled a God in it who was nothing compared to the Gods in some games.