Sith Lord Revan vs Grand Master Luke

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
Actually, technically, the narrator could simply be indirectly voicing Yoda's belief on the matter.

"Finally, he saw the truth."

Here, the passage is speaking from Yoda's perspective, referring to what he came to believe.

"This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

It then goes on to elaborate on the "truth" that Yoda came to realise. Given the context, it's very possible that what is described is simply what Yoda believes to be the truth, presented indirectly. Of course, what you've been saying could be the case as well, but it's inconclusive, meaning the quote doesn't really prove a thing.

Second there is a repetition of words in that particular line:
"This truth: that he, the avatar of light , Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it.

And before that here:It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.

The second time is clearly coming from that narrator to describe Yoda at the present time as the "avatar of light" and then it is used again below to describe yoda's power and how yoda realized the new sith can't be defeated through direct confrontation at the time. The only thing that Yoda realize was that the sith could not be defeated in battle at this time.

It is pure common sense which you lack moron, firstly it has well been acknowledged that the NJO don't use the same saber forms save for luke.

Independant Query: Where?

Secondly he learned lightsaber combat from yoda and obi wan, if not, how the hell was he able to even swing one and fight in the first place?

The first part can not be proved canonally.
The second part is very simple. He just picked up his light saber and moved his arms thus moving the 'saber and allowing him to fight. Also if you've watched the movie (which hopefully you have) you'll see that when he fights he really just swings randomly and block's clumsily.

Let alone put vader on his ass when he had gone apeshit?

Because vader or any other duelist can take down anybody who swings a saber like any tom dick and harry where they just randomly try to chop at their opponents with no skill to even know how to take down his opponent.

I believe that in a previous thread it was stated that Luke said that if Vader had been really trying to kill him rather than convert him then he would have died easily.
Also in "Splinter in the mind's eye" Leia is able to lop off Vader's arm and cream him with Luke's lightsaber even though she's never even touched one before.

Everything does not need to be stated because common sense would tell you the answer.

This is not a befitting quote of one who worships canon like you.

One reason is that Darth Exodus believes Yoda is bias to himself and I have not seen any indication of that holding any weight at all.

No one who refer's to thenselves as the 'Avatar of light' is particularly humble.
Also There's no real way that Yoda could know that he's the best ever. How's he gonna contrast himself with people that are dead.

For this thread are we talking about Revan fresh from the Mando wars or the Darkside ending of KOTOR Revan. Because the first one had greater force knowledge but the other one was reputedly more powerful.

Also I've been thinking and it must have been hard as hell to control the Star Forge. Creating Super Battle ships from raw energy is no mean feat.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Independant Query: Where?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The first part can not be proved canonally.[/B]

Hell nebaris may be extremely biased, but even he can construct proper arguments and even have the capabilities to lie and make it sound true.

Your "infinite stupidity" makes him look like a god.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The second part is very simple. He just picked up his light saber and moved his arms thus moving the 'saber and allowing him to fight. Also if you've watched the movie (which hopefully you have) you'll see that when he fights he really just swings randomly and block's clumsily.[/B]

Oh thats right some one of vaders caliber or greater would put anybody who anyhow swings a lightsaber to his ass.

Soooooooo by your logic, i could beat a kendo master by swinging my saber like a dick head without knowing any kendo techniques? Lol your getting more stupid than i thought.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I believe that in a previous thread it was stated that Luke said that if Vader had been really trying to kill him rather than convert him then he would have died easily.
[/B]

I remember advent posting somewhere that despite vader being a great duelist, he couldn't withstand lukes blows, and for luke to be able to overpower vader for a few seconds, it would take skill, and skill does not come from some one who "picks up his saber and anyhow swings it".

Seriously dude, get common sense, hell or even COW sense or better yet, grow a new brain and remove that cock implant from your nose which makes you look like some lunatic who ****s whores through "its" cock looking nose.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Also in "Splinter in the mind's eye" Leia is able to lop off Vader's arm and cream him with Luke's lightsaber even though she's never even touched one before.[/B]

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
This is not a befitting quote of one who worships canon like you.[/B]

Firstly does it need to be stated that a star destroyer is more advanced than a sith warship despite the 4000 year gap? Or will common sense tell you that it is more advance than a ship 4000 years ago?

Consider yourself :

Careful Sylar anger leads to the Darkside.

Lol i was not angry nor will i be, i have been cool the entire time but no worries exodus, i'm not trying to make your blood boil and make you explode.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
[B

No one who refer's to thenselves as the 'Avatar of light' is particularly humble.
Also There's no real way that Yoda could know that he's the best ever. How's he gonna contrast himself with people that are dead. [/B]

If you read my post you would realize that he is called the Avatar of light TWICE The first time is clearly from the narrator and the second time is the one you question and you have yet to show anything that suggests Yoda is bias as at all. The word "he" is being used by the narrator as a substitution to using "Yoda" the truth is that Yoda realized the sith could not be beaten in battle. (It is also worth pointing out that right before and during the duel he is called a fountain of light and a whirlwind in the force. ) You fail yet again

How about a metaphor for you dickens.

Firstly does it need to be stated that a star destroyer is more advanced than a sith warship despite the 4000 year gap? Or will common sense tell you that it is more advance than a ship 4000 years ago?

😆 😆 😆 Thats not even a metaphor you Retard!!

I wave my private parts in your aunties direction you second hand electric donkey bottom biter.

Your moms ass? Brain? Common sense? Or do you lack both?

I was merely inquiring as to where its suposedly been acknowledged. It called having a civilised conversation without having to resort to your infantile and demeaning insults.
This may seem odd as I have only just insulted you myself but to be fair you are a retard.

firstly to be a full fledged jedi, you can't leave out saber trainingright? Or are you just too stupid to even realise this?

You seem to forget that Luke became a Jedi master by default not by merit.

And despite swinging his saber like an idiot, he put his father on his ass whom is an excellent duelist, tell me, if he actually had no idea how to even fight with a saber knowing saber forms, how does he take down a sith lord whom has exceptional skill with the lightsaber or let alone even hold his ground?

You seem to forget that Vader wasn't even half of what anakin was.
Also he'd been out of training for 20 yrs.
Heck even I could beat Vader. Just EMP the bastard.

Revan was a Saber prodigy and was actually tained by lots of competant Jedi. She was a Force Goddess who could create Capital ships from pure energy. She defeated All of the top dualists and fighters of the era and she was a Tactical genius.

Luke struggles to make simple force illusions that 4000 yrs earlier Alema used to defeat entire armies.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
She was a Force Goddess who could create Capital ships from pure energy.

You lie, you lose.

Lol, seeing that you have been owned and lost the debate, now you resort to trolling. Oh and this time you will have your ass handed

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
😆 😆 😆 Thats not even a metaphor you Retard!!

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

I wave my private parts in your aunties direction you second hand electric donkey bottom biter.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

I was merely inquiring as to where its suposedly been acknowledged.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

It called having a civilised conversation without having to resort to your infantile and demeaning insults.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

This may seem odd as I have only just insulted you myself but to be fair you are a retard.

if i actually were retarted. Again are you too stupid to realise this?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

You seem to forget that Luke became a Jedi master by default not by merit.

Again you lack
1)Logic
2)Common sense
3)The ability to acknowledge canon
4)Debate with reason

If you actually has any and i mean ANY one of these qualities, you would acknowledge what has been said.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

You seem to forget that Vader wasn't even half of what anakin was.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Also he'd been out of training for 20 yrs.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Heck even I could beat Vader. Just EMP the bastard.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Revan was a Saber prodigy and was actually tained by lots of competant Jedi. She was a Force Goddess who could create Capital ships from pure energy. She defeated All of the top dualists and fighters of the era and she was a Tactical genius.

And being a tactical genius in a military fight holds no merit in a combat scenario, just because thrawn has been stated to be one of the best tacticians (greater than revan according to almighty gideon and sexy) does not ensure him a win in a H2H fight with mandalore

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Luke struggles to make simple force illusions that 4000 yrs earlier Alema used to defeat entire armies.

Again just to remind you, you have been :

If you actually knew how to comprehend basic sentences let alone read, you would have known its a metaphor, its basically using another example which again you seem far too stupid as your mother has low IQ combined with your pariah step father whoms life is ****ed up beyond belief(molesting young children, ****ing michael jacksons ******* and ****ing his own son in the ass) along with the fact that you were born out of a test tube when your mom wouldn't dare to have proper intercourse for fear seeing that when she was your age or younger, she sleeps around with every guy handsome or ugly and gets screwed to a point where her sexual organs are permanently damage only to be worsensed when you FF(if you actually know what that means considering your level of intelligence) her.

Yeah well I am rubber and you are glue, it bounces off me and sticks to you. 😛 😛 😛 😛

Seriously though your pathetic attempts to irritate me are as pointless as they are time wasting. Allyour doing is making yourself look crazy and me laugh. 🤣 😂
And what kind of sicko think's of all that? I was cool with your brain fetish but this is a step too far. Get some damn theropy for sith's sake.

Waving your deformed penis at my aunts is nothing compared to you screwing your half blooded mom in her already-damaged-sex-organs.

😂 😂 😂

I thought that you'd get the reference but it's obviously too cultured for your plebian, rodent brain. See if you can get that one.

Competant jedi? Sorry but revans incredible strength came mostly from either kreia or malachor V. And just who are these "Top duelists"? Malak? Maybe but who else?

Don't knock Kriea. "her insight of both light and dark side remains impartial, and is noted that her visions are amazingly accurate where she predicted events 4000 years later after her death"- Wikipedia.
And there are numerous other claim's of Revan strength.
Malak, Mandalore, Usanis, Calo Nord, Bastila( pumped-up), 2 taranterek etc.

and your so stupid to an extent where i know actually worship the N-men or better known as nebaris.

umm... What?
Don't you mean now.

used insults because it was necessary. OH WAIT! How is it an insult when its a FACT? You ARE an idiot dickens.

Dicken's isn't even a proper word, just a famous writer. If your going to do something do it right.

You lie, you lose

I was talking about the Star forge.

Right and NJO luke could easily use illusions to cloak an ENTIRE planet from his enemies with not much effort. You FAIL!

If you had read "The Unseen queen" then you would know how much effort it took Luke to create a simple illusion of a ship. When compared to some of Alema's feat's, illusion of massive, fleet-sized capital ship, then you see how big of a power difference there is.

You "Think" you can beat him but the real question is, if its so easy, why does he pwn 20 over wookies, wtf own 4-5 jedi knights at once

Becuase none of them have such an in-depth knowledge of Vader as myself.

You seem to forget luke become a jedi master by actually learning about the force and learning to master it going through the basic standard training which has been passed down for thousands of years, if luke were to be the last jedi and yoda and obi wan training him, they would OBVIOUSLY teach him what has been passed down for the last thousands of years.

Actually at the end of ROTS Obi wan said that they should train the twin's conventionally and Yoda say's no.
Also your pathetic attempts to side step the issue has finally bored me. Stop trying to ignore the fact that you can't prove that Luke know's any form's and that he has limited knowledge of the Force.

Firstly does it need to be stated that a star destroyer is more advanced than a sith warship despite the 4000 year gap? Or will common sense tell you that it is more advance than a ship 4000 years ago?

I see the point of your non-metaphor. However there have been dispariging remark's made about how the new stacks up. Tulak Hord for instance. And the Fact that the Ancient-Sith had immortality. Thing's get lost over time.

Revan take's the cup and Luke discovers his blatent homosexuality.

i'm actually retarted,

Stop under exaggerating 😒 🤪

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

I was talking about the Star forge.

No you said Revan was force god who created that created capital ships from pure energy. HE didn't do it the star forge did so gets no credit for the actual creation of the ships.

I see the point of your non-metaphor. However there have been dispariging remark's made about how the new stacks up. Tulak Hord for instance. And the Fact that the Ancient-Sith had immortality. Thing's get lost over time.

I'm going to have see more than one sentence calling Tulak Hord and the ancient sith "teh uber saber godz" before they can be confirmed to be. We only see one duel between ancient sith (sadow vs kreesh) and they didn't use sabers. Besides for the fact Kreia has shown anything to say she saw the ancient sith battle. So until we actually SEE them in combat is very retarded to say the pwn people the likes of Kun,Bane,Mace,Sids.,Luke,Yoda,Jacen,etc. Much less actually win. Tulak Hord is to big of a mystery so mentioning will not help your arguement of Revan beating Luke at all.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Yeah well I am rubber and you are glue, it bounces off me and sticks to you. 😛 😛 😛 😛

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Seriously though your pathetic attempts to irritate me are as pointless as they are time wasting.

Secondly how am i suppose to "irritate" you when you can't even comprehend nor understand whats being thrown at you due to your level of intelligence?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Allyour doing is making yourself look crazy and me laugh. 🤣 😂

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

And what kind of sicko think's of all that? I was cool with your brain fetish but this is a step too far. Get some damn theropy for sith's sake.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

I thought that you'd get the reference but it's obviously too cultured for your plebian, rodent brain. See if you can get that one.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Don't knock Kriea. "her insight of both light and dark side remains impartial, and is noted that her visions are amazingly accurate where she predicted events 4000 years later after her death"- Wikipedia.

Seriously learn to read.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

And there are numerous other claim's of Revan strength.
Malak,

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Mandalore, Usanis,

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Calo Nord

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
, Bastila( pumped-up),

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

2 taranterek etc.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

umm... What?
Don't you mean now.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Dicken's isn't even a proper word, just a famous writer. If your going to do something do it right.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

If you had read "The Unseen queen" then you would know how much effort it took Luke to create a simple illusion of a ship. When compared to some of Alema's feat's, illusion of massive, fleet-sized capital ship, then you see how big of a power difference there is.

Well according to your friend wookipedia, it stated this During the early days of the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke used the Force to generate a lifelike copy of the Jade Shadow to fool the attacking dartships. This usage of the Force was so extreme, Luke burnt out and his face was temporarily sunken and shriveled like Palpatine's. A year later Luke applied the same trick on the DR919a, by then Luke already mastered the technique and would no longer burn out.

Seriously there really is no "power difference" considering the fact that aleema is a weakling and luke performing a technique he has never even once used before, again a year later luke mastered this technique to a higher degree than aleema.

Oh wait aleema merely mindtricked a few people with sith magic that both nadd and kun mastered to the highest degrees whereas luke actually created the illusions which display far grater power.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Becuase none of them have such an in-depth knowledge of Vader as myself.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Actually at the end of ROTS Obi wan said that they should train the twin's conventionally and Yoda say's no.

Yoda merely said they shouldnt be trained together and should be split up and then be trained when the time is right

Continued....

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Also your pathetic attempts to side step the issue has finally bored me. Stop trying to ignore the fact that you can't prove that Luke know's any form's and that he has limited knowledge of the Force.

Oh wait, your friend WOOKIEPEDIA says this.

Force Sense

* During the Battle of Yavin, Luke managed to destroy the first Death Star by letting the Force tell him when to fire his proton torpedoes, while traveling at very high speeds, and not knowing the distance to the port, and having no previous knowledge of proton torpedoes and their abilities. One should note that Luke only had little training with the Force at this time.

* Luke managed to land a crashing Imperial Star Destroyer, with almost no loss of life, on Coruscant by allowing the Force to guide him at the Liberator's controls, mirroring a similar achievement by his father towards the end of the Clone Wars.[104][105][106]

Force Attunement

* Without any guidance except a handbook left by Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker successfully built his first lightsaber, merely three years after he was first introduced to the Force, and undergoing formal training for less than a year.

* Only a short time after being given a lightsaber by Obi-Wan, Luke was able to instinctively block several blaster bolts fired in rapid succession by a remote, despite his lack of prolonged formal training.

* Luke safely landed himself, Isolder, and Isolder's fighter from a free fall drop from orbit with the Force.

* During the Battle of Dathomir, Luke flew the Millennium Falcon single-handedly using only the Force, manipulating its controls and operating it with a skill that not even a full crew could manage.

* Luke was able to knock down a crippled AT-AT by pressing against it with the Force; he also absorbed the initial cannon blasts from the AT-AT, before deflecting the rest with his lightsaber.[104][105]

* During the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke used the Force to rebuild Darth Vader's old fortress on Coruscant and made it invisible.[107] In addition, Luke used the Force to crush the rebuilt fortress of Darth Vader to rubble, shattering the building piece by piece and throwing it into the oceans of Coruscant.[108]

* During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own void (black hole) against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle.[82]

Revitalize

* In the battle between the Singing Mountain Clan and the Nightsisters, Luke was almost fatally wounded by a Force attack by Gethzerion and a deep fall, but regenerated in the span of mere hours.

Droid Disable

* Luke also destroyed a group of hot-wired battle droids just by waving his hand, subtly displacing their master servos and causing the self-destruction of the group of droids.[104][105] This Force power was first manifested by Jedi Master Arca Jeth during the Great Droid Revolution. Even then, with proper instruction, it was a difficult power to master. However, this power apparently came naturally to Luke.

Force Protection

* During the time when he was re-creating the Jedi Order and was searching for potential candidates, he walked on lava while still throbbing with the Force after defeating a Fireworm living in the lava just moments before.[57] Luke's performance impressed Gantoris so much that he decided to become Luke's apprentice. It should be noted that while the temperature near a lava lake normally is extreme (hundreds of °C), there was a crowd of abandoned colonists in tattered clothing waiting at the bank of the lava, suggesting that the feat was not so remarkable after all.

* During the Eye of Palpatine incident, Luke subconsciously used his Force powers to overcome a particularly vicious form of brainwashing.

Telepathy

* During the Death Seed Plague, Luke used the Force to communicate with the sentient crystals Tsils. It is important to remember that the more dissimilar the type of mind, the more difficult it is to communicate with via the Force.

* Toward the end of the Swarm War, Luke used the Force to call all the Jedi across the galaxy to Ossus to make the announcement of him taking on the role as Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and to issue his views about the role of the Order to his Jedi.

Protection Bubble

* Luke could generate a Force shield to deflect blaster fire.

Force Illusion

* While searching for the kidnapped Solo children, Luke used the Force to create an illusion over his face in order to disguise his identity. He would later reuse this trick on Yoggoy.

* After the crisis, with new found knowledge from the White Current, Luke removed the Teljkon Vagabond from view using the Force; however he admitted that he did not know how long it would last.

* After the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke taught the combined White Current/the Force illusion skill to his more experienced students, which would help shield the entire moon Yavin 4 from intruders during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

* During the early days of the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke used the Force to generate a lifelike copy of the Jade Shadow to fool the attacking dartships. This usage of the Force was so extreme, Luke burnt out and his face was temporarily sunken and shriveled like Palpatine's. A year later Luke applied the same trick on the DR919a, by then Luke already mastered the technique and would no longer burn out.

Force Ghost

* During the Kueller crisis, Luke prepared himself for death in such a way that he would become a Force ghost.

* Upon death, Luke was able to retain his consciousness in the Netherworld of the Force, and could henceforth manifest himself in spirit form.

Force Enlightenment

* The narration described Luke during the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar as a maelstrom of Force energy, a Force storm against which there was no shelter. So calm and focused that his actions were not interrupted by any thought. Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality. Luke's control over his lightsaber blade was so great that he was said to might as well have been wielding ten, or twenty lightsabers against the Vong.[94] The Solo twins were astounded seeing their uncle in such a state.

lectric Judgment

* Luke used a powerful and unique ability of the Force related to his signature green Electric Judgment in the chamber of Shimrra Jamaane. This technique had been described to look like "green sparks," which instantly killed the Slayer.

Force Defend

* While battling UnuThul, Luke was able to resist the combined Force power of the Colony and triumph. When UnuThul attempted to Force Push the Grand Master, Luke rooted himself in the heart of the Force so strongly that it was said that he had become the very essence of the immovable object, and that not even the black hole at the center of the galaxy could not move him.[95]

Force Healing

* On only the trip back to Hapes after the duel, Luke used a Jedi healing trance to heal most of the damage caused by Lumiya.

Force Stasis

* During the battle of Kuat, Luke was able to use the Force to such a degree that he didn't even have to move to immobilize Jacen. It is important to note that Jacen was at this time a full Sith Lord, and he still couldn't break free.

Force Concealment

* During the Battle of Kashyyyk, Luke shut his presence down after being fired upon by Jaina to make it seem like he died. Later while Ben was in the Embrace of Pain, Jacen gave Ben back his ability to sense the Force temporarily and Ben felt the life force of his father and realized Luke was shutting himself down to everyone except Ben, something no other Jedi has been able to do.

Or the very fact that he has incredible TK which manipulated a black hole, tore a star destroyers engines apart

There. Your "limited knowledge of the force" theory has been ripped to PIECES.

Continued....

In TERMS OF LIGHTSABER FORMS!

Master Lightsaber Combatant

* Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude, which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord. However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke probably had to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order since their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans. He also mastered the strong style, a form of lightsaber combat that resembles Djem So that is used in the New Jedi Order.[68][58]

Notice the words highlighted in bold ? Its backed up by shadows of the empire novel.

Fail fail fail.

ownage personified 😄

HAHAHAHA Exodus gets owned.........again!

Originally posted by Ivalice
Continued....

In TERMS OF LIGHTSABER FORMS!

Master Lightsaber Combatant

* Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, [b]Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude, which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord. However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke probably had to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order since their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans. He also mastered the strong style, a form of lightsaber combat that resembles Djem So that is used in the New Jedi Order.[68][58]

Notice the words highlighted in bold ? Its backed up by shadows of the empire novel.

Fail fail fail. [/B]

Originally posted by Ivalice
Continued....

In TERMS OF LIGHTSABER FORMS!

Master Lightsaber Combatant

* Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, [b]Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude, which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord. However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke probably had to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order since their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans. He also mastered the strong style, a form of lightsaber combat that resembles Djem So that is used in the New Jedi Order.[68][58]

Notice the words highlighted in bold ? Its backed up by shadows of the empire novel.

Fail fail fail. [/B]

Exodus, you have just been;

....again.

No you said Revan was force god who created that created capital ships from pure energy. HE didn't do it the star forge did so gets no credit for the actual creation of the ships.

The Star forge needs someone with emense power to operate it so it stands to reason that somewhere in it Revan need's to do it.
Was Hiroshima blamed on the american's or the bomb?
Does the kettle make you a cup of tea or your mum?
Does a pen write a book or the writer?
No. The star forge needed Revan's energy to work so Revan get's the credit.

Point?

It's a childish schoolyard come back. I was merely trying to reply in your own language.

Big deal, exar kun annihilated a far more dangerous and massive dark sided beast, does that mean he is a god? No.

Um... Yes.
In KOTOR it was said that Kun was so powerful that the air itself rippled around him. He also did many other feats of power. Such as:
Chocking around twenty people at once with one hand.
Blocking that wierdo's Force blocking power.
Creating an entire race within months ( those red dudes plus mabye the taranterek)
Freezing thousands of polititians at once.
Cheating death.

Seriously there really is no "power difference" considering the fact that aleema is a weakling and luke performing a technique he has never even once used before, again a year later luke mastered this technique to a higher degree than aleema.

LOL. Higher degree? What higher than defeating entire armies with sublime ease. She only had about a year also. And she had no previous Force training.

Who really has in-depth knowledge of vader in star wars save for some of the imperial people?

Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude, which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord. However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke probably had to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order since their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans. He also mastered the strong style, a form of lightsaber combat that resembles Djem So that is used in the New Jedi Order.[68][58]

My God that took you a long timew to prove. Fine, I concede the point.
[quote]Force Sense

* During the Battle of Yavin, Luke managed to destroy the first Death Star by letting the Force tell him when to fire his proton torpedoes, while traveling at very high speeds, and not knowing the distance to the port, and having no previous knowledge of proton torpedoes and their abilities. One should note that Luke only had little training with the Force at this time.

* Luke managed to land a crashing Imperial Star Destroyer, with almost no loss of life, on Coruscant by allowing the Force to guide him at the Liberator's controls, mirroring a similar achievement by his father towards the end of the Clone Wars.[104][105][106]

Force Attunement

* Without any guidance except a handbook left by Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker successfully built his first lightsaber, merely three years after he was first introduced to the Force, and undergoing formal training for less than a year.

* Only a short time after being given a lightsaber by Obi-Wan, Luke was able to instinctively block several blaster bolts fired in rapid succession by a remote, despite his lack of prolonged formal training.

* Luke safely landed himself, Isolder, and Isolder's fighter from a free fall drop from orbit with the Force.

* During the Battle of Dathomir, Luke flew the Millennium Falcon single-handedly using only the Force, manipulating its controls and operating it with a skill that not even a full crew could manage.

* Luke was able to knock down a crippled AT-AT by pressing against it with the Force; he also absorbed the initial cannon blasts from the AT-AT, before deflecting the rest with his lightsaber.[104][105]

* During the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke used the Force to rebuild Darth Vader's old fortress on Coruscant and made it invisible.[107] In addition, Luke used the Force to crush the rebuilt fortress of Darth Vader to rubble, shattering the building piece by piece and throwing it into the oceans of Coruscant.[108]

* During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own void (black hole) against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle.[82]

Revitalize

* In the battle between the Singing Mountain Clan and the Nightsisters, Luke was almost fatally wounded by a Force attack by Gethzerion and a deep fall, but regenerated in the span of mere hours.

Droid Disable

* Luke also destroyed a group of hot-wired battle droids just by waving his hand, subtly displacing their master servos and causing the self-destruction of the group of droids.[104][105] This Force power was first manifested by Jedi Master Arca Jeth during the Great Droid Revolution. Even then, with proper instruction, it was a difficult power to master. However, this power apparently came naturally to Luke.

Force Protection

* During the time when he was re-creating the Jedi Order and was searching for potential candidates, he walked on lava while still throbbing with the Force after defeating a Fireworm living in the lava just moments before.[57] Luke's performance impressed Gantoris so much that he decided to become Luke's apprentice. It should be noted that while the temperature near a lava lake normally is extreme (hundreds of °C), there was a crowd of abandoned colonists in tattered clothing waiting at the bank of the lava, suggesting that the feat was not so remarkable after all.

* During the Eye of Palpatine incident, Luke subconsciously used his Force powers to overcome a particularly vicious form of brainwashing.

Telepathy

* During the Death Seed Plague, Luke used the Force to communicate with the sentient crystals Tsils. It is important to remember that the more dissimilar the type of mind, the more difficult it is to communicate with via the Force.

* Toward the end of the Swarm War, Luke used the Force to call all the Jedi across the galaxy to Ossus to make the announcement of him taking on the role as Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and to issue his views about the role of the Order to his Jedi.

Protection Bubble

* Luke could generate a Force shield to deflect blaster fire.

Force Illusion

* While searching for the kidnapped Solo children, Luke used the Force to create an illusion over his face in order to disguise his identity. He would later reuse this trick on Yoggoy.

* After the crisis, with new found knowledge from the White Current, Luke removed the Teljkon Vagabond from view using the Force; however he admitted that he did not know how long it would last.

* After the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke taught the combined White Current/the Force illusion skill to his more experienced students, which would help shield the entire moon Yavin 4 from intruders during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

* During the early days of the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke used the Force to generate a lifelike copy of the Jade Shadow to fool the attacking dartships. This usage of the Force was so extreme, Luke burnt out and his face was temporarily sunken and shriveled like Palpatine's. A year later Luke applied the same trick on the DR919a, by then Luke already mastered the technique and would no longer burn out. [/uote]