USH'S MATRIX GAME 2006 FIFTH ASSIGNMENT- 'The Pagoda'

Well then I'd look for his warning...

Well, I shall provide it.

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"Believe me, Azrael. You'll curse the Oracle when you find out what she didn't tell you about YOUR future."

He also made one other very significant point about your future which is still relevant, if you work out the tangled web you are mixed up in.

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Melkor is talking a bit conceptually; this is not the Philosophy Path any more. Anyone else want to take a stab at the point Melitus is making?

That by trying to save humanity, we are infact dooming ourselves to repeat the past? Just as the humans burned the sky, they thought that by doing that they would destroy the machines, but in the end they ended up doing nothing but making the machines reliant on them. The old man thinks that by us trying to save humanity, we'd destroy the machines and end up with them finding some way to use us to stay alive.

I dunno, I've just been looking at this quote:

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"I am unconvinced your attachment to many of those lives is..."

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"... not beyond reason either. Certainly those guided by..."

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"... reason alone supported such means, long ago."

That's referring to the fact that the logical conclusion was to exterminate the Humans at the end of the war and as a consequence let most of the Machines die out for want of power.

The Philo path engaged with the fact that the choice not to do this by the Machines was a moral one- because they had more than just practical feel for Machine civilisation, but also they thought those Machines had a right to live.

Melkor was making claim to being guided by reason alone; Melitus was commenting on how if that was true he'd probaby let the Matrix die to weaken the Machines. His attachment to billions of Humans he has never met may well be a suitable motivation for acting as he does but is outside of Melkor's implication of acting by reason alone (which, in the context Melkor used it, was refutation; Melkor was saying that faith was 'beyond reason', i.e. illogical. The same could be said for this attachment to Humanity).

So ultimately Melitus was commenting there that you are all guided by faith, on some level- even if it is just hope of victory. Without it you have little left.

But what we are looking for here is a much more... mundane? Maybe not the right word. But a very much more straightforward point Melitus is making, especially in him stressing that it is not HIS plan you have been inevitably following. He could see the plan, he chose not to mess it up, but it wasn't his.

I kinda want to ask just whose plan it is and how long it's in place, but somehow get the feeling that we know that already and I'm just going to look silly.

Yay silly?

Well, fine, if I end up asking something we know already I'll just blame it on the fact that I got a bit too distracted to really follow Philo before...😛

"If this isn't your plan, then whose is it? And just how long have we been following it, and how long has it been in place?"

"I would have thought it was obvious. You do, after..."

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"... all take guidance from just one programme."

Tha plan is the plan of Jericho and LO Qi.

But they didn`t consider the possibilty that we could receive help from Oracle, and Sennacherib has an andidote that we could convince him to give us.

Or could Jerciho plan a contingency?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"I would have thought it was obvious. You do, after..."

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"... all take guidance form just one programme."

"The Oracle...so this was all her idea?"

"Of course. Getting you to open the Door was..."

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"... her plan, and she pushed you towards that outcome."

"What benefit she could have in this?"

"That should be clear."

Could she want to make a point....about morality and choices?

Thinking too conceptual/complex there again, really.

Also that's making out the Oracle to be even worse than Melitus is going to- this is a pretty damn harsh way to make some obscure point about choices.

"She wanted Jericho`s and LO Qi`s plans to fail, and only way was through us distrupting the final phase after doing the part they envisioned for us."

"In a sense. In another, that was part of her..."

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"... design also. Regardless, her objective was to remove..."

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"... the threat of the Virus to her."

"And only to her?

Still, I assume that you agree with this objective." -Melkor speaks cautiously.

"Her and her plans. Like all of us, she fights to protect her..."

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"... agenda, and the Virus is a threat to it. As it is to mine, so..."

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"... indeed I support the measure. But as ever, the Oracle..."

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"... does not tell you of her intent, and the consequences for you. She..."

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"... professes to have left you the choice with the Door, but really, did you have one..."

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"... at all?"

"We had a very limited choice, and not enough basis to make a reasonable decision. We would never have opened the door if we knew about the Virus- most of us hoped for something useful against the system. Among other motives were simple curiosity and the fact that our personal situation was desperate...though not that desperate like it is now." -Melkor speaks a bit angrily, fighting the bloodcough,