Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
the games that are being played are too vicious, i don't like it, it's as if they are forgetting that ppl have a choice. now, remember, i'm the one that thinks all of the recent racial problems shown on the news has some sort of link to the candidates wanting ppl to vote based on race. i really do think this, it's happening too much, more then ever. I suspect that if ppl think race, they will be less likely to vote for a different race during elections. I don't want to vote this time around. doing so would just encourage their behavior. crazy, yes, but it makes sense to me.the frequency of racial issues reported on the news is getting closer and closer, at one time, it was maybe a month apart, then weeks apart, now, it's almost every other day, i suspect that based on this pattern, we are going to hear about more racial issues as we get closer to the elections...and all of those "problems" with nooses, etc. are going to stop once elections are over with.
we just had a recent school shooting, a white guy with the last name "coon", do you know that the word "coon" was used as a racial perjurative to describe african-americans?
i feel that they don't give a shit about us, they just want power that badly and will use whatever games they can to get elected. they forget that without out us, there would be no government.
When have they ever "cared" about anyone?
No one still will discuss the North American Union. I did not know the Attorney General had resigned for a while because the media kept talking about O.J. The race relations are just a distraction so the government may continue signing crap that gives them more jurisdiction to "watch over" domestic terrorists.
It's all bananas right now. 💃
Originally posted by inimalist
Generally speaking, of course, political parties in a nation represent a very narrow point of view. Terms like "liberal" and "conservative" are now regional to the point that, for example, all Canadian parties, including the conservatives, are socialist, whereas all American parties, including the Democrats, fall WELL to the right of all Canadian parties.In every nation's democratic system there is an "acceptable" amount of variability between parties that allows them to remain mainstream (North American Democracies at least, Europe is more open and free, but suffers some more interesting problems, like the liberal + fascist + Christian alliances). A good case study in this might be the Canadian Green party. It has lost much of its initial support and members, because it had to sell out most of its extreme views to gain mainstream notoriety. Sure, many more people vote for them now, but their platform is almost identical to our "socialist" party.
Honestly, your comment is so close to "If you don't vote, you don't get to complain." Which is straight bullshit. If you vote you don't get to complain. You bought the system, you gave into voting for someone who doesn't really represent your voice. You are personally responsible for the problems with our democratic system 😛
In my opinion and experience most political parties represent a very broad view. Certainly there isn't going to be The specific party for you. But that won't ever be unless you start your own (and even then...). However people who complain about the system and don't try and change it (either by voting or changing it from the inside, start or join a political party) imo give up a large part of their 'right' to complain.
It's my opinion you don't have to agree with it ofcourse.
LOL
well, maybe you guys live in magic fantasy land, where the political system isn't inherrently a tool of major political parties to keep power, or where minority viewpoints are given a real chance at political power, but in my world, having a say in a system that is designed to reduce what it is you can have a say on isn't really having a say at all, more of a self congradulatory practice of brand loyalty.
Participation is compliance.
Yes I will vote but on a national level it's pretty much pointless. The only way I see positive changes is if major issues such as immigration reform, trade agreements, healthcare reform, etc etc, are put to a popular vote as is becoming the case on a State level. Under the current system moneyed interests will always call the shots.
Originally posted by chithappens
So you suggest what?
lol
I don't think there is any real quick fix answer. Its like what Churchill said, "Democracy is terrible, but its the best we have".
Don't get me wrong, were I an American I would have voted against (even though I hate the philosophical idea) Bush. If there were any change I supported (or really at all) being promoted by the parties in power here I would gladly participate.
We just had a provincial election and referendum, so I've been thinking about this a bit. We need a system that can both account for and correct human inadequacies in problem solving and cognitive abilities, be efficent and have a built in conflict resolution mechanism, while maintaining accountability to the general public, who are by and large uneducated and uninterested in the minuta of the political world.
I don't know, a benevolent and accountable fascist state run by a libertarian technocratic ideology 🙂 Thats what we need 😛
Originally posted by chithappens
How is it not useless on a state, county and city level?
Because, on state and local levels issues can be put to a direct vote rather than having politicians, which are controlled by corporations, decide.
Ballot initiatives are becoming more and more common on state and local levels, something we desperately need on a national level.
Originally posted by inimalistWe just had a provincial election and referendum, so I've been thinking about this a bit. We need a system that can both account for and correct human inadequacies in problem solving and cognitive abilities, be efficent and have a built in conflict resolution mechanism, while maintaining accountability to the general public, who are by and large uneducated and uninterested in the minuta of the political world.
I think democracy is the worst system for this. Greek philosophers discussed what you be best for government but democracy was often left out because it is so easy to manipulate the masses.
There is no good way to account for human greed and the such but oh well
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Because, on state and local levels issues can be put to a direct vote rather than having politicians, which are controlled by corporations, decide.Ballot initiatives are becoming more and more common on state and local levels, something we desperately need on a national level.
I can attest that this is not the case. In Memphis, TN, mayor Herenton was just voted in again and has been in office for maybe 20 years. There have been multiple scandals with MLGW (Memphis Light Gas and Water) in which everyone knows he is getting kickbacks.
Wanna know how he gets out? He just claims racism.
It is the same at all levels.
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Because, on state and local levels issues can be put to a direct vote rather than having politicians, which are controlled by corporations, decide.Ballot initiatives are becoming more and more common on state and local levels, something we desperately need on a national level.
Thats total bull. People are not educated enough to be handed the reigns of power so directly. There are real answers to real life political problems that are held up by the voting public's lack of awareness of real and workable solutions.
The way people are convinced that A is true and B is not bares no resemblance to the actual validity of A or B. More power by people in voting will increase the "bumper sticker" politics of CNN and Fox News, and not the competency of effectiveness of national or state policy.
Originally posted by inimalist
Thats total bull. People are not educated enough to be handed the reigns of power so directly. There are real answers to real life political problems that are held up by the voting public's lack of awareness of real and workable solutions.The way people are convinced that A is true and B is not bares no resemblance to the actual validity of A or B. More power by people in voting will increase the "bumper sticker" politics of CNN and Fox News, and not the competency of effectiveness of national or state policy.
What a very linear and arrogant way of thinking. This is what the elite want people to think and it seems you buy right into it. People are smarter than you give them credit for. The only real danger to participatory democracy is apathy but that's pretty much what we have now.
But maybe you're onto something. It seems that trusting our politicians has been good for us. That's why we now have a quagmire in Iraq. A national debt that is only beginning to catch up to us. A healthcare debacle, an immigration nightmare, massive outsourcing of the better paying jobs, etc, etc. Yep, politicians do seem to know what's best for us.
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
What a very linear and arrogant way of thinking. This is what the elite want people to think and it seems you buy right into it. People are smarter than you give them credit for. The only real danger to participatory democracy is apathy but that's pretty much what we have now.But maybe you're onto something. It seems that trusting our politicians has been good for us. That's why we now have a quagmire in Iraq. A national debt that is only beginning to catch up to us. A healthcare debacle, an immigration nightmare, massive outsourcing of the better paying jobs, etc, etc. Yep, politicians do seem to know what's best for us.
Seriously though, how do you get the masses to not be swallowed up by the "halo effect?"
It is not apathy, it is ignorance and blind, loyal support to the paradigm of the masses around you. That is the problem.