Originally posted by Diamond Kissescry
[b]Guys! Arthas is the Frodo of Warcraft! He is a wuss with loads of huge luck and powerful allied 😛Illidan lost the fight because Blizzard asked him to take a dive 🙁
There is no way that someone as noobish as Arthas can defeat Illidan if he use full firepower 😐
[/B]
Originally posted by Remindme
True, but i mean, this was a cutscene fight, and they both favour combat over magic if they can. Arthas did show superior skill in combat....
it didn't show anything.. None of them used any magic, or other abilities than plain fighting.. I mean.. Look at the sequence again.. Illidan jumps back, and hoover slowly in the air with his arms spread out when Arthas cuts him.. He pretty much asked him to jump and slice..
In the video, Illidan dodge and parry attacks with vast skills, and suddenly when having an advantage of the fight, he jumps backwards and get sliced.. After reading what DK said about him taking a dive, I had to watch the video again and this is when I noticed this.. I suggest you take a look as well..
And welcome back, DK 🙂
Okay then, just one more thing......
If Illidan is undeniably stronger, why is that that Arthas does win? I mean, however you look at this, it was Blizzard's choice that Arthas defeats Illidan, if Illidan is stronger, why doesn't Arthas have help in beating? Why is it it's one on one and yet Illidan still loses.
Remember that cut scene was like it is because they couldn't make it a cinematic. So just because you don't have a more realistic video, you assume it's wrong canon wise? So the reason Arthas won was because of a lower budget than Blizzard planned, that doesn't make the result of this fight any different.
DeathKnight >>> Demon Hunter, Pre level 6
DeathKnight > Demon Hunter, if there are any undead around after level 6 (Death Pact)
Diamond i understand your point, but He got new and much more powerful power after becoming DeathKnight, He wasn't that highly a skilled paladin, yet he wipes the floor with a few when he's a DeathKnight.
p.s Welcome back to us DK ^-^
Originally posted by Remindme
Okay then, just one more thing......If Illidan is undeniably stronger, why is that that Arthas does win? I mean, however you look at this, it was Blizzard's choice that Arthas defeats Illidan, if Illidan is stronger, why doesn't Arthas have help in beating? Why is it it's one on one and yet Illidan still loses.
Remember that cut scene was like it is because they couldn't make it a cinematic. So just because you don't have a more realistic video, you assume it's wrong canon wise? So the reason Arthas won was because of a lower budget than Blizzard planned, that doesn't make the result of this fight any different.
DeathKnight >>> Demon Hunter, Pre level 6
DeathKnight > Demon Hunter, if there are any undead around after level 6 (Death Pact)
Diamond i understand your point, but He got new and much more powerful power after becoming DeathKnight, He wasn't that highly a skilled paladin, yet he wipes the floor with a few when he's a DeathKnight.
p.s Welcome back to us DK ^-^
Why, you ask? Because if Illidan won, World Of Warcraft would have no foundation.. If Arthas would have died, the circle wouldn't have been completed.. If the circle wouldn't have been completed, the soul of the Lich King would have perished into the ether.. If the soul perished, the scourge would fall to the ground like the lifeless shells that they are..
WoW needs the Lich King.. Without him, there wouldn't be much WoW in the first place.. Therefore, Illidan die by plot.. He flawed in the fight and Arthas smited him..
As consequence, the Warcraft universe lives on; bigger than ever..
Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Why, you ask? Because if Illidan won, World Of Warcraft would have no foundation.. If Arthas would have died, the circle wouldn't have been completed.. If the circle wouldn't have been completed, the soul of the Lich King would have perished into the ether.. If the soul perished, the scourge would fall to the ground like the lifeless shells that they are..WoW needs the Lich King.. Without him, there wouldn't be much WoW in the first place.. Therefore, Illidan die by plot.. He flawed in the fight and Arthas smited him..
As consequence, the Warcraft universe lives on; bigger than ever..
So, they decided just to make a weaker guy win? It would be easier and make alot more sense to just make him more powerful. I hate to say it but I can't see the base for your point, Illidan displays a wider magic range, though this doesn't not mean more powerful. His age and experience earn him a high rating true, but then most night elves are older than the other races people, but this does not make them better.
The Logic of making the weaker guy win for the sake of the story is flawed IMO. Illidan is weaker than Arthas at this point in time, that is a fact, I'm evening looking for an interveiw for this. Because if Illidan is stronger it should appear, but i have nothing, what about you?
Untrue, WoW needs a being to control the Scourge, this doesn't not neccessarily have to be the Lich King. Kel'Thuzard for one.
If Illidan won, Illidan would be in Notherrend, not Outland, and the demons in Outland would still be present. Arthas's Victory was not critical for the success of World of Warcraft. As the planning for his appearence in it hadn't started to be planned until over 1 years after WoW's release.
p.s though Blizzard seems to always have intended for Arthas to be in WoW it was not confirmed until recently as you well know.
What you have to take into account is that its not always the most powerful guy who wins, even if as i belive Illidan is more powerful and has far more advantages over DK Arthas, you dont really think for example the people who survived the world war did so because their mightier warriors, far more skilled than those millions who died, you have to take into account that Illidan could even if completly forgetting the video, lost due to a foolish move, a random occurance, falling, not being quick enough even if he is actually faster by far, just because someone is faster doesnt mean they would always do the "right" things with their speed.
Overall gameplay means nothing tbh, the fact a death knight or Demon hunter can beat eachother is void since gameplay is stats and balance, nothing to hold a real arguement with, for example if i go in world editor i can change the stats so DK 1 hits any character, but yes stats and balance.
Kelthuzard could not control the scourge, not to the extent of Lich king, the lich king is link to all of them, Kelthuzard may possibly die as well if the lich king falls due to him now being a lich and undead, although i think Kelth may find a way to stop himself dieing if this is the case, Kelth could certainly not control the scourge like the king.
Originally posted by Remindme
So, they decided just to make a weaker guy win? It would be easier and make alot more sense to just make him more powerful. I hate to say it but I can't see the base for your point, Illidan displays a wider magic range, though this doesn't not mean more powerful. His age and experience earn him a high rating true, but then most night elves are older than the other races people, but this does not make them better.The Logic of making the weaker guy win for the sake of the story is flawed IMO. Illidan is weaker than Arthas at this point in time, that is a fact, I'm evening looking for an interveiw for this. Because if Illidan is stronger it should appear, but i have nothing, what about you?
Untrue, WoW needs a being to control the Scourge, this doesn't not neccessarily have to be the Lich King. Kel'Thuzard for one.
If Illidan won, Illidan would be in Notherrend, not Outland, and the demons in Outland would still be present. Arthas's Victory was not critical for the success of World of Warcraft. As the planning for his appearence in it hadn't started to be planned until over 1 years after WoW's release.
p.s though Blizzard seems to always have intended for Arthas to be in WoW it was not confirmed until recently as you well know.
It would make it more easy, yes.. But why do things have to be easy? There are MANY games and movies where weak characters conquer over all-mighty entities.. For example, Jago killed Jafar.. PEH! Does that make Jago more powerful?
And your right.. Just because an elf is older than others, doesn't mean they are better.. Then again, most elves haven't been blessed by Kil'Jaeden.. Most aren't the first and most powerful demon hunter of existance..
If Illidan won, WoW could never reach the extent that it has.. Without the Lich King, there'd be no scourge.. And honestly.. Can you imagine a WoW without the scourge?
Originally posted by Burning thought
What you have to take into account is that its not always the most powerful guy who wins, even if as i belive Illidan is more powerful and has far more advantages over DK Arthas, you dont really think for example the people who survived the world war did so because their mightier warriors, far more skilled than those millions who died, you have to take into account that Illidan could even if completly forgetting the video, lost due to a foolish move, a random occurance, falling, not being quick enough even if he is actually faster by far, just because someone is faster doesnt mean they would always do the "right" things with their speed.Overall gameplay means nothing tbh, the fact a death knight or Demon hunter can beat eachother is void since gameplay is stats and balance, nothing to hold a real arguement with, for example if i go in world editor i can change the stats so DK 1 hits any character, but yes stats and balance.
Kelthuzard could not control the scourge, not to the extent of Lich king, the lich king is link to all of them, Kelthuzard may possibly die as well if the lich king falls due to him now being a lich and undead, although i think Kelth may find a way to stop himself dieing if this is the case, Kelth could certainly not control the scourge like the king.
Another question: If the fight was a cinematic and didn't have such a poor ending, would this even be up for discussion? or would you trust the cinematic?
Blizzard planned for it to be a cinemtic, you can blame that slip because of underfunding.
Kel'thuzard wouldn't die, or else Sylvannas would be dead or under LK's control. Powerful undead entities, like Liches or DeathKnights don't need the LK to survive, but being one with him gives them a strategic advantage.
Example: When Sylannas broke free, Kel'thuzard still allied with Arthas, when other undead served the Deadlords
Originally posted by Darth Extecute
It would make it more easy, yes.. But why do things have to be easy? There are MANY games and movies where weak characters conquer over all-mighty entities.. For example, Jago killed Jafar.. PEH! Does that make Jago more powerful?And your right.. Just because an elf is older than others, doesn't mean they are better.. Then again, most elves haven't been blessed by Kil'Jaeden.. Most aren't the first and most powerful demon hunter of existance..
If Illidan won, WoW could never reach the extent that it has.. Without the Lich King, there'd be no scourge.. And honestly.. Can you imagine a WoW without the scourge?
No doesn't make such characters all powerful. Why are you talking like Arthas is weaker? you have yet to prove that. Feats maybe?
Ner'Zhul was cursed by Kil'jaeden with power unknown to Kil'jaeden himslef, and Arthas has a part of that power, Forstmourne. Demon Hunter is a title, like Arthas Dragon Slayer, Arthas Scourge's Fist, Arthas Wizard Destroyer, Arthas Paladin pwner etc
Yes it would, in some form or another. For one thing there would have been blood elves from before, and alot more naga. There would have been Undead in some form or another. Like i said, Arthas hasn't been introduced even yet, so you cannot make such a wild claim.
Originally posted by Remindme
Another question: If the fight was a cinematic and didn't have such a poor ending, would this even be up for discussion? or would you trust the cinematic?Blizzard planned for it to be a cinemtic, you can blame that slip because of underfunding.
Kel'thuzard wouldn't die, or else Sylvannas would be dead or under LK's control. Powerful undead entities, like Liches or DeathKnights don't need the LK to survive, but being one with him gives them a strategic advantage.
Example: When Sylannas broke free, Kel'thuzard still allied with Arthas, when other undead served the Deadlords
depends on the outscome, if the characters still didnt use their full powers then it wouldnt matter if it was a cinematic or not, ofcourse it would be up for duscussion, Illidan has tonnes of advantages on his side including flight. Possible speed, the only thing DK arthas i think "may" beat him in is strength and ofcourse a more powerful weapon (altho Blades of Azzinoth are incredibly powerful themselves so thats debatable)
fair enough on Kelth not dieing, but you have to take into account he wouldnt be able to control the scourge, anywhere near to the power of the lich king, also Darth is quite right, its far more exciting for players to meet a fusion of arthas and lich king than it would be for say, Kelthuzard at the end, or Illidan, throughout the series King was seen as a very high character that players would want to meet
Originally posted by Burning thought
depends on the outscome, if the characters still didnt use their full powers then it wouldnt matter if it was a cinematic or not, ofcourse it would be up for duscussion, Illidan has tonnes of advantages on his side including flight. Possible speed, the only thing DK arthas i think "may" beat him in is strength and ofcourse a more powerful weapon (altho Blades of Azzinoth are incredibly powerful themselves so thats debatable)fair enough on Kelth not dieing, but you have to take into account he wouldnt be able to control the scourge, anywhere near to the power of the lich king, also Darth is quite right, its far more exciting for players to meet a fusion of arthas and lich king than it would be for say, Kelthuzard at the end, or Illidan, throughout the series King was seen as a very high character that players would want to meet
I doubt that, this whole thread was born of the idea of PIS because Illidan got cut because of his defenses, thus the point would never have been bought up.
Tonnes of advantages? that you can prove? The only things you can Prove is Speed he has a slight advantage, and a bigger arsenal of spells, You however cannot prove Illidan is more magically powerful...or atleast you have not thus far
Frostmourne > Blades of Azzinoth
Not all of the scourge, but some of it i bet he would be able to. Maybe, but at the time when this battle was written World of Warcraft was just an idea, so it's irrelevent
Originally posted by Remindme
I doubt that, this whole thread was born of the idea of PIS because Illidan got cut because of his defenses, thus the point would never have been bought up.Tonnes of advantages? that you can prove? The only things you can Prove is Speed he has a slight advantage, and a bigger arsenal of spells, You however cannot prove Illidan is more magically powerful...or atleast you have not thus far
Frostmourne > Blades of Azzinoth
Not all of the scourge, but some of it i bet he would be able to. Maybe, but at the time when this battle was written World of Warcraft was just an idea, so it's irrelevent
it could be PIS in a cutscene jsut as much as in any other media, the fact is in what Blizzard showed, he opens himself wide, and is foolish, if they used a cinematic it could of gone the same way, you dont have to just overpower an enemy to win, it doesnt work like that in real battle.
what do you mean just an idea, sure, and ideas often have tonnes of plans before their created, for all we know they "could" have already planned this, half of the blizzards storylines are preset. They dont just design games as their going along, before they go in production they already have half the story of several games if not the whole story desigend in scripts.
Tonnes of advantages, yes, flight...can you prove Arthas has more power? thats void, Death coil can be used by warlocks in WoW, so its not like its a special super Arthas ability and theres nothing that can prove its as incredibly powerful as you seem to think it is, especially not more so than the incredible lasers and beams illidan can do, in flight no less..speed, the bolt is a projectile, all Illidan in reality would have to do is move skywards while littering the ground with lasers and all kinds of beams, not to menstion his summons, spirits of Azzinoth, which he can summon without bodies required unlike Arthas summons.
we have little evidence that Arthas has great magic ability,especially compared to Illidan who has had so many magical aritfacts powered onto him its almost a joke, he even drank from the well of eternity if i remember correctly, Arthas' powers are the small few the lich king empoers onto him, but do not make the mistake he has the Lich kings powers at all. Many deathknights have Arthas same set of powers.
Originally posted by Remindme
Like i said, Arthas hasn't been introduced even yet, so you cannot make such a wild claim.
I dont got much time, so I didn't bother read it all trough properly and reply to it all.. Youll get a full reply later..
For now....
Arthas HAS been introduced.. Your thinking of the Lich King.. The Lich King is introduced in the next patch..