Kar Vastor and Durge vs. Obi-Wan and Anakin
This fight takes place in a swamp on Dagobah.
Kar is in his prime, just as he was before he fought Master Windu.
Durge is in the same condition he was when he faced Kenobi and Anakin.
Obi-Wan and Anakin are both in their respective ROTS forms, just as they are about to duel Dooku.
This is an all-out fight. All character-known Force abilities can be used and any form of weapon can be salvaged from the surrounding swamp.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Hmmm...interesting. With Anakin being the way he was with Dooku, I doubt there's anyone who could compete with him in a saber duel. Kar is a beast, but i doubt he's as skilled as Dooku with his weapon.For Durge to lose, does he have to die or does a knockout or "normal" death count?
Good question. Incapacitation will count as Durge's defeat in this match.
Also, consider that Mace, while fighting Kar, admitted that Vastor was stronger, faster, and would utterly defeat Mace on his best day.
That's still a defeat, and Dooku beat Mace too. Albeit not while utilizing vaapad, but as Mace grew better, so did Dooku, becoming "an even greater sith." Either way, OB1's for is made for supreme protection from attacks, so it would depend on if Kar would would tire and make a mistake for OB1 to capitalize on. Anakin and OB1 beat Durge before, so if one could hold off Durge while they attempt to take out Kar, then again double team Durge. But if Durge gets "defeated" then he's out for the rest of the match? Then they could double team Kar.
I see the Jedi winning, but I can see how Kar and Durge could pull off the upset, however unlikely I perceive it to be.
I have to give it to the Jedi. Anakin is better and would beat Vastor. This isnt in the Jungle of Haruun Kal and so Vastor loses his major and largest advantage. Off Haruun Kal Kar would still be powerful, but he would be considerably weaker without the Jungle to drive him and fuel his power. Anakin is just way to damn gifted (more so then Vastor) better trained and even better at blade to blade combat and it makes no difference where Anakin is, he's still extremely powerful. He'll beat Vastor.
Obi-Wan has shown himself cacable of fending off Durge on more then one occasion so even if he cant beat him outright he can hold him off until Anakin is finished with Vastor, and well...we all know what happend the last time Anakin fought Durge.
Obi-Wan and Anakin take it, with slight difficulty.
What people seem to forget here is the fact that Kar Vastor is using two vibroblades as weapons which are lightsaber resistant.
How the hell should one of the Jedi get through his defences ? Mace just managed that because he had another of that shields at hand and propelled it into those Vastor was wearing on his arms. Technically you have to imagine that Anakin or Obi-Wan would be confronted with (metaphorically spoken) a guy that uses two shields (protection) that are weapons at the same time. That's pretty freaking hard if not outright impossible to do if you wield just a single sword.
Aside of that I don't know if the Dark Side filled jungle of Dagobah would be any different from Vastors natural "home". And of course I really don't know how you people think that Anakin and Obi-Wan would be able to get rid of Durge while having to do with a force user and combatant who seems to be better than Mace Windu.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Cause Durge can be defeated in this battle by "normal" means. If he is incapacitated, then he's down. Mace killed Jango like he was nothing...I'm sure Anakin could do the same to Durge with slightly more difficulty.
So because Mace killed Jango, that has some kind of effect on Anakin and Durge?
You're comparing 4 different people in two separate events. Those fights have virtually no relation. Anakin didn't beat Durge alone, Obi-Wan, though injured, did help him with a rather large amount of explosives. Anakin didn't even 'defeat' Durge, he forced him off of the ship. Mace killed Jango because he lost his jetpack after being trampled. Had Jango still had his jetpack and not been in the middle of a battle, as Windu was as well, the fight may have gone a bit differently.
Originally posted by Se7inIsn't Jango the more deadly of the two? I mean in respects to offensive abilities, not including Durge's ability to live forever.
So because Mace killed Jango, that has some kind of effect on Anakin and Durge?
Originally posted by Se7inWell, here's what your saying, "Anakin only "defeated" Durge because OB1 just happened to help..." But Mace beat Jango the way he did "just because" his jet pack was destroyed, and i understand that you mentioned that. However, the fact remains that both won despite the circumstances. What's stopping Anakin from tooling Durge with the force? Point is, Anakin is by no means a slouch in any department, and should be fully capable of restricting Durge's involvement, if not just kill him straight out. And my comparison was simply made because I feel the power difference between Anakin and Durge is similar to the one between Mace and Jango.
You're comparing 4 different people in two separate events. Those fights have virtually no relation. Anakin didn't beat Durge alone, Obi-Wan, though injured, did help him with a rather large amount of explosives. Anakin didn't even 'defeat' Durge, he forced him off of the ship. Mace killed Jango because he lost his jetpack after being trampled. Had Jango still had his jetpack and not been in the middle of a battle, as Windu was as well, the fight may have gone a bit differently.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Isn't Jango the more deadly of the two? I mean in respects to offensive abilities, not including Durge's ability to live forever.
I'm not sure. I believe Durge's strength, stamina, and tolerance for pain are leagues ahead of Jango's though. Jango killed far less Jedi than Durge. Durge has hundreds of years of more experience with killing both Jedi and non-Jedi.
Well, here's what your saying, "Anakin only "defeated" Durge because OB1 just happened to help..." But Mace beat Jango the way he did "just because" his jet pack was destroyed, and i understand that you mentioned that. However, the fact remains that both won despite the circumstances. What's stopping Anakin from tooling Durge with the force? Point is, Anakin is by no means a slouch in any department, and should be fully capable of restricting Durge's involvement, if not just kill him straight out. And my comparison was simply made because I feel the power difference between Anakin and Durge is similar to the one between Mace and Jango.
I see what you're getting at. But still, we can't assume that the 4 have a correlation based on next to nothing. We never see Anakin tool anyone with the Force, so I'm curious about where he gains this ability from. Many people have claimed Anakin is a very powerful Force User, but I've yet to see proof.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Isn't Jango the more deadly of the two? I mean in respects to offensive abilities, not including Durge's ability to live forever.
Well. Durge is tougher, stronger and most likely faster than Jango. I mean what...he stopped a speeder bike with his bare hands (Battle of Muunlist) and even when having a lightsaber put through his abdomen he was capable to floor four Jedi including Kenobi and Anakin (Battle of Ohma-D'un). I'd say he's quite more deadly than Jango, especially if you consider the fact that he is virtually immortal (meaning he can take some limbs being cut off and similar stuff that won't instantly stop him).
What's stopping Anakin from tooling Durge with the force? Point is, Anakin is by no means a slouch in any department, and should be fully capable of restricting Durge's involvement, if not just kill him straight out. And my comparison was simply made because I feel the power difference between Anakin and Durge is similar to the one between Mace and Jango.
What stopped Anakin from tooling Durge with the force in all their confrontations so far ? Why should we assume that something which never happened before despite the fact that the circumstances for it to happen (Anakin facing Durge) where there several times is going to happen in this particular fight ?
Right. That doesn't make sense. Not to mention that I don't know how Anakin would tool Durge with the force when the guy is clearly capable of keep on fighting after receiving multiple wounds from lightsabers. It's not that easy to knock him out as it seems.
Aside of that I'd really like to read your ideas what would happen to Obi-Wan in the case Anakin fights Durge. He would have to deal with Kar Vastor on his own then and I somehow doubt he would survive that.
I think Anakin and Obi-Wan win.
Anakin is to much for anyone here to handle, especially since Durge can be defeated only by incapacitation, while Obi-Wan holds long enough(if not win himself by being the complete master of defensive form), that Anakin makes it 2 on 1, which means pwnege for the guy still standing.