Racism

Started by chithappens215 pages

Originally posted by inimalist
wow, I'd love to hear what you have to say on this more fleshed out...

would you say that there are differences in interpretation of situations based simply on one's perceived racial role? If there is this break between white and whoever, do white people understand this difference in racial terms?

Honestly, it depends on class. I want to address this further but I'm finishing this note up now.

I focused on Black Americans for the note. Seeing as how this was intended for this forum and facebook, I did not want to make it too long. I wanted it concise but efficient.

"The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent."

- Malcolm X

Tabula rasa (Latin: scraped tablet or clean slate)
refers to the epistemological thesis that individual human beings are born with no innate or built-in mental content, in a word, "blank", and that their entire resource of knowledge is built up gradually from their experiences and sensory perceptions of the outside world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa)

Racism is an ideology, not a fact. One must first acknowledge this before any of my collective thoughts make any sense - no evidence has ever been collected in any field of science that accurately claims any race inferior to another (historically speaking, claims have been made: most recently, the Nazis). Instead, what we have in front of us is a mirror of ethnocentricity that provides assumptions and pre-disposes the mind to either racial inferiority or racial superiority. In this particular note, I will address Black Americans or both sides of the spectrum.

First, I’ll briefly go through slavery and the Civil War. Dred Scott v. Sandford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford), stated, in short, that any person of African descent could never be an citizen of the United States (overturned by the 13th and 14th amendment in 1866 and 1868; funny enough Mississippi did not ratify the 13th amendment until 1995, wow). This was held up in Supreme Court, making it federal law, so it is completely understandable to see why so many black people would attempt to go north of the border. They were no longer citizens, citizens have no rights, meaning any white citizen could do with them as they wished which included selling them as a “runaway slave.”

The two things to take away from this:

1) Black people were considered property, not people. Again, it is worth noting we are talking about a ruling upheld by the federal government. This does not make it the paradigm of the all people, similar to how the United States often enters war without the consent of most of its’ citizens. Regardless of what you hear, there were plenty of white abolitionists who were against slavery (if you choose to refute this statement please read and offer a citation for proper argumentation). I am trying to be concise so I can not elaborate further.

* Amendments only need 2/3 of the states to ratify to be passed

2) People of power wanted and needed black people to be slaves. Understand, while morality played a part in what started the civil war it is not the sole, nor the most important reason for the war: the most important factor was money. The U.S. census of 1860 claims around four million slaves could be accounted for (http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0056/tab01.xls) ; however, you must also include the fact that black men were only counted as 3/5 a man and the census did not count children or women. Now with that in mind, a man in the prime of his life was worth $35,200 (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/slaveauction.htm ; I‘d like to note this is honestly the most modest number I have seen but I only have book sources and I want to give you something to look @; if you want to see why the numbers vary so much check out this link: http://econweb.rutgers.edu/rockoff/HowMuch.htm ), multiply by four million, take into account crops lost and the such - here’s the big reason the Civil War was fought.

I will allow the discussions after I post this to further the discussion here. Remember, we are trying to be concise. I have cookies to eat and this is the last day my milk will be any good. Now for the period often forgotten: the Nadir.

na·dir - the lowest point; point of greatest adversity or despair. (dictionary.com)

Honestly, I was unfamiliar with the term “nadir” as it refers to U.S. history. It is a period (later 19th century to about 1920) in which the rights that black citizens gained during Reconstruction were lost again. This is often coined as the period in which racism existed at it’s worse. This would include the more obvious things you knew (lynching, not allowing black people to vote with public violence, ex. shooting them) to some of the more mind-numbing, blatantly ignored facts such as Black Wall Street aka the Tulsa (Oklahoma) Race Riots of 1921 “in which whites dropped dynamite from airplanes onto a black ghetto, killing more than 75 people and destroying more than 1,100 homes, have completely vanished from our history books” ( Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Lowen). Lowen, in the same book, also mentions how Pres. Warren G. Harding was “proudly inducted” into the KKK during a white house ceremony (point in mentioning this is to make it clear how racist the federal government was; they did not care to protect the rights of black citizens ). Then are the well known Jim Crow laws which enforced “separate but equal” and upheld in the Supreme Court ruling Plessy v. Ferguson of 1896 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson).

Now here’s probably my most controversial point: integration was a step backwards for black citizens. Integration has helped race relations in some facets because it made certain that white and black citizens had to interact; however, it was a failure in each other variable.

1) The civil rights movement began with the paradigm of “equality.” Now read this carefully: “separate, but equal” would be the definition of “equality.” “Integration” is the polar opposite of “equality.” The civil rights movement wanted the government to uphold “separate, but equal” rather than just have it as some cute hearsay.

On September 11, 2006, I was able to speak to Harry Belafonte, one on one, after a dinner following a speech he gave concerning the responsibility of the youth (this was at the University of Tennessee; I was on the Black Cultural Programming Committee). He reiterated to me what he said during the speech: Martin Luther King Jr. felt as if he made a mistake promoting integration; he used the metaphor of a burning house to say he was leading black people to a bad spot. Belafonte then asked him, “Well what do we do?” Martin Luther King Jr. then responded: “We become firefighters.”

*King Jr. would be assassinated three days later in Memphis, TN.

Equality says, “ You have your thing, we have our thing. It’s no disrespect to you and yours.”

Integration says, “Your stuff is better. Can we please can use your stuff?”

Now if you disagree then you would have to address why you never saw white kids bussed to black schools for too long; that is enough to address that refutation.

2) “Integration” implies that “the white folks stuff is better” by default resulting in a lot of issues with black self-esteem later.

3) Black neighborhoods, universities, and businesses had no choice but to be nit tight. They had to take care of one another. At the very least, black businesses knew they would receive at least a certain amount of revenue. Integration throws that out the window. A lot of black people left to go where with white people were and the money left with them. This results in a gradual erosion of these social necessities.

I would love to go into more detail (like how this is incredibly similar to the history of the Native American) but this is already long and there is more to say. I will make one last observation and then conclude...

(cont.)

Hip hop has become the figurehead for the problems of black youth. Recently, Washington Redskins safety, Sean Taylor was shot in the leg and later died of complications from blood loss. Jason Whitlock had this to say:

“You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration.”

Point taken Mr.Whitlock, and yet I really have to beg the question: how did it get to that point? I addressed this a while back in a previous note:

“***** you better have my money!” was said many a time during the pimp chronicles of the 70s. It is appalling this never gets mentioned while people are talking about the “Imus’ nappy headed hos” controversy. In those pimp movies I remember lots of “niggers” and “bitches” coming out the mouths of the actors.

This whole thing about “What’s wrong with the kids?” is invalid because we got it from our parents who did not put themselves in check before we were born. Culture and stereotypes do not just appear out the blue, certainly not in this age of media. It festers and gradually becomes whatever the generation in charge allows it to become. It is up to the current generation to give guidance to the youngsters so that they may know what to value, what is important.”

Black people have a huge issue with “heroism,” which here means fabricating the past and leaving out whatever negative qualities might stain the time period or specific person. This farce offers no way to understand how things suddenly went from “I’m black and I’m proud and I know my history and I know my roots!” to “What it is nigga!” Our parents did the same. Stop letting them lie to you.

A lot of our generation lacks a two parent household. This is a phenomenon that occurred nationwide, not just in one city. Someone brought up to me they know plenty of good parents who raise their kids right and all that goodness. I responded:

“Your personal experience is micro in comparison to the whole. It is not a slight to you, but it is true. You say it is not always the case but for the black child in America it is often the case.”

The situation on hand today begins with the home. To forget that is to slight the entire situation. I do not say this to place blame, merely to address the origin. **** blame. At this point, it is simply time to address the issue, offer open lines of communication. It is here. Shrug. Let’s dialogue and take action. Martin Luther King Jr. died but the principle remains. He is not resurrecting. Why wait?

* I would also like to note that the 60s to early 90s had a lot of orchestrated things happen. This issue is not simply A to B, but each of these issues require a lot of material to cover properly. .

I really meant to make this much shorter and I apologize. If you would like me to address anything else PM me, send a message, reply in comments, etc.

Thanks for your time.

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Damn that took a long time. 😆

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Spits on shoe; spits on face.

Your boy Imus is back. So much for racial tolerance. No matter. The old fart'll die soon of old age so that's good. But i love that he has to watch his every single word and diss white people only like he did on his show this morning.

I noticed all the Whites clapping upon his return too. As if saying "Yea! Your back! And we, as a race, support your racist view! And now let's clap even louder and laugh to show Blacks that we support you and your views too." Yet deny it later and say they have Black friends, lol. I hate when White people tell me that. Pathetic.

I was watching this commercial yesterday where they were selling an Oldies CD and throughout the program the were showing clips of the 50's era in black and white and i dunno, maybe i couldn't help it, but all i could think about was how Blacks weren't allowed at that concert (even at times when the singers were black)or that dance hall or that popular malt shop all because White people hated them cause of skin color. Blacks were unallowed near anywhere that was cool and fun at that time cause of White hate. Just like now, in a way. Except Blacks are allowed but the hate remains. Civil Rights laws made it illegal for Whites to discriminate legally but the hate remains.

However, great songs on both sides but i just can't imagine any Black person having any fun at all during those times in the U.S. not even by a little bit. Unless it was hidden so they would'nt be killed. I would even look at the White artists and think:What were that chances that he was racist. Most likely high.

And you all think I'm bad. My boys I grew up with, that are still around, are worse. I hate racism but they just don't like Whites period. Like they always talk about hunting Whites and going to other extremities. Sucks but that how they feel.

It's kinda funny, when a white guy makes a racial joke, he is a racist white trash piece of shit, but Dave Chappelle and Carlos Mencia do it every episode of their show, and it is perfectly fine.

Fvck those nappy-headed hos.

OMGOMGOMG!

Hate crime. You can't say mean stuff about black people 'cause you'll make them cry.

Originally posted by chithappens
[BThanks for your time.

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Damn that took a long time. 😆 [/B]

You're crazy if you think FoTN will bother reading that, he's ducked away and will lay in wait until his previous idiot-post are buried, then he'll spring forth (again) with his same ignorant rhetoric. It's just what he does.

I'll read your novel-like post tomorrow.

An interesting read no doubt, chit happens.

Just couple of things, i don't feel like an essay, but since you were discussing history I wondered why you didn't mention anything about the caste systems in India that spread throughout Asia and Europe followed by the rest of the eastern world followed by here, the west. I just thought that by striking the heart or the root of the matter by addressing what created the beginning of systematic racism, this mess, it would've been the best way to establish a more profound and significant understand.

Also, i disagree with Jason Whitlock's comment when he said “You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration."

I grew up listening to rap, particularly the type he's talking about that apparently is causing death, dysfunction, and murder. And so have most of the men in my family. We all turned out fine. None of us are incarcerated never have been. Same here. We've never murdered anyone. We're all family orientated and of faith although we're no angels (who is?). We love and respect women. The duty of family and fatherhood is and would be an honor. We have good values and would help the next man, etc. And we listened to G. rap more that we listened to anything else. For years and years. And we turned out well. Thanks to good upbringing.

And that's the thing. It's not about violent rap music. It's about bad parenting. Alot of parents in the ghetto nowadays suck. Period. And that's partly due to a sense of hopelessness or an absent breadwinner but don't blame rap for a kid not having good values and maybe not valuing life cause his/her mother didn't care to instill standards and tell them right from wrong. Don't blame rap when a black dudes shoots another black dude cause they were too dumb to have a logical understanding or arrangement among each other due to their parents not caring about instilling reason and rules in them initially; encouraging them to get an education or to use talents or do something anything productive. I blame the parent whom doesn't turn that TV off after hours and engaging them mentally spiritually physically and emotionally in a good way.

Parents and upbringing are the root cause of the problems with young black males and females in the inner city. Not 50cent.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
An interesting read no doubt, chit happens.

Just couple of things, i don't feel like an essay, but since you were discussing history I wondered why you didn't mention anything about the caste systems in India that spread throughout Asia and Europe followed by the rest of the eastern world followed by here, the west. I just thought that by striking the heart or the root of the matter by addressing what created the beginning of systematic racism, this mess, it would've been the best way to establish a more profound and significant understand.

Also, i disagree with Jason Whitlock's comment when he said “You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration."

I grew up listening to rap, particularly the type he's talking about that apparently is causing death, dysfunction, and murder. And so have most of the men in my family. We all turned out fine. None of us are incarcerated never have been. Same here. We've never murdered anyone. We're all family orientated and of faith although we're no angels (who is?). We love and respect women. The duty of family and fatherhood is and would be an honor. We have good values and would help the next man, etc. And we listened to G. rap more that we listened to anything else. For years and years. And we turned out well. Thanks to good upbringing.

And that's the thing. It's not about violent rap music. It's about bad parenting. Alot of parents in the ghetto nowadays suck. Period. And that's partly due to a sense of hopelessness or an absent breadwinner but don't blame rap for a kid not having good values and maybe not valuing life cause his/her mother didn't care to instill standards and tell them right from wrong. Don't blame rap when a black dudes shoots another black dude cause they were too dumb to have a logical understanding or arrangement among each other due to their parents not caring about instilling reason and rules in them initially; encouraging them to get an education or to use talents or do something anything productive. I blame the parent whom doesn't turn that TV off after hours and engaging them mentally spiritually physically and emotionally in a good way.

Parents and upbringing are the root cause of the problems with young black males and females in the inner city. Not 50cent.

While I do agree that parenting is at the heart of the problem but the media, music, games and the like have a major influence in the behavior and view of modern youth which is what I believe that statement was about. Not the cause but a role in the development, you have stated on many occasions that to you violence and conflict is the ONLY answer that you choose.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
OMGOMGOMG!

Hate crime. You can't say mean stuff about black people 'cause you'll make them cry.

Nigga please.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
While I do agree that parenting is at the heart of the problem but the media, music, games and the like have a major influence in the behavior and view of modern youth which is what I believe that statement was about. Not the cause but a role in the development, you have stated on many occasions that to you violence and conflict is the ONLY answer that you choose.

The negative effects all of those elements you've mentioned combined can't even match the damage bad parenting yields. For parents are a childs' most significant influence cause parent have the power to stay all and/or most negative influences.

And if so, I have stated that violence is the only means if it physically means defending yourself. I actually said fighting but, o well. Like, haha, i remember someone wished me cancer in here and i said I'd fight that too, always fight. Life itself can be a fight to most people. Do you give up, wither and perish,? no, you fight back. Always. That or die. Whether it's physically, mentally, spiritually, and/or emotionally.

And always fighting may be the answer in a way. Not fighting is disastrous. Not fighting goes against the very concept of evolution and adaption. Not fighting is retardant, and can cause extinction. Look at anyone or any continent that hasn't fought and see how dead or oppressed the land is.

But like I said, physical violence should be the last option. But it should definitely be an option. And sometimes it ends up being the best.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
The negative effects all of those elements you've mentioned combined can't even match the damage bad parenting yields. For parents are a childs' most significant influence cause parent have the power to stay all and/or most negative influences.

And if so, I have stated that violence is the only means if it physically means defending yourself. I actually said fighting but, o well. Like, haha, i remember someone wished me cancer in here and i said I'd fight that too, always fight. Life itself can be a fight to most people. Do you give up, wither and perish,? no, you fight back. Always. That or die. Whether it's physically, mentally, spiritually, and/or emotionally.

And always fighting may be the answer in a way. Not fighting is disastrous. Not fighting goes against the very concept of evolution and adaption. Not fighting is retardant, and can cause extinction. Look at anyone or any continent that hasn't fought and see how dead or oppressed the land is.

But like I said, physical violence should be the last option. But it should definitely be an option. And sometimes it ends up being the best.

I actually greatly agree with this.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Spits on shoe; spits on face.

Your boy Imus is back. So much for racial tolerance. No matter. The old fart'll die soon of old age so that's good. But i love that he has to watch his every single word and diss white people only like he did on his show this morning.

I noticed all the Whites clapping upon his return too. As if saying "Yea! Your back! And we, as a race, support your racist view! And now let's clap even louder and laugh to show Blacks that we support you and your views too." Yet deny it later and say they have Black friends, lol. I hate when White people tell me that. Pathetic.

I was watching this commercial yesterday where they were selling an Oldies CD and throughout the program the were showing clips of the 50's era in black and white and i dunno, maybe i couldn't help it, but all i could think about was how Blacks weren't allowed at that concert (even at times when the singers were black)or that dance hall or that popular malt shop all because White people hated them cause of skin color. Blacks were unallowed near anywhere that was cool and fun at that time cause of White hate. Just like now, in a way. Except Blacks are allowed but the hate remains. Civil Rights laws made it illegal for Whites to discriminate legally but the hate remains.

However, great songs on both sides but i just can't imagine any Black person having any fun at all during those times in the U.S. not even by a little bit. Unless it was hidden so they would'nt be killed. I would even look at the White artists and think:What were that chances that he was racist. Most likely high.

And you all think I'm bad. My boys I grew up with, that are still around, are worse. I hate racism but they just don't like Whites period. Like they always talk about hunting Whites and going to other extremities. Sucks but that how they feel.

You missed a spot, get back down there and do it better this time.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Your boy Imus is back. So much for racial tolerance. No matter. The old fart'll die soon of old age so that's good. But i love that he has to watch his every single word and diss white people only like he did on his show this morning.

But its okay when Dave Chappelle does it?

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
The negative effects all of those elements you've mentioned combined can't even match the damage bad parenting yields. For parents are a childs' most significant influence cause parent have the power to stay all and/or most negative influences.

And if so, I have stated that violence is the only means if it physically means defending yourself. I actually said fighting but, o well. Like, haha, i remember someone wished me cancer in here and i said I'd fight that too, always fight. Life itself can be a fight to most people. Do you give up, wither and perish,? no, you fight back. Always. That or die. Whether it's physically, mentally, spiritually, and/or emotionally.

And always fighting may be the answer in a way. Not fighting is disastrous. Not fighting goes against the very concept of evolution and adaption. Not fighting is retardant, and can cause extinction. Look at anyone or any continent that hasn't fought and see how dead or oppressed the land is.

But like I said, physical violence should be the last option. But it should definitely be an option. And sometimes it ends up being the best.

While this does make sense and is somewhat well thought out, it is in complete contradiction to what you have said before. You have never made the term "fighting" to mean resisting and you example of pacifist to this definition would be considered fighters which you have said never accomplished anything.

Originally posted by Kinneary
But its okay when Dave Chappelle does it?

Thing is, Dave's a comedian and specifically does comedy for a living. It's his primary shtick. And he makes fun of Black people just as much too.

Imus is first a radio broadcast journalist. Not a stand up comedian. And he should know the shock jock thing doesn't suit him cause he's not funny anyway.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Thing is, Dave's a comedian and specifically does comedy for a living. It's his primary shtick. And he makes fun of Black people just as much too.

Imus is first a radio broadcast journalist. Not a stand up comedian. And he should know the shock jock thing doesn't suit him cause he's not funny anyway.

Shock Jocks don't need to be funny, that is the nature of a Shock Jock... Shock

carlos mencia is one crazy guy. the stuff he says is eye opening because how can he get away with what he says? hes funny but damn

Originally posted by Da Pittman
While this does make sense and is somewhat well thought out, it is in complete contradiction to what you have said before. You have never made the term "fighting" to mean resisting and you example of pacifist to this definition would be considered fighters which you have said never accomplished anything.

Yes I did. When I said "fight" i meant resistance, sort of. Resiting tolerance, rather, in the sense of fighting back in accordance to the way of the opposing force. That white guy on the train that called me a n.igger for no reason would've been met with physical resistance had he threatened me physically, without him even touching me. The threat's enough. Emotionally you have to fight back people whom abuse by way of however said person emotionally makes you feel by his actions. Mentally, when someone abusively tells you off all the time for no apparent reason other than devious ones and tries to make you and everyone else believe you're no good, I believe fighting that person/s back is the only way out, by resisting or not accepting what he's abusively offering. Spiritually, well that we live in this country means that people no longer have to resist or fight to practice what we faithfully believe in spiritually but that came by way of fighting, initially.

This is what I've always meant and still mean.

Pacifism can, to some people, be a form of fighting cause it demonstrates a way of resiting. ex: avoiding a fight. That way doesn't qualify, in a way, in my opinion. I already explained how detrimental that way can be. The reason i don't really regard pacifism as a true form of fighting are in my examples above, which are also, in no way pacifist. Pacifist aren't as aggressive as one needs to be in order to fight the way one needs to in order to resist tolerance, or fight, and survive.

I don't, never have and never will, watch or at least never got into, Star Trek, even though i do find Capt. Kirk's pause-acting/speech mannerism act ridiculously hilarious when i see it when it somehow pops up somewhere in the media, but i remember hearing or reading about someone on that show saying "Resistance is futile" Meaning resisting is pointless. Resistance: What pacifism is and uses. But I say fighting, however, would never be. Cause with that way, at least there's (always) hope.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Shock Jocks don't need to be funny, that is the nature of a Shock Jock... [b]Shock [/B]

But he's not one. Howard Stern is one. And shock value does have an element of humor to it. Otherwise it'd be purely derogatory and insulting.

Imus interviews Presidents, Senators, Governors, millionaires almost on a daily basis. Formal people. He's a broadcast journalist with a major news organization. He has no business being a shock jock. Unless he doesn't wanna be taken serious. Which i don't think he wants but got anyway with what he said.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Yes I did. When I said "fight" i meant resistance, sort of. Resiting tolerance, rather, in the sense of fighting back in accordance to the way of the opposing force. That white guy on the train that called me a n.igger for no reason would've been met with physical resistance had he threatened me physically, without him even touching me. The threat's enough. Emotionally you have to fight back people whom abuse by way of however said person emotionally makes you feel by his actions. Mentally, when someone abusively tells you off all the time for no apparent reason other than devious ones and tries to make you and everyone else believe you're no good, I believe fighting that person/s back is the only way out, by resisting or not accepting what he's abusively offering. Spiritually, well that we live in this country means that people no longer have to resist or fight to practice what we faithfully believe in spiritually but that came by way of fighting, initially.

This is what I've always meant and still mean.

Pacifism can, to some people, be a form of fighting cause it demonstrates a way of resiting. ex: avoiding a fight. That way doesn't qualify, in a way, in my opinion. I already explained how detrimental that way can be. The reason i don't really regard pacifism as a true form of fighting are in my examples above, which are also, in no way pacifist. Pacifist aren't as aggressive as one needs to be in order to fight the way one needs to in order to resist tolerance, or fight, and survive.

I don't, never have and never will, watch or at least never got into, Star Trek, even though i do find Capt. Kirk's pause-acting/speech mannerism act ridiculously hilarious when i see it when it somehow pops up somewhere in the media, but i remember hearing or reading about someone on that show saying "Resistance is futile" Meaning resisting is pointless. Resistance: What pacifism is and uses. But I say fighting, however, would never be. Cause with that way, at least there's (always) hope.

Nice back peddling, you never even give a inkling that your definition of "fighting" meant resistance.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Im saying that because they believed in being passive and they failed in their endeavors in their time on Earth. Everything they've done has been in vain. All cause they didn't want to fight. They did it indirectly and got smashed. Had they taken direct action in the physical sense then there would've been change.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Fighting is the answer when there's no other choice or when it's the best choice. Turning the other cheek is not an option.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Yea cause turning the other cheek worked just fine for Jesus, Ghandi, and M.K.L.

Pfft. Please.

Passifism never gets results.

And so on…