my brothers friend was murdered.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I will dare to do exactly as I please. As I've already said, how many would do the same for free? I know that, in my own country every single person I know who's entered the army, has done so for the money and that's the main selling point that's pumped through the media.

I'm not comparing their daily duties, to that of gangsters. Why can't you understand that? I'm comparing the risks involved, which each individual knowingly enters, from each separate occupation.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Am I denying that soldiers should be paid? No. I don't know about your friends in the U.K., but here in the U.S.A., the people who I know that joined the armed forces aren't doing it just for the money.

You're oversimplifying the similarities that exist between soldiers and gang members. Soldiers run the risk of being shot/killed, yes, but in a line of work far more noble than theft, pimping, and drugs. Soldiers do not "have it coming." Gang members do.

From what I've heard, read about and the people I've spoken to from the U.S army, I've been hearing a different story. This is before they actually go out and fight in wars of course, everyone's gong to say they did it for their country then. This is when they're just applying and are absolutely ecstatic at the idea of getting paid, and not having to pay for meals and board etc.

Oh, so now we're entering that moral upheaval bit. What you've said is subjective, soldiers kill people; I see no difference in killing a person in the desert, because you've been told to by your country, and killing another gangster in a drive by, due to a turf war. Or are you putting more worth on the members of your own country, than those of others?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
From what I've heard, read about and the people I've spoken to from the U.S army, I've been hearing a different story. This is before they actually go out and fight in wars of course, everyone's gong to say they did it for their country then. This is when they're just applying and are absolutely ecstatic at the idea of getting paid, and not having to pay for meals and board etc.

Oh, so now we're entering that moral upheaval bit. What you've said is subjective, soldiers kill people; I see no difference in killing a person in the desert, because you've been told to by your country, and killing another gangster in a drive by, due to a turf war. Or are you putting more worth on the members of your own country, than those of others?

Ah, you are mistaken; I am referring to the armed services in general, you are speaking just to the military action in Iraq. Despite the machinations of the current administration, the United States Armed Services' duty is to defend the United States, not to kill others. I disagree with the conflict in Iraq as much as you probably do.

I do not base the value of one's life by what country they're from. There are times when I weep for the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians who have been killed or displaced by this military action. I would never do that for lives lost in a gang war.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Like I said, there are better paying jobs in the United States that don't involve serious risk.

Ah, you are mistaken; I am referring to the armed services in general, you are speaking just to the military action in Iraq. Despite the machinations of the current administration, the United States Armed Services' duty is to defend the United States, not to kill others. I disagree with the conflict in Iraq as much as you probably do.

I do not base the value of one's life by what country they're from. There are times when I weep for the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians who have been killed or displaced by this military action. I would never do that for lives lost in a gang war.

Without, free food and board. The thought of earning and stock piling it all till you get home, is a very attractive one.

The armed services' job though, is to do pretty much whatever the country feels is necessary to deter whatever they deem to be a threat, for instance the Iraq war.

You have my up most respect for that, there are far too many who do not see a life as a life, if it is not in possession of the passport of their nation.

For me, I think of all lives as being equal. Yes, what gang members do is definitely wrong, but they're still living, breathing, thinking human beings and I can't just dismiss a death as being earned.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
The armed services' job though, is to do pretty much whatever the country feels is necessary to deter whatever they deem to be a threat, for instance the Iraq war.[b]

[b]For me, I think of all lives as being equal. Yes, what gang members do is definitely wrong, but they're still living, breathing, thinking human beings and I can't just dismiss a death as being earned.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Am I denying that soldiers should be paid? No. I don't know about your friends in the U.K., but here in the U.S.A., the people who I know that joined the armed forces aren't doing it just for the money.

You're oversimplifying the similarities that exist between soldiers and gang members. Soldiers run the risk of being shot/killed, yes, but in a line of work far more noble than theft, pimping, and drugs. Soldiers do not "have it coming." Gang members do.

Originally posted by Strangelove
The conflict the Iraq is the only preemptive strike America has ever been a part of.

My point isn't about past wars or present ones. Applicants to the armed forces, apply in the full knowledge (or should do) that they may well have to take part in a war, for whatever reason, not always one they'll agree with - in the name of their country.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
My point isn't about past wars or present ones. Applicants to the armed forces, apply in the full knowledge (or should do) that they may well have to take part in a war, for whatever reason, not always one they'll agree with - in the name of their country.

Originally posted by backdoorman
Why is killing Iraqis "for your country" in foreign land more noble than selling drugs?

Originally posted by Strangelove
As you obviously failed to read, I'm not talking about the Iraq military action.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
My point isn't about past wars or present ones. Applicants to the armed forces, apply in the full knowledge (or should do) that they may well have to take part in a war, for whatever reason, not always one they'll agree with - in the name of their country.

I agree. However, if one soldier gets, say, his neck shot, like I did, or someone loses their legs, like my buddy, did we, as you so eloquently put it, "have it coming"?

Originally posted by Impediment
I agree. However, if one soldier gets, say, his neck shot, like I did, or someone loses their legs, like my buddy, did we, as you so eloquently put it, "have it coming"?

I never put it like that.

What I said was, that people enter the military in the full knowledge that they may be injured or killed. So in the most vague sense you did have it coming, not because of some moral or karma type thing, but as it is the job of being in the military, to pretty much be in harms way.
That's not me trying to take away any of the courage that has to go into it, it's just me saying that that's what can and does happen.

Originally posted by backdoorman
Ok. Why is being an American soldier more noble a line of work than selling drugs?

Originally posted by Strangelove
Are you suggesting that selling drugs is somehow more noble?

Originally posted by backdoorman
No, I am asking you why you think being an American soldier is more noble than selling drugs.

If you have no logical reasoning for such a claim you should just say so.
Why did it occur to me? It seemed like the sort of thing people say without giving it much thought. It'd be interesting if you proved this wasn't the case with you.

I do have a logical basis for my claim.

So, can we get back to the fact that the thread starter is concerned about her brother?

Originally posted by Syren
So, can we get back to the fact that the thread starter is concerned about her brother?

Originally posted by BlackC@
Well I'm a pacifist, so I don't believe in war of any kind. But when the Revolution comes I will have to destroy you all.