Originally posted by Apolloknight
Killing murder's/villains is only wrong in the eyes of someone who believes it is, and the circumstances that influence it.If you don't believe in the law, killing is not wrong
If you don't believe in the bible, see above
If you don't believe in a second chance, ditto.
Its all up the the person.
That logic only applies if your belief system has any bearing on the truth of the matter, which isn't logical or true.
For example I could really, really want to justify and condone killing. I might want killing to be right so much it becomes more than opinion or belief, it suddenly becomes truth and that suddenly means killing is right? By that logic I could really want a pile of money in front of me enough that there will be a pile of money in front of me. I'm not saying that any-ones opinions here are right or wrong, just that IMO they have no bearing on the truth of morality which is (IMO) that killing is wrong.
Originally posted by willRules
That logic only applies if your belief system has any bearing on the truth of the matter, which isn't logical or true.For example I could really, really want to justify and condone killing. I might want killing to be right so much it becomes more than opinion or belief, it suddenly becomes truth and that suddenly means killing is right? By that logic I could really want a pile of money in front of me enough that there will be a pile of money in front of me. I'm not saying that any-ones opinions here are right or wrong, just that IMO they have no bearing on the truth of morality which is (IMO) that killing is wrong.
Morality is ambiguous though...ermm....what's morally right and what's morally wrong comes down to ones own personal beliefs. Which sadly brings us back to Apollos initial point... sucks to go round in circles. 🙁
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Morality is ambiguous though...ermm....what's morally right and what's morally wrong comes down to ones own personal beliefs.
That depends on if you believe in something that is morally right and wrong which stands in place, regardless of people's opinions of right and wrong. Like, if someone had their opinion that the sun didn't exist, would that have any bearing on the suns existence? Of course it wouldn't ✅
This is the difference I'm trying to highlight....
I believe this is right.
This is right.
Originally posted by willRules
That depends on if you believe in something that is morally right and wrong which stands in place, regardless of people's opinions of right and wrong. Like, if someone had their opinion that the sun didn't exist, would that have any bearing on the suns existence? Of course it wouldn't ✅This is the difference I'm trying to highlight....
I believe this is right.
This is right.
That example doesn't work...though 😬 . The Sun is something physical, Morality, love etc...are all metaphysical...making the whole issue very obtuse. The definition of metaphysical aspects such as love and morality vary from individual to individual.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That example doesn't work...though 😬 . The Sun is something physical, Morality, love etc...are all metaphysical...making the whole issue very obtuse. The definition of metaphysical aspects such as love and morality vary from individual to individual.
Fair enough, it wasn't a good comparison with tangible objects and whilst I understand that it would be an incredibly difficult concept to work and have someone judge over (Unless like me you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being) my point still stands that there could (and IMO is) a structure of morality that isn't altered by the bearing of man's opinions or beliefs. ✅
Originally posted by willRules
Fair enough, it wasn't a good comparison with tangible objects and whilst I understand that it would be an incredibly difficult concept to work and have someone judge over (Unless like me you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being) my point still stands that there could (and IMO is) a structure of morality that isn't altered by the bearing of man's opinions or beliefs. ✅
Well that's the thing, think about it. The whole world(Even when it was a much bigger place and broken down into smaller civilisations) has eventually come to the same general consensus on morality...anywhere you go the outline behind what's right and wrong is more or less the same. Which is pretty impressive IMO...
And yeah I do believe in God...even though most people tell me that I don't strike them as a religious person...
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well that's the thing, think about it. The whole world(Even when it was a much bigger place and broken down into smaller civilisations) has eventually come to the same general consensus on morality...anywhere you go the outline behind what's right and wrong is more or less the same. Which is pretty impressive IMO...And yeah I do believe in God...even though most people tell me that I don't strike them as a religious person...
Yeah, it's a good point (As I'm typing this I realise how much I have digressed from the original subject and I apologise for this) and I'm glad that you've noticed the similarities between various civilisations and morality, when sooo many focus on the differences ✅
If you are interested in this topic here's a link to really intelligent, yet bias and thought provoking book I have read by a super famous English author......
Originally posted by NewjakOkay now you're being intentionally stupid. We've covered this point. I am not superheros in postion to do such things, nor am I the government that has ahold of the serial killers.
No hypocrites because if you want to question why I don't want to kill someone with this idea of indirectly being the cause of other people's lives then you are hypocritical because you do not go around killing murderers.
Also note that despite what you'd like to think I'm talking about serial killers, not run of the mill murderers.
Yes you are stll a hypocrites for saying that we can't judge your beliefs while you're sitting there judging other peoples. No I'm not a hypocrite because despite your foolish belifs of what mine are, they do not contradict.
Originally posted by NewjakReading comprehension problems there Newjak? Need I reming you that you also would need to have been in a postion similar to what I just refered to in order for it to apply?
I can take a belief just fine but when you try and pawn it off on me like you actually know I should be held responsible for what a person does then you for not killing murderers are a hypocrite if it is so factual.
No? Then you are intentonally misinterpretng what I'm saying and thus not arguing against my points at all.
Originally posted by NewjakStrawmanning like that makes you look stupid. Try to debate my actual points so you don't look lke an ass.
I mean literally I guess every person that dies in this world at the hands of a convicted felon we should all be guilty for right 🙂 []/b]
Originally posted by NewjakYou have nothing left to argue. You're not even addressing my points but are making it out that I've made claims that I have not.
[B]So when a Doctor saves a convicted felon he just became an accessory to murder nice try bad logic 🙂Yes [b]protecting people in danger is good but trying to proclaim that by letting someone live I am responsible for what they person does in the future not really.
Like I said apparently Doctors should just not treat some people 🙂 [/B]
If you wish to debate It'd be advised that you try debating the persons points nad not your infantile veiws of what the other person is saying.
Self righteous prick.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosI'm not saying kill all the villians. Hell, some villians have proven to be able to reform and become good guys.
Kay, I can more or less see your point there.
Emma Frost and Rogue come to mind as former villians turned good. Though neither of them had a really high body count either so they wouldn't have been targeted in the first place.
Originally posted by willRules
That logic only applies if your belief system has any bearing on the truth of the matter, which isn't logical or true.For example I could really, really want to justify and condone killing. I might want killing to be right so much it becomes more than opinion or belief, it suddenly becomes truth and that suddenly means killing is right? By that logic I could really want a pile of money in front of me enough that there will be a pile of money in front of me. I'm not saying that any-ones opinions here are right or wrong, just that IMO they have no bearing on the truth of morality which is (IMO) that killing is wrong.
Pretty much echoing everything Exodus said. Everyone has different views and opinions, some don't believe in the death penalty, but let them walk in on their 4 year old daughter get raped and watch how quickly their views might change (sorry for the dramatic example).
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Pretty much echoing everything Exodus said. Everyone has different views and opinions, some don't believe in the death penalty, but let them walk in on their 4 year old daughter get raped and watch how quickly their views might change (sorry for the dramatic example).
Oh I don't disagree with you or Exodus that people have differing opinions concerning morality, I was just arguing a point a step further than that ✅
I think there are cases when its acceptable, in exceptional circumstances. It would also solve the problem of why say Batman lets the Joker live every time no matter how many people he kills, it sort of puts some of the blame for the deaths on Batman when hes had so many chances to stop Joker. The same argument applies to other heroes and rogues of course.
On the other hand they are only fictional characters and while in the real world the mass murdering rogues would be dealt with permanently, a great character like Joker for example doesn't come around very often and killing the character off for good only really lessens future stories he could appear in.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
OK here's a slight twist on the question.Were the people in the UltimateMarvelUniverse in the wrong when they used Sentinels to kill mutants? (ie could they be seen as sufficiently dangerous to exterminate?)
The criminals should be stopped yes. But the civilians no.
You are just trying to change it from criminal do possibly dangerous.
The possibly dangerous should be registered. The criminals. Taken care of.
Thats IF they were cold killers.