Originally posted by Photon009
It still is a major punching feat. For example, if a human, or even say, Rhino, was propulled at that speed at the meteor, he wouldve been killed probably. I'm just saying that's it's not all punching. It's like 80% a punching feat and 20% a speed/propulsion feat.
...
durability
noun
permanence by virtue of the power to resist stress or force; "they advertised the durability of their products"
Originally posted by SpookySmurph
...durability
noun
permanence by virtue of the power to resist stress or force; "they advertised the durability of their products"
Considering he PUNCHED it and didnt just fly into it, it's strength not durability. I guess you could make a case of it being durability of his hand, but that goes with strength.
Originally posted by Bransolute
No, it's 50% durability, and 50% speed.That's like saying a bullet is uber strong when fired out of a gun.
It has nothing to do with strength... at all. 😐
So you are saying that if Cannonball (blasting, which makes him invulnerable ....and thus having max durability) was propelled at the speed of light towards an Earth-sized planet, he would be able to demolish it? After all, while blasting his durability is off the charts, and since he is being propelled at light speed (say assume he manages to achieve 'c'😉 he would be at the maximum level of speed possible (at least per physics, although I have an arm's list of comic book characters who can go faster than c)
Thus, under such conditions, you are telling me that a c-travelling Cannonball who is blasting would have the same effect on a planet as a 0.0001c travelling Superman....still bloody fast, but several MAGNITUDES slower than the true-c .....Cannonball would be travelling at 670 616 629 miles per hour, while Superman would be travelling at 67061.6629
miles per hour ....a 'mere' fraction of the speed Cannonball would be moving at. Cannonball would be at his max durability since he would be blasting, and just to make sure that his blasting isn't up to snuff at c-speed let's assume that Galactus makes him TOTALLY invulnerable.
Thus, Cannonball is moving at C-speed, and he is totally invulnerable. But his level of strength is THE SAME AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Thus, he would be able to do more damage to Earth than Superman at 0.0001C?
Is that what you are telling us?
And if not, then there is MORE to the equation than durability and speed. Much more.
Going back to bullets and ballistics, the damage propagated on a target does not stem from speed alone. While speed is an important component, it is not the final solution. In many cases soldiers and cops (particular cops) will prefer a slower heavier bullet over a faster high-velocity rifle bullet, because when it comes to stopping power it is the amount of energy delivered to the target that counts.
There are policeofficers who have died after being shot by crooks that had just absorbed a fullisade of bullets from the cop's gun, but those bullets were so fast that they simply went in and went out, without doing sufficient damage. That damage is called stopping power. Several police departments have opted out of 9mm guns (with fast whizzy bullets) to go to .45s (that will knock a man down with one shot due to the energy delivered). Others opt for either soft nosed bullets (which expand and cause a lot of energy to be delivered to the target and will drop a man dead, instead of full-metal jacket rounds that are found in some rifles that can go 3 times the speed of sound and penetrate the engine block of a car, but will go through a person unless target placement is exact). There are also 'specialist' bullets like the razor that have immense 'hydro-shock' effect on a human body.
In the Phillipines during WW2, Allied soldiers would shoot at yelling charging natives many times and not manage to stop all of them (the natives were high on local brew or drugs or something). But when they would use their handguns ...Colt 45s ...those people would go down immediately, and stay down.
More recently there is the whole debate about the M-16 (and its 5.56 round) and the AK-47 (and its 7.62 round). The M-16s round is smaller, faster, and more accurate. The Kalashnikov round is larger, slower, and less accurate.
PEople have been hit several times with the M-16, and not gone down and managed to even keep firing. A single bullet from a Kalashnikov hitting your LEG will keep you down. (The good thing for our soldiers, though, is that they are very good shots ....thus they tend to kill the enemy quite well. The enemy on the other hand tends to be quite bad at aiming, thus they tend to 'spray and pray'😉
Anyways, a single M-16 round may very well go right through a Melon and only leave a hole.
A colt-45 bullet will make that melon literally explode.
Anyways, why do our soldiers not use 7.62 rounds? Several reasons, chief among them being that we (as well as NATO) use the 5.56 round (apart from sniper rifles, which use larger rounds), and also due to the fact that at times it is better to injure the enemy (making sure that his friends are busy tending to his wounds) rather than killing him (whereby his friends can just leave him there and continue fighting). That is soldier doctrine.
A cop on the other hand will want a round that when fired will stop the target in his tracks. That is cop doctrine. If a cop fires at you he is not firing to wound you, contrary to what TV shows may claim. It means that he has reached the level of last resort, and he is shooting to put you down (not necessary kill you, but put you down is pretty self-explanatory). He needs to keep you from killing him, his partner, and other civilians. If you have a weapon, and you do not give up, you will die.
Thus, again, are you SURE that it is only 'speed and durability.' Because a M-16 round is far more durable than the exposed-lead round of a 45, and travels far faster, but have very different effects.
My opinion of what would happen if Cannotball (at C-speed and perffect durability) flew at Earth: what would happen is Cannonball would shoot right through the earth, like an armor piercing bullet through soft cheese that will not even expand, and the only damage would be a man-sized hole going through the planet and that is quickly sealed up by magma flow flowing out and solidifying into obsidian within an hour's time.
My opinion of what would happen if Superman (at 0.0001 C-speed, and mad as heck with his intention being to really mess up the Earth): Whether the Earth would shatter or not is open to opinion, but the LEAST that would happen is MAJOR tectonic movement, huge loss of life, possible knocking of the Earth out of its axis, and a HUGE gouge across the Earth (based on what he did to one of Jupiter's - or was it Saturn - moons when LEx won presidency)
Thus, are you certain it is '50% speed and 50% durability?' I say it is not ....speed is a factor, durability is a factor, but there is FAR more to the equation than that.
Originally posted by spetznaz
So you are saying that if Cannonball (blasting, which makes him invulnerable ....and thus having max durability) was propelled at the speed of light towards an Earth-sized planet, he would be able to demolish it? After all, while blasting his durability is off the charts, and since he is being propelled at light speed (say assume he manages to achieve 'c'😉 he would be at the maximum level of speed possible (at least per physics, although I have an arm's list of comic book characters who can go faster than c)Thus, under such conditions, you are telling me that a c-travelling Cannonball who is blasting would have the same effect on a planet as a 0.0001c travelling Superman....still bloody fast, but several MAGNITUDES slower than the true-c .....Cannonball would be travelling at 670 616 629 miles per hour, while Superman would be travelling at 67061.6629
miles per hour ....a 'mere' fraction of the speed Cannonball would be moving at. Cannonball would be at his max durability since he would be blasting, and just to make sure that his blasting isn't up to snuff at c-speed let's assume that Galactus makes him TOTALLY invulnerable.Thus, Cannonball is moving at C-speed, and he is totally invulnerable. But his level of strength is THE SAME AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Thus, he would be able to do more damage to Earth than Superman at 0.0001C?
Is that what you are telling us?
And if not, then there is MORE to the equation than durability and speed. Much more.
Going back to bullets and ballistics, the damage propagated on a target does not stem from speed alone. While speed is an important component, it is not the final solution. In many cases soldiers and cops (particular cops) will prefer a slower heavier bullet over a faster high-velocity rifle bullet, because when it comes to stopping power it is the amount of energy delivered to the target that counts.
There are policeofficers who have died after being shot by crooks that had just absorbed a fullisade of bullets from the cop's gun, but those bullets were so fast that they simply went in and went out, without doing sufficient damage. That damage is called stopping power. Several police departments have opted out of 9mm guns (with fast whizzy bullets) to go to .45s (that will knock a man down with one shot due to the energy delivered). Others opt for either soft nosed bullets (which expand and cause a lot of energy to be delivered to the target and will drop a man dead, instead of full-metal jacket rounds that are found in some rifles that can go 3 times the speed of sound and penetrate the engine block of a car, but will go through a person unless target placement is exact). There are also 'specialist' bullets like the razor that have immense 'hydro-shock' effect on a human body.
In the Phillipines during WW2, Allied soldiers would shoot at yelling charging natives many times and not manage to stop all of them (the natives were high on local brew or drugs or something). But when they would use their handguns ...Colt 45s ...those people would go down immediately, and stay down.
More recently there is the whole debate about the M-16 (and its 5.56 round) and the AK-47 (and its 7.62 round). The M-16s round is smaller, faster, and more accurate. The Kalashnikov round is larger, slower, and less accurate.
PEople have been hit several times with the M-16, and not gone down and managed to even keep firing. A single bullet from a Kalashnikov hitting your LEG will keep you down. (The good thing for our soldiers, though, is that they are very good shots ....thus they tend to kill the enemy quite well. The enemy on the other hand tends to be quite bad at aiming, thus they tend to 'spray and pray'😉
Anyways, a single M-16 round may very well go right through a Melon and only leave a hole.
A colt-45 bullet will make that melon literally explode.Anyways, why do our soldiers not use 7.62 rounds? Several reasons, chief among them being that we (as well as NATO) use the 5.56 round (apart from sniper rifles, which use larger rounds), and also due to the fact that at times it is better to injure the enemy (making sure that his friends are busy tending to his wounds) rather than killing him (whereby his friends can just leave him there and continue fighting). That is soldier doctrine.
A cop on the other hand will want a round that when fired will stop the target in his tracks. That is cop doctrine. If a cop fires at you he is not firing to wound you, contrary to what TV shows may claim. It means that he has reached the level of last resort, and he is shooting to put you down (not necessary kill you, but put you down is pretty self-explanatory). He needs to keep you from killing him, his partner, and other civilians. If you have a weapon, and you do not give up, you will die.Thus, again, are you SURE that it is only 'speed and durability.' Because a M-16 round is far more durable than the exposed-lead round of a 45, and travels far faster, but have very different effects.
My opinion of what would happen if Cannotball (at C-speed and perffect durability) flew at Earth: what would happen is Cannonball would shoot right through the earth, like an armor piercing bullet through soft cheese that will not even expand, and the only damage would be a man-sized hole going through the planet and that is quickly sealed up by magma flow flowing out and solidifying into obsidian within an hour's time.
My opinion of what would happen if Superman (at 0.0001 C-speed, and mad as heck with his intention being to really mess up the Earth): Whether the Earth would shatter or not is open to opinion, but the LEAST that would happen is MAJOR tectonic movement, huge loss of life, possible knocking of the Earth out of its axis, and a HUGE gouge across the Earth (based on what he did to one of Jupiter's - or was it Saturn - moons when LEx won presidency)
Thus, are you certain it is '50% speed and 50% durability?' I say it is not ....speed is a factor, durability is a factor, but there is FAR more to the equation than that.
As brilliant as I'm sure that was it nonetheless missed the point entirely 😬
Originally posted by spetznaz
So you are saying that if Cannonball (blasting, which makes him invulnerable ....and thus having max durability) was propelled at the speed of light towards an Earth-sized planet, he would be able to demolish it? After all, while blasting his durability is off the charts, and since he is being propelled at light speed (say assume he manages to achieve 'c'😉 he would be at the maximum level of speed possible (at least per physics, although I have an arm's list of comic book characters who can go faster than c)Thus, under such conditions, you are telling me that a c-travelling Cannonball who is blasting would have the same effect on a planet as a 0.0001c travelling Superman....still bloody fast, but several MAGNITUDES slower than the true-c .....Cannonball would be travelling at 670 616 629 miles per hour, while Superman would be travelling at 67061.6629
miles per hour ....a 'mere' fraction of the speed Cannonball would be moving at. Cannonball would be at his max durability since he would be blasting, and just to make sure that his blasting isn't up to snuff at c-speed let's assume that Galactus makes him TOTALLY invulnerable.Thus, Cannonball is moving at C-speed, and he is totally invulnerable. But his level of strength is THE SAME AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Thus, he would be able to do more damage to Earth than Superman at 0.0001C?
Is that what you are telling us?
And if not, then there is MORE to the equation than durability and speed. Much more.
Going back to bullets and ballistics, the damage propagated on a target does not stem from speed alone. While speed is an important component, it is not the final solution. In many cases soldiers and cops (particular cops) will prefer a slower heavier bullet over a faster high-velocity rifle bullet, because when it comes to stopping power it is the amount of energy delivered to the target that counts.
There are policeofficers who have died after being shot by crooks that had just absorbed a fullisade of bullets from the cop's gun, but those bullets were so fast that they simply went in and went out, without doing sufficient damage. That damage is called stopping power. Several police departments have opted out of 9mm guns (with fast whizzy bullets) to go to .45s (that will knock a man down with one shot due to the energy delivered). Others opt for either soft nosed bullets (which expand and cause a lot of energy to be delivered to the target and will drop a man dead, instead of full-metal jacket rounds that are found in some rifles that can go 3 times the speed of sound and penetrate the engine block of a car, but will go through a person unless target placement is exact). There are also 'specialist' bullets like the razor that have immense 'hydro-shock' effect on a human body.
In the Phillipines during WW2, Allied soldiers would shoot at yelling charging natives many times and not manage to stop all of them (the natives were high on local brew or drugs or something). But when they would use their handguns ...Colt 45s ...those people would go down immediately, and stay down.
More recently there is the whole debate about the M-16 (and its 5.56 round) and the AK-47 (and its 7.62 round). The M-16s round is smaller, faster, and more accurate. The Kalashnikov round is larger, slower, and less accurate.
PEople have been hit several times with the M-16, and not gone down and managed to even keep firing. A single bullet from a Kalashnikov hitting your LEG will keep you down. (The good thing for our soldiers, though, is that they are very good shots ....thus they tend to kill the enemy quite well. The enemy on the other hand tends to be quite bad at aiming, thus they tend to 'spray and pray'😉
Anyways, a single M-16 round may very well go right through a Melon and only leave a hole.
A colt-45 bullet will make that melon literally explode.Anyways, why do our soldiers not use 7.62 rounds? Several reasons, chief among them being that we (as well as NATO) use the 5.56 round (apart from sniper rifles, which use larger rounds), and also due to the fact that at times it is better to injure the enemy (making sure that his friends are busy tending to his wounds) rather than killing him (whereby his friends can just leave him there and continue fighting). That is soldier doctrine.
A cop on the other hand will want a round that when fired will stop the target in his tracks. That is cop doctrine. If a cop fires at you he is not firing to wound you, contrary to what TV shows may claim. It means that he has reached the level of last resort, and he is shooting to put you down (not necessary kill you, but put you down is pretty self-explanatory). He needs to keep you from killing him, his partner, and other civilians. If you have a weapon, and you do not give up, you will die.Thus, again, are you SURE that it is only 'speed and durability.' Because a M-16 round is far more durable than the exposed-lead round of a 45, and travels far faster, but have very different effects.
My opinion of what would happen if Cannotball (at C-speed and perffect durability) flew at Earth: what would happen is Cannonball would shoot right through the earth, like an armor piercing bullet through soft cheese that will not even expand, and the only damage would be a man-sized hole going through the planet and that is quickly sealed up by magma flow flowing out and solidifying into obsidian within an hour's time.
My opinion of what would happen if Superman (at 0.0001 C-speed, and mad as heck with his intention being to really mess up the Earth): Whether the Earth would shatter or not is open to opinion, but the LEAST that would happen is MAJOR tectonic movement, huge loss of life, possible knocking of the Earth out of its axis, and a HUGE gouge across the Earth (based on what he did to one of Jupiter's - or was it Saturn - moons when LEx won presidency)
Thus, are you certain it is '50% speed and 50% durability?' I say it is not ....speed is a factor, durability is a factor, but there is FAR more to the equation than that.
You gatdamned nerd~!!!
Gimme your lunch money, science boy!!
Originally posted by spetznazMore recently there is the whole debate about the M-16 (and its 5.56 round) and the AK-47 (and its 7.62 round). The M-16s round is smaller, faster, and more accurate. The Kalashnikov round is larger, slower, and less accurate.
PEople have been hit several times with the M-16, and not gone down and managed to even keep firing. A single bullet from a Kalashnikov hitting your LEG will keep you down. (The good thing for our soldiers, though, is that they are very good shots ....thus they tend to kill the enemy quite well. The enemy on the other hand tends to be quite bad at aiming, thus they tend to 'spray and pray'😉
Anyways, a single M-16 round may very well go right through a Melon and only leave a hole.
A colt-45 bullet will make that melon literally explode.Anyways, why do our soldiers not use 7.62 rounds? Several reasons, chief among them being that we (as well as NATO) use the 5.56 round (apart from sniper rifles, which use larger rounds), and also due to the fact that at times it is better to injure the enemy (making sure that his friends are busy tending to his wounds) rather than killing him (whereby his friends can just leave him there and continue fighting). That is soldier doctrine.
A cop on the other hand will want a round that when fired will stop the target in his tracks. That is cop doctrine. If a cop fires at you he is not firing to wound you, contrary to what TV shows may claim. It means that he has reached the level of last resort, and he is shooting to put you down (not necessary kill you, but put you down is pretty self-explanatory). He needs to keep you from killing him, his partner, and other civilians. If you have a weapon, and you do not give up, you will die.Thus, again, are you SURE that it is only 'speed and durability.' Because a M-16 round is far more durable than the exposed-lead round of a 45, and travels far faster, but have very different effects.
OT, but a 7.62 round is not less accurate than a 5.56 round. Using a m16 against an ak-47 completely misses the point, simply because the latter is a terrible firearm. High chances of IA, overheating, high recoil, inaccuracy and can fire only lead rounds iirc. 7.62 rounds are used in many sniper rifles around due to their increased power, which gives accuracy in a high-powered weapon.
As for why the US military uses 5.56 rounds, other than the reason you gave, the weight difference of 5.56 vs 7.62 is a sticking point, plus the more powerful rifles that use the round are not practical in qutie a few combat situations.
It's doesn't take more power to do anything. People forget that Bruce lee could split a brick with the appropriate strike, where as a man, 3 times his strength cannot. It's really about speed, the point of the strike, and the shock waves created by such. Wonder why a bullet hits one part of the body and does very little damage, but hit's another and destroys a life? It's all about where you hit, how you hit, and what is surrounding the affected area.
Originally posted by Soljer
Anyway - the Hulk feat is all about speed and durability. 🙂.
IMO, it's about speed, durability and the actual composition of the Rock. Superman hit WW much harder and faster than the Hulk was moving, and she hit Earth going far faster than light. And yet she only made a huge crater.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's doesn't take more power to do anything. People forget that Bruce lee could split a brick with the appropriate strike, where as a man, 3 times his strength cannot. It's really about speed, the point of the strike, and the shock waves created by such. Wonder why a bullet hits one part of the body and does very little damage, but hit's another and destroys a life? It's all about where you hit, how you hit, and what is surrounding the affected area.
I can answer that one. If you have taken some martial arts, you should have learnt that strikes always go through an object, clenching of the fist/cocking of wrist for knife and palm strikes is done just before hitting the target and that relaxation and withdrawal of the striking appendage is immediate after the strike. This increases power. There really is nothing more to it that technique and conditioning.