What's more important:- national security or human rights

This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

There is a happy equilibrium. As technology gets better, less freedoms will have to be infringed on. Facial recognition software is improving as computing power and software improves....

Hmmm...some people say that the tracking chips in the national drivers licenses are an infringement on privacy...I agree but I also see the other side of the story...how many lost or endangered people can we find with that?...

It is REALLY hard to think of everything and compromise.

When facial recognition software is perfected, people will modify how their face looks with prosthetics...and so on and so forth.

I am rambling now....

Originally posted by Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

just as they've been planning it for decades.

and its only going to get worse 🙂

Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

Originally posted by Bicnarok
This is an issue nowadays seeing as people get locked up without trail, tortured and can be branded a terrorist for minor things like demonstrating.

I personally think they are taking more control, and getting rid of many human rights by over-selling the terrorist threat.

Whear do peple get toturedd?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

"I told you so" bragging rights? I'd do it for that, tell me you wouldn't 😉

Explain these rights.

What rights are being taken away? I'm not saying you're not losing rights. I want to know what sortof rights you think we're losing, and what makes it worth jepordizing the lives of your family and friends.

Because frankly, my life hasn't changed much pre and post 9-11.

Originally posted by Captain King
Explain these rights.

What rights are being taken away? I'm not saying you're not losing rights. I want to know what sortof rights you think we're losing, and what makes it worth jepordizing the lives of your family and friends.

Because frankly, my life hasn't changed much pre and post 9-11.

maybe one day you´ll be in the wrong place at the wrong time and end up in a very small cell, and get asked questions you cannot answer get your past dug up and inspected and lets face it everyone´s done something daft in their past.

Torturing isn´t allowed in the sense of the Nazi´s "cutting bits off" and all that horrific stuff. But there are other unpleasant techniques which are readily used. Sleep depravation, being forced to sit in odd positions for long periods and other "borderline" techniques.

The best argument for these national security based measures is that "if youve got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". But if the government in charge of all these measures doesn´t like you for some reason, maybe like that Kelly bloke who was unearthing the WMD lies, you´ll get bumped off!!

Human Rights, okay?

In my opinion human rights must be protected but in any case national security issues are more important . There should be no compromise on national security.

Originally posted by Lemon Meringue
Whear do peple get toturedd?

China, America, Russia, the other fairly major powers in the world, where dictators are, in christian countries, in Islamic countries, I could go on, but instead I'll just say this: Every place where fanaticsm (is that a word?) has taken over, whether by money, greed or religion, or anything else.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deano, let me ask you something.

Supposing everything you've ever believed, every conspiracy theory is right, then what?

You'll suffer the same fate as everybody else, with the only difference being that you've spent a lifetime worrying.

-AC

no one has to suffer any fate. because if people wake up and smell the coffee, then they cant manipulate us anymore. game over, at last

Originally posted by Captain King
Explain these rights.

What rights are being taken away? I'm not saying you're not losing rights. I want to know what sortof rights you think we're losing, and what makes it worth jepordizing the lives of your family and friends.

Because frankly, my life hasn't changed much pre and post 9-11.

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/11/police-taser-man-while-he-was-sleeping.html
http://www.nwotruth.com/man-tasered-for-refusing-to-sign-ticket/
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12921.html

what if that was you or someone you loved?

i think you would be angry and would want justice. let me tell you that in the near future, this sort of behaviour will be permitted more often and there wont be a damn thing you can do.

Then what you going to do? Say, 'oh well i didnt get affected at the time, i wasnt aware enough to understand what was happening'

So tell me what are you going to do when a certain situation in the new world effects you, and your powerless to do nothing at all.

Consider the cosequences for the future, and look where we are heading

Originally posted by Deano
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/11/police-taser-man-while-he-was-sleeping.html
http://www.nwotruth.com/man-tasered-for-refusing-to-sign-ticket/
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12921.html

So tell me what are you going to do when a certain situation in the new world effects you, and your powerless to do nothing at all.

Thats why i Breed Polar bears. No one wants to fvck with a Polar bear, especially with a laser canon strapped on its back. So...,im good

Human Rights is always more important. But where does one draw the line for our safety.. 🙁

National security is more important. I mean, having bigger bombs is what makes all the top nations respected

I think what is funny is that "national security" tends to be more for major cities and the such. Terrorism is not gonna extend to Buckunham, AL so why would they care? Then again, they do not have a voice on the national stage.

In terms of a complete popular vote, I would almost certainly say human rights are more important.

I have never liked that people see national security and human rights (I am assuming here you mean Individual rights) as polar opposites.

The only reason why we should have national security is to defend individual rights. In this frame of thought, they are both tools to arriving at the same end, namely the protection of individual liberty.

So, to reply more directly, the actions taken by ANY government in order to repress individual rights is AGAINST national security. Why? Well, lets look at Mr. Bush. He has repeatedly abused individual rights for reasons he justified as being in the interest of national security. There are 2 main groups that he has oppressed, foreigners and domestics. With regard to the foreigners, removing their individual rights has only managed to create more enemies for America, and to harden their resolve. There is no inhumane treatment that will destroy the will of people to fight America. With regard to domestics, the continued oppression (wire tapping, etc.) and the silencing of descent has polarized the American political scene. The biggest threat to national security that this poses is that the people of America are (rightfully) skeptical and unwilling to follow the president on more "national security" ventures. While immediately this is ok, suppose war (or other military action) with another nation were necessary (like Iran or Saudi Arabia). People will be less willing to support it, and thus it may never be done correctly. Another example of this may be Iraq. By misleading the public and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis the government has destroyed support for maintaining the occupation of Baghdad, even though (and admittedly it is Bush's own fault) it may be in the best interests of American national security for them to stay the course (though not prior to invading, and recent events in Iraq should make people optimistic of the Iraqis ability to self govern responsibly).

* Yes, I did mean individual rights.

Damn, I was going to make that post nearly verbatim.

I agree wholeheartedly. I find it hard to not see them as intertwined. In application, they are very, very closely connected.

Long term U.S. occupation of Iraq (WTF!)

Did not want to just make a new topic.

How can you sign a deal and then fill in the details a year later?

This is some uber bullshit