Duplicate thread, I think.
To answer the questions:
1) When you begin doing things that contradict an earlier stance or set of artistic morals in favour of superficial success or gain, of your own choice or at the suggestion of a label etc. Selling out has nothing to do with the degree of success you acquire. Foo Fighters are huge, but huge on their own terms, it was always their goal to be huge.
Eminem produced a great debut (Not technically a debut, but whatever) album of underground hip hop, professing how he didn't care if you bought his album or not. He had nothing to lose, so he did whatever he wanted, and it resulted in greatness. When he realised that he could earn shitloads more money by being nicer and making it so parents would give their kids permission to buy his album, he sold himself out.
The whole "Developing sound" argument is tricky. Some bands visibly change their appearance or sound because they know that they style they originally believed in is going to get them nowhere, like MCR, Avenged Sevenfold or whatever, those shit bands (Yes, shit being subjective), but people will always say "It's developing sound.".
2) Same as first.
3) Trent Reznor, Eminem, possibly MSI.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Duplicate thread, I think.
Yeah, probably, but I searched. Can't say I didn't try to find it. shrug
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To answer the questions:1) When you begin doing things that contradict an earlier stance or set of artistic morals in favour of superficial success or gain, of your own choice or at the suggestion of a label etc. Selling out has nothing to do with the degree of success you acquire. Foo Fighters are huge, but huge on their own terms, it was always their goal to be huge.
Eminem produced a great debut (Not technically a debut, but whatever) album of underground hip hop, professing how he didn't care if you bought his album or not. He had nothing to lose, so he did whatever he wanted, and it resulted in greatness. When he realised that he could earn shitloads more money by being nicer and making it so parents would give their kids permission to buy his album, he sold himself out.
The whole "Developing sound" argument is tricky. Some bands visibly change their appearance or sound because they know that they style they originally believed in is going to get them nowhere, like MCR, Avenged Sevenfold or whatever, those shit bands (Yes, shit being subjective), but people will always say "It's developing sound.".
2) Same as first.
3) Trent Reznor, Eminem, possibly MSI.
-AC
Very interesting.
My take?
Well selling out can mean musically crossing cultures after being totally dedicated to just one culture. OR, just making music purely for the money thus and apparently lowering the musical quality due to irregarding artistry. Takign the side of corporate doners instead of the fan, so to speak, whom provides more dollars.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYou do suggest that sometimes sound does develop though?
The whole "Developing sound" argument is tricky. Some bands visibly change their appearance or sound because they know that they style they originally believed in is going to get them nowhere, like MCR, Avenged Sevenfold or whatever, those shit bands (Yes, shit being subjective), but people will always say "It's developing sound.".
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthIf they do it just for the money, maybe.
What if for example a rock and roll musician stop rocking after a nice while, establishing a solid fan base and switched over to rap because he/she saw more fan dollars there?I consider that selling out.
But Dylan doing Rock stuff and then Country stuff is just him developing as musician, not selling out, for example.
Re: Selling Out
Originally posted by SelphieT
When exactly is the boundary crossed?What do you consider "selling out"?
What are some bands you think have "sold out"?
I'm just interested in what your opinions are, and I could use some insight.
Creating music by using a formula and lyrics with the only intent of appealing to a mass demographic. Instead of producing music from the passion inside is selling out.
I think its silly to say, that because a band or artist changes their musical philosophy and sound means they are selling out. Art is endless. If one chooses to explore the many different facets of what the music universe has to offer while staying true to their artistic integrity. Then i dont think there is anything wrong with changing your style and philosophy. Neil young, david Bowie, bob Dylan and even Led Zeppelin all experimented with sounds that were radical departures from their base formula. Music today is cemented in genre's though. So people are much more prone to start shitting out of their mouth, an accusation that an artist or band has sold out because they try something new.
I also dont believe it has anything to do with money. If your making a living off of your art. You have to approach the business aspect of your art with a greedy mentality.
I think Metallica sold out with Load and Reload.
Oukast sold out with stankonia
Sum 41 sold out with their latest album, the album that shall not be spoken
Originally posted by Bardock42To be fair he was never far away. When do you consider him to have switched over? To me I think he always had country in some of his songs and it just became for frequent.
If they do it just for the money, maybe.But Dylan doing Rock stuff and then Country stuff is just him developing as musician, not selling out, for example.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriSad thing is that they were actually somewhat successful beforehand.
Of course.I just think with a little attention you can tell what's bs and what isn't.
Trivium, for example, haven't developed. They've just given up on what they tried at first and taken to just trying to be as much like Metallica as possible.
-AC
Another though I'd add is that sometimes bands sell out in very odd ways. Testament becoming death metal, for example, was not a natural development, but more of an attempt at regaining/gaining credibility in the metal community after releasing the relatively accessible Ritual. I'd almost say they sold out twice. First trying to duplicate Metallica success with the Black Album clone Ritual then in an attempt to gain credibility with Demonic and Low.
Originally posted by Nellinator
To be fair he was never far away. When do you consider him to have switched over? To me I think he always had country in some of his songs and it just became for frequent.
Well, I guess most people consider Nashville Skyline to be pretty different. But that's kinda my point, his sounds just evolved, not against his believes or for money, just because at the time he was more interested in Country sounds.
Originally posted by Impediment
I feel that Korn sold out after releasing "Follow the Leader".I could be wrong, but I feel as though they did.
I adore their first two albums to this day, but I never identified with any others.
Hmm, I don't I've ever heard any of their stuff before that album. But I've never really cared for Korn. Hah, I almost spelled "cared" with a "k". Heh.......
Originally posted by Impediment
I feel that Korn sold out after releasing "Follow the Leader".I could be wrong, but I feel as though they did.
I adore their first two albums to this day, but I never identified with any others.
Do you feel they sold out simply because you stopped identifying with them? That'd be wrong, in my opinion.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you feel they sold out simply because you stopped identifying with them? That'd be wrong, in my opinion.-AC
Well...............maybe I jumped the gun when I used "not identifying" as an excuse.
It's just that if you listen to "Life is Peachy" and then to "Follow the Leader", the two albums are polar opposites, at least in my opinion. How can Jon Davis write a song that is as beautiful as it is horrible called "Kill You" which is as gutteral and hateful as any song I've ever heard, and then, on the next album, write a song called "Got the Life" in which he brags about his bank account and lifestyle? It just seems to me that after Korn became a household name for most metal heads, they drastically changed both sound and image.
Would you agree, though, that both image and sound changed after their third album release? I'm anxious to hear opinions here. I, personally, love the first two albums. Every album after, I hated. Probably because of the weakened music/lyrics that, in my opinion, for the majority, became very whiny and melancholy. There are one or two songs from the newer albums that I kind've like, I have to admit.