Friendly Debates
Since there has been a lot of interesting debates recently, I thought I'd start up a thread just for such debates (that way the fan thread participants and those wishing to debate (regardless of their shipping/fan preferences) don't get offended, but can come on here and have a roaring good time talking about all the things they love and hate about all ships, all characters, all films! Everything is welcome, but try and keep it nice and friendly. Debate away, mates!
Originally posted by katelovespirate
Here's something i want to be debate about.if YOU really had to choose between elizabeth and bootstrap, or between the love of your life and your blood relative who ditched out and broke your mom's heart, which would you pick?
i believe in family and all, but i'd go for love of my life.
It's a hard one to ponder, Kate, because (I hope) we all have good relationships with our dads and that none of them have ever left us. I think had I been Will, I still would have promised to help him...not stab Davy Jones' heart, though. I'm not that poetic when it comes to murder. It would have been nice to see a scene where Will confides in Elizabeth about his dad since when he first mentions it, she doesn't react to it at all. But if I found out I had to be the captain of the Flying Dutchman in order to save my dad that left me and made my mom raise a child by herself, I would probably make the love of my life the top priority and help whatever other way I could.
Well, it's difficult because they really tried to make bootstrap out ot be a pathetic tragic figure who was depending on WIll in that one scene with elizabeth--- and then three seconds later, he kills one of the best characters in the series, who had already been jilted and pummeled around a lot by our other leading characters.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
Well, it's difficult because they really tried to make bootstrap out ot be a pathetic tragic figure who was depending on WIll in that one scene with elizabeth--- and then three seconds later, he kills one of the best characters in the series, who had already been jilted and pummeled around a lot by our other leading characters.
Well, I think part of the reason Will promised to rescue Bootstrap WAS because he never met him. Bootstrap is his claim to piracy fame, he has heard so much about him, and has been told he's so much like him. He likely wanted to get to know him. And when Bootstrap saved will during the dice game, it sort of sealed the deal.
The biggest "...What!?" moment in the whole movie for me, besides the calypso crab ordeal, was when bootstrap killed James. It was random and apparently out of character. Or at least that's what i thought.
Oh agreed, pocky, agreed. When you stop to think about it, it's very easy to feel sorry for Bootstrap and even though he abandoned his family, he stood up for Jack when no one else would, so he doesn't deserve that fate. But in that moment, you don't feel sorry for him, you feel sorry for James. The guy just saved Liz and a bunch of pirates and confessed his love. It's out of a girl's fantasy where a guy poetically says he loves her and risks his life for hers.
Sometimes I wonder, if James wouldn't have died (GRRRRR) what would have happened between him and Elizabeth?
maybe I'm just playing Surreal here, but I think that there would have been an open door perhaps. I mean, Elizabeth just got into a massive fight with Will and ditched him on the Pearl, basically handing him over as a traitor to the other pirates (we never do analyze that scene enough--- and we should) and more or less saying she's ready to sell her body to Sao Feng (or at least, agree it might come to that) to save herself and get them out of that last scrape. She's obviously still pretty angry at him, and then here she is, trying to hold her own as captain after almost being raped and who should show up but Knight in Shining armor James?! Looking dashing and playing the hero, no less.
And she's like, "James, come with us... come with me." and then doesn't seem at all averse to the kiss with him... hehe. personally, i think his survival may have complicated things for Will and Elizabeth. 😉 it's too bad she didn't realize what a catch he was before he died.
Subtle hints that maybe James was the best choice for her after all. She obviously didn't get the greatest ending with Will and didn't open herself up to having one with Jack...or he didn't open up to having one with her....whatever. The deleted scenes in COTBP show Elizabeth had a soft spot for him and she felt like she should love him and he definitely had a lot of qualities she admired. But she thought he was lacking in some areas. And we can assume she learned he did possess those qualities in DMC when he went pirate briefly. And, to top it all off, he never stopped loving her or putting her first. He wasn't thinking about a possible future with her on the deck of the Dutchman. He was thinking about making sure she'd live.
It's an interesting thing, Kate. Maybe when you're done analyzing the films as sparrabeth you can do norribeth. Little things are everywhere to imply they would be more successful than her and Will or even her and Jack.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
Sometimes I wonder, if James wouldn't have died (GRRRRR) what would have happened between him and Elizabeth?maybe I'm just playing Surreal here, but I think that there would have been an open door perhaps. I mean, Elizabeth just got into a massive fight with Will and ditched him on the Pearl, basically handing him over as a traitor to the other pirates (we never do analyze that scene enough--- and we should) and more or less saying she's ready to sell her body to Sao Feng (or at least, agree it might come to that) to save herself and get them out of that last scrape. She's obviously still pretty angry at him, and then here she is, trying to hold her own as captain after almost being raped and who should show up but Knight in Shining armor James?! Looking dashing and playing the hero, no less.
And she's like, "James, come with us... come with me." and then doesn't seem at all averse to the kiss with him... hehe. personally, i think his survival may have complicated things for Will and Elizabeth. 😉 it's too bad she didn't realize what a catch he was before he died.
oh god kate, I KNOW!!!!! I'm still pissed about that...and any ending is better *nearly any* than the one he got, oh well I guess it gives a story line for his spin off that T&T will make about the adventures of Sailorrie ((they will make this or i will...do not nice....things////i can be very annoying...))
He really doesn't seem interested in the offer when she says come with us--not until she says come with me. Is that how Jack did it, to raise his crew--found those that were "in love" with him one level or another and just kept adding more--the crew owns the captain, the captain owns the crew--what a bizarre love unilateral triangle? Heckydo, I don't know.
Also, I said this before and it's still bugging me: Jones got 'hired on' to ferry the dead, promised !?! by Calypso, who then didn't be 'there' when he got the one day--he petitioned the brethern court (no king then) to bind her in her bones, taught them how--pillow talk intell? and then he cuts out his heart, burries it up etc. So how come Will's heart got removed--filleting himself was Jones' gig, some real bad testerone poisoning, gender defect--not a prerequiste of captaining Dutchman, was it?
Originally posted by willofthewisp
It's a hard one to ponder, Kate, because (I hope) we all have good relationships with our dads and that none of them have ever left us. I think had I been Will, I still would have promised to help him...not stab Davy Jones' heart, though. I'm not that poetic when it comes to murder. It would have been nice to see a scene where Will confides in Elizabeth about his dad since when he first mentions it, she doesn't react to it at all. But if I found out I had to be the captain of the Flying Dutchman in order to save my dad that left me and made my mom raise a child by herself, I would probably make the love of my life the top priority and help whatever other way I could.
Agreed. Well, except for the fact that I don't have a good relationship with my dad, and that yes.. he's left me for some other brat.. 😕
I would have chosen "love of my life" too, instead of father - but maybe I'm basing things on personal experience. Meh, I don't know.. 🙂
I loved my daddy bunches--and we had some major issues, but the deal is aren't we supposed to leave our homes of origin and go to be with tha person with whom we will make a new home--boy, yucko, that sounds way Biblical--probably is. The who has dominion over what/who usually goes back to Bible or English law in my history. Who knows--
I want to ask and I don't know if here is the spot, however--on the spit of land during the parlay (AWE), Barbossa calls Jack blackguard I understand. Then they do that nose to nose thing where Barbossa says "if you've got something to say, I might be saying something back" and Jack says "okay first to the finish then?" What was that all about? I have racked my pea brain for what went on? haven't been able to make a serviceable answer yet. So, I appeal to the court, what say ye pirates?