Strength feats and their relevance in fights

Do non-combat strength feats such as lifting or punching something really matter when it comes to fights ?

I'll use the Hulk as my primary example.

He has some impressive strength feats, but do these really matter when punching someone when say compared to a character with superior speed ?

I'll use Superman as an example also, although I don't think Hulk is stronger than him.

This is hypoteticall.

Say Hulk is stronger than Superman, but do their punches have the same efficiency ? No. Because a punch from Superman at really high speeds does a lot more damage than a punch from Hulk.

So why aren't people really considering all the variables when it comes to this sort of things ? Because I see on numerous threads involving for example WWH as the fact that Hulk is "so much stronger than character X" that he should win .

Brute strength does matter when throwing a punch, but it is only one of several factors including body mass, speed, and technique.

Ever notice how professional boxers (since we're speaking strictly of punching here) have highly developed, though not normally well-toned, muscles in their arms and torsos but skinny legs?

That's because for most boxers, and you see this in the heavier weight classes more than at the lighter weights, strength and muscle mass are as important to the force of their punches as the speed and manner in which the punch is thrown. Lighter boxers may punch faster, but do not necessarily hit as hard because they lack the extra mass and strength of a heavier boxer.

Now, this isn't always the case, but it illustrates a reasonable answer to the question here.

Hypothetically, assuming that Hulk is stronger than Superman to some degree, their punches should be more or less equal in force. Though Hulk in this example has the advantage of greater strength and mass behind his punches, Superman can punch faster and with better technique, making up for what he would hypothetically lack in strength.

The final factor is the psychological one. Hulk, on one hand, is rage-fueled and not likely to pull his punches, whereas Superman is generally held in check by his rational mind and might tend to not hit people with the full force of his punches most of the time.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

This is hypoteticall.

Say Hulk is stronger than Superman, but do their punches have the same efficiency ? No. Because a punch from Superman at really high speeds does a lot more damage than a punch from Hulk.

So why aren't people really considering all the variables when it comes to this sort of things ? Because I see on numerous threads involving for example WWH as the fact that Hulk is "so much stronger than character X" that he should win .

Hmm yeah logically Supermans punch should do more damage. I guess theres several ways of looking at it.

1. Yeah it should be more powerful but sometimes **** just doesnt work like that I think Glads used a speeblitz punch on Thor but it didnt seem to have more affect than a regular punch.

2. Even if his punches are alot more powerful. Hulks showings indicate he can take the damage.

3. Hulk has some speed feats that indicate he could counter speed blitzing.

I'm not talking about speed blitzing or anything like that.

I'm talking strictly about non-combat strength feats and their relevance when comparing 2 oponnents with vastly different speed.

Tehnically, even if Hulk can lift many times more than character yet that character punches at aproximatley or beyond the speed of light, those punches should make much, much more damage and be a lot more efficient when it comes to fighting.

Take Zoom for example :

Just the fact that he is that fast makes his punches be compared to those of Superman.

Lifting strength doesn't equal a force of hits, what's more- big biceps of a weightlifter actually slow down his hits. Force of hits consists of many aspects one of which is strength, but boxers don't develop exactly the same groups of muscles as weightlifters\bodybuilders. In fact, if you're strong but slow as slug, your force of hits isn't equal to that of one who is strong\fast\knows how to use it when fighting, not just lifting stuff.
That's just IMHO, of course.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Lifting strength doesn't equal a force of hits, what's more- big biceps of a weightlifter actually slow down his hits. Force of hits consists of many aspects one of which is strength, but boxers don't develop exactly the same groups of muscles as weightlifters\bodybuilders. In fact, if you're strong but slow as slug, your force of hits isn't equal to that of one who is strong\fast\knows how to use it when fighting, not just lifting stuff.
That's just IMHO, of course.

But strength and muscle mass ARE factors in punching force...they just may not necessarily be the dominant factors...

Originally posted by shksprtx
But strength and muscle mass ARE factors in punching force...they just may not necessarily be the dominant factors...

I wasn't saying they're non-factors, just that they're not the only factors in the force of hits.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I'm not talking about speed blitzing or anything like that.

I'm talking strictly about non-combat strength feats and their relevance when comparing 2 oponnents with vastly different speed.

Tehnically, even if Hulk can lift many times more than character yet that character punches at aproximatley or beyond the speed of light, those punches should make much, much more damage and be a lot more efficient when it comes to fighting.

Take Zoom for example :

Just the fact that he is that fast makes his punches be compared to those of Superman.

Right so your saying that if Superman punched at speed they should be loads of times more powerful than Hulks punches? IF Zoom has normal strength and his speed can be compared to Supermans then Superman punching at speed would be even more powerful.

This is an argument I've carried on for years about Superman, and how so many others powerhouses - who've never help to lift or tow something planet-sized, or something else huge - can stand toe-to-toe with him. I've said he's using a different power, lifting something huge while flying, so those aren't really strength feats.
Hulk's a different example though, because he's supposed to get tougher and stronger the more he gets hit due to rage.

I don't think muscle force is such a deciding factor when characters punch at light-speed, speedsters like the Flash and Zoom are easily capable of surpassing powerhouses like the Hulk, Hercules and The Thing.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so your saying that if Superman punched at speed they should be loads of times more powerful than Hulks punches?

It's not about the god damned Hulk, what is wrong with you?

Originally posted by llagrok
It's not about the god damned Hulk, what is wrong with you?

😕

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Do non-combat strength feats such as lifting or punching something really matter when it comes to fights ?

I'll use the Hulk as my primary example.

He has some impressive strength feats, but do these really matter when punching someone when say compared to a character with superior speed ?

I'll use Superman as an example also, although I don't think Hulk is stronger than him.

This is hypoteticall.

Say Hulk is stronger than Superman, but do their punches have the same efficiency ? No. Because a punch from Superman at really high speeds does a lot more damage than a punch from Hulk.

So why aren't people really considering all the variables when it comes to this sort of things ? Because I see on numerous threads involving for example WWH as the fact that Hulk is "so much stronger than character X" that he should win .

The entire point of this thread is that a class 100 brick who lacks speed shouldn't hit nearly has hard as a brick who can throw haymakers at the speed of light, even if he happens to be stronger. Hulk is the quintessential "slow" brick, and Superman is the quintessential "fast" brick, so yes, this thread is very much about the Hulk... I mean, you may have noticed how many times he was mentioned in the original post?

llgarok is basically just an annoying troll....anyway you should go to the WM vs Wolverine thread and see what I said about you there. 😂 ......then again maybe not. 😐

Originally posted by Alfheim
llgarok is basically just an annoying troll....anyway you should go to the WM vs Wolverine thread and see what I said about you there. 😂 ......then again maybe not. 😐

Maybe later, I have big Illustration project due tomorrow that I haven't started and should be working on right now. I don't need any more distractions. 🙁

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe later, I have big Illustration project due tomorrow that I haven't started and should be working on right now. 🙁

You wont like it though the Wolverine hate got me and I bit your head off. 😐 Its not me blame the wolverine hate.

supermans stronger

but anyway speed is the most effective thing in brawls I say

Force=Mass*Acceleration

Some characters have a greater acceleration, others a greater mass to their hits.

Lifting feats help to show some of the potential of the M side of the factor while speed feats might help to show the A side of the factor.

5=1*5
5=5*1

Originally posted by llagrok
It's not about the god damned Hulk, what is wrong with you?

Knowlage is the best weapon.

non combat strength such as lifting does not coudnt as fighting ... as low levelers are able to hag with popel way out of thier league

think about this ... an enraged hulk/savage hulk shoud make thing go yellow rock splat in a puch as he can lift 1000's of tons where thing cant even compare ... daredeviil cant even lift half a ton but does not get a ko form a puch from spidey and can last the half teh issue fighteing peter , kingpin can stand up to spidey and give spidey a run for his money he cant even lift half a ton!

TOO MANY DAMN PLOT DEVICES got charecters with superstrength looking like have supersissy strength and can be matched by any tom/dick or harry!

Originally posted by ankur29
non combat strength such as lifting does not coudnt as fighting ... as low levelers are able to hag with popel way out of thier league

think about this ... an enraged hulk/savage hulk shoud make thing go yellow rock splat in a puch as he can lift 1000's of tons where thing cant even compare ... daredeviil cant even lift half a ton but does not get a ko form a puch from spidey and can last the half teh issue fighteing peter , kingpin can stand up to spidey and give spidey a run for his money he cant even lift half a ton!

TOO MANY DAMN PLOT DEVICES got charecters with superstrength looking like have supersissy strength and can be matched by any tom/dick or harry!

Originally posted by Creshosk
Force=Mass*Acceleration

Some characters have a greater acceleration, others a greater mass to their hits.

Lifting feats help to show some of the potential of the M side of the factor while speed feats might help to show the A side of the factor.

5=1*5
5=5*1

Exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post, only all mathematical and stuff...

Wish I had taken physics back in high school and college...