Archimonde takes on the gauntlet

Originally posted by Fuddle
There we go. Due to my lack of knowledge and since you were too lazy/rude to tell me about Raziel and what he can do, I did my own reading.

After multiple sources and reading, I came to the conclusion that only with the reaver would Raziel be capable of beating Archimonde, but since it is not his original blade (Matter of perspective, of course), I will not have the Reaver be any part of this fight.

Archimonde will trough telekinetic powers and enormous amount of strength and endurance beat Raziel.

thats where you come short m8, and my rudeness was born from your bashing of Raziel i feel, especially considering you just admitted you dont even know him

look here, ill tell you what he can do

Material

he has very powerful abilities, he has the wraith blade that CAN cut anything the physical blade can, AND at the same time is an energy blade so its not a breakable object, at the same time he has tonnes of elemental powers ranging from fire to Ice and air as well as things like Dark, light etc etc he can go invisible as well.

also Raziel can rip out souls with his bare hands so it depends how ressitent Archimondes soul is and if you can prove its ressitent, one swipe of the wraith blade and he could be in trouble fast

Spectoral

heres the rub, if Archimonde used his superior strength, endurance and TK to rip Raziel apart he becomes Spectoral, the same happens if you would use a soul ripping attack on him. Now he can eat souls (already dead souls) to regain his strength and reform....this is the rub because Archimonde has no way to actually beat Raziel, destroying his body is going to end up really only doing a BFR to specotral plane where he can gain more strength from

i may have missed some Raziel powers, i think Madmel knows a lot on Raziel as well

He does not have to kill Raziel. He can just disable him completely and he would be out of the counting (You would be surprised what one can live trough 😉)

And do you have any proof that he become spectoral? I checked multiple information sources and none said anything about him becoming spectoral whenever he dies. All I know is that the times that Raziel have died, he has been sent to blablabla-whatsitsnamenow and only after some time did he learn how he could come back to the physical world. And he needed to claim the body of someone to do so.

And the only body that can be claimed here and now is Ganondorf, and he is dead (probably dust) in the Raziel - Archimonde encounter.

I do not have to prove to you that he is resistant to any soul attack (even if I wanted to, I would not be able of it since I do not have scanner and I think you remember me saying I dont from before). But Raziel would never be allowed to come near Archimonde. He would be thrown around the battlefield like a leaf in a sandstorm.

It is also not even known if Raziel's grasp will do anything to Archimonde's soul. He will be as tall as a mountain. From what we know, Raziel can only pull the soul out of Archimonde's chest. I doubt he can pull the soul out of Archimonde's toe.

Originally posted by Fuddle
He does not have to kill Raziel. He can just disable him completely and he would be out of the counting (You would be surprised what one can live trough 😉)

And do you have any proof that he become spectoral? I checked multiple information sources and none said anything about him becoming spectoral whenever he dies. All I know is that the times that Raziel have died, he has been sent to blablabla-whatsitsnamenow and only after some time did he learn how he could come back to the physical world. And he needed to claim the body of someone to do so.

And the only body that can be claimed here and now is Ganondorf, and he is dead (probably dust) in the Raziel - Archimonde encounter.

I do not have to prove to you that he is resistant to any soul attack (even if I wanted to, I would not be able of it since I do not have scanner and I think you remember me saying I dont from before). But Raziel would never be allowed to come near Archimonde. He would be thrown around the battlefield like a leaf in a sandstorm.

It is also not even known if Raziel's grasp will do anything to Archimonde's soul. He will be as tall as a mountain. From what we know, Raziel can only pull the soul out of Archimonde's chest. I doubt he can pull the soul out of Archimonde's toe.

using what exactley? does he have any powers that will disable Raziel without killing him?

yeh watch my video, this is now obvious youve never played a LOK game but watch that video on my profile, youll see the many times Raziel gets killed but becomes spectoral then he feeds and reforms, he would repeat this every time Archi kills him so unless Archi has an attack that will not kill its moot.

"shrug" dust? if he isnt dust possession ftw for giggles.

a leaf in a sandstorm? how so, with what powers does Archimonde do that? how about when Raziel becomes ethereal and untouchable? leaf in a sandstorm? no.....lawls...

Archimondes toe....why not, is archimondes soul only in his chest? sounds silly to me, thats a grab at straws that is imo since the limit is a gameplay animaton when he grabs in the chest, why he could not take it out of Archimonde from any location is your explanation otherwise its a moot point, why do you not think Raziel can take it from Arhcimondes toes?

when still serving the Elder God in Soul Reaver I and II Raziel could shift between the Spectral and Material Realms at various portals created by the Elder God
when he defies the Elder God in...Defiance and escapes him is it then he must then only enter the Material Realm only through dead bodies

yes, so what version is this? Fuddles decision, if its the dead bodies one then Raziel if killed can return once if Ganons body is still there

also i trust this is gameplay Diablo, if its Diablo from lore, the whole of the burning legion at once stop there and Sargerus gets tied on a giant cosmic donky with a dunce cap and rode across the void

It is gameplay Diablo and it is Raziel after Kain ripped the bones out of his wings 🙂

ah okie, thats font raziel where he needs the spectoral gateways to come back and i doubt youll let him have them in the battle, their just spectoral world soul portals so since i doubt youd let Raziel have them (otherwise it would break your Archimonde gauntlet by keeping him at 2)

does Raziel have powers from Soul reaver 2 and Defiance? or just Soul reaver 1? hmm

I am not sure of the different games, but it is Raziel just after Kain ripped the bones out of his wings.

And I will allow Raziel to return once (If he can at that time) due to the body of Ganondorf.

i think Archi will win but not easily, does Archi get rest between battles?

i mean with all the powers of becoming Ethereal and the fact you said he can come back once gives him some advantages, since slashing Archi with the reaver is definatley going to hurt his soul, combine that with Raziels invisability and the power over elements like fire, lighting and ice in blast waves its quite destructive

Originally posted by Burning thought
i think Archi will win but not easily, does Archi get rest between battles?

i mean with all the powers of becoming Ethereal and the fact you said he can come back once gives him some advantages, since slashing Archi with the reaver is definatley going to hurt his soul, combine that with Raziels invisability and the power over elements like fire, lighting and ice in blast waves its quite destructive

His Soul is marked and protected by Sargares so that's not very likely also I find it hard to see how exactly you are planning on Raziel getting close to Archimonde, who has numorous magical defenses???

Originally posted by Utrigita
His Soul is marked and protected by Sargares so that's not very likely also I find it hard to see how exactly you are planning on Raziel getting close to Archimonde, who has numorous magical defenses???

how do these magical defences work? ive not seen any information on Archiomondes defence and attack, can someone post them please

what defences, Raziel could bypass many things by going ethereal or going invisible, what defences does Archi have against soul powers, can you show me what says his soul is protected by Sargeres please

and its unlikely any physical defensive barriers nad such that Archi can conjure is going to stop an immaterial blade

Originally posted by Burning thought
how do these magical defences work? ive not seen any information on Archiomondes defence and attack, can someone post them please

what defences, Raziel could bypass many things by going ethereal or going invisible, what defences does Archi have against soul powers, can you show me what says his soul is protected by Sargeres please

and its unlikely any physical defensive barriers nad such that Archi can conjure is going to stop an immaterial blade

They work like any shield that a Eredar would conjure up before going into battle acting as protection for the caster in question.

If he was going ethereal he would need a body to manifest himself back to the physical plan wouldn't he???

Will just look for confirmation I believe Darth Extecute showed Proof of Kil'Jaedens soul being protected by Sargares so I would assume that Archimonde would have the same defenses too since his role is much more active then Kil'Jaedens.

It's a magical barrier maybe it isn't stopping the blade but it would if Raziel is in the physcal plan and if he was in the ethereal plan he could bypass it but wouldn't be capable of attacking Archimonde due to the fact they are at seperate plans of reality 🙂

Originally posted by Utrigita
They work like any shield that a Eredar would conjure up before going into battle acting as protection for the caster in question.

If he was going ethereal he would need a body to manifest himself back to the physical plan wouldn't he???

Will just look for confirmation I believe Darth Extecute showed Proof of Kil'Jaedens soul being protected by Sargares so I would assume that Archimonde would have the same defenses too since his role is much more active then Kil'Jaedens.

It's a magical barrier maybe it isn't stopping the blade but it would if Raziel is in the physcal plan and if he was in the ethereal plan he could bypass it but wouldn't be capable of attacking Archimonde due to the fact they are at seperate plans of reality 🙂

no thats going spectoral, Ethereal is what Raziel does to get through solid objects like bars and such, sort of like Kain mists only Raziel goes ethereal but he does this while staying in the material plane

hmm i dont know about this, i dont see Sargerus as a being who would protect anyone

hm well this depends, he can change from ethereal to material at will it seems so he could get to archimonde and then reform, his wraith blade is like soul energy or takes the form of whatever power you have selected so a beam of ice, flame, darkness etc etc

Originally posted by Burning thought
no thats going spectoral, Ethereal is what Raziel does to get through solid objects like bars and such, sort of like Kain mists only Raziel goes ethereal but he does this while staying in the material plane

hmm i dont know about this, i dont see Sargerus as a being who would protect anyone

hm well this depends, he can change from ethereal to material at will it seems so he could get to archimonde and then reform, his wraith blade is like soul energy or takes the form of whatever power you have selected so a beam of ice, flame, darkness etc etc

And Raziel can to Ethereal all the way to archimonde who will just stand there??? and a Magical shield isn't exactly what I would call a solid object but I guess that is a matter of perspective.

Protected the soul so that others wouldn't claim them and take away his best lietenants which he in according to the new lore worked quiet a deal to get his hands on.

Up close and personal, with a Demon that is strong enough to kill Malorne auch not the place I would love to be.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And Raziel can to Ethereal all the way to archimonde who will just stand there??? and a Magical shield isn't exactly what I would call a solid object but I guess that is a matter of perspective.

Protected the soul so that others wouldn't claim them and take away his best lietenants which he in according to the new lore worked quiet a deal to get his hands on.

Up close and personal, with a Demon that is strong enough to kill Malorne auch not the place I would love to be.

well thats the thing, Raziel is incredibly quick and agile, according to fuddle it would be a big Archi so he would be fighting on Raziels terms since Raziel is great against large enemies, dodging and moving like a crazy fool

but he could as i said just go ethereal and be basiclaly invulerable and quickly going in and out slashing with the reaver until archimondes defences are weak, Raziels reaver is slowly getting stronger and after a good few blasts from the blades magic i think eventually Archimondes shields and protections will go down, and according to Fuddle even if Raziel is destroyed and killed he can come back.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well thats the thing, Raziel is incredibly quick and agile, according to fuddle it would be a big Archi so he would be fighting on Raziels terms since Raziel is great against large enemies, dodging and moving like a crazy fool

Archimonde who can change his size at basically will???, I think fuddle ment that was the size that was used when he battled Malorne and I was under the impression that when you are in the Ethereal plan you are moving very slowly but I might have misunderstood something from the game...

but he could as i said just go ethereal and be basiclaly invulerable and quickly going in and out slashing with the reaver until archimondes defences are weak, Raziels reaver is slowly getting stronger and after a good few blasts from the blades magic i think eventually Archimondes shields and protections will go down, and according to Fuddle even if Raziel is destroyed and killed he can come back. [/B]

Can he slash with the reaver while in the Ethereal plan I never saw that in the game, got a video of it?? And when has Raziel used his reaver to cut through a magical shield???

Btw found some information on the main Eredar, from the MoM

First among the demons of the Burning Legion are the eredar. This creature is of impressive size, far larger than any human or orc, with a bulky muscular body and a long tail. Long pointed ears sweep back from its bestial face and horns sprout from its wide brow. In the Twisting Nether, only the titans have ever challenged them. Two Eredar, exalted by Sargeras’ power as well as their own, stood as the lords of their race: Archimonde the Defiler and Kil’jaeden the Deceiver. Each built a hierarchy of demons, jealously protected from the will of the other. These groups strove for dominance of Azeroth and even other worlds. But now, at long last, Archimonde is dead, killed by the heroes of Azeroth. Individual eredar and a few hopeful heroes of the lesser races have decided that they are the best candidates to replace him. These prideful few have taken their first careful steps toward locating and eliminating the presumptuous competition that might seek to displace them.
Eredar were supreme sorcerers at the dawn of the universe. Some believe that they devoured their own world by using radical warlock magics. They consumed all life around them and set out to find more places of mystical power. The eredar were Sargeras's first recruits in the Burning Legion, serving as tactical advisors and intelligence officers. Eredar warlocks are now counted as some of the greatest sorcerers in the universe. Preeminence in eredar warlock society depends almost entirely upon magical power. Those who command the greatest selection of paramount spells - and thus in theory the greatest magical arsenal - rise to higher ranks. Those whose arcane abilities top out at such pitiful cantrips as wish and shapechange are grunts and lackeys, scarcely worthy of notice. Eredar warlocks are spellcasters first. They have been known to flick their fingers in an enemy's direction, causing flesh, bone, and even steel to flare with entropic fire. They avoid combat with even an innocuous foe until they can establish a collection of defensive and self-enhancement spells. Most maintain a mage armor or frost armor effect continuously. If the enemy seems weak and not worth the expenditure of spells, eredar warlocks wade into combat with their claws. If the enemy is strong, an eredar warlock creates an advantage of numbers, summoning monsters, enchanting his opponents, and using spells that divide his enemies

Trough the enter tide of war, Archimonde got hurt once. By one of greatest concentrated forces of nature damage that has ever taken place in Azeroth. And it slayed him.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Archimonde who can change his size at basically will???, I think fuddle ment that was the size that was used when he battled Malorne and I was under the impression that when you are in the Ethereal plan you are moving very slowly but I might have misunderstood something from the game...

Can he slash with the reaver while in the Ethereal plan I never saw that in the game, got a video of it?? And when has Raziel used his reaver to cut through a magical shield???

Btw found some information on the main Eredar, from the MoM

First among the demons of the Burning Legion are the eredar. This creature is of impressive size, far larger than any human or orc, with a bulky muscular body and a long tail. Long pointed ears sweep back from its bestial face and horns sprout from its wide brow. In the Twisting Nether, only the titans have ever challenged them. Two Eredar, exalted by Sargeras’ power as well as their own, stood as the lords of their race: Archimonde the Defiler and Kil’jaeden the Deceiver. Each built a hierarchy of demons, jealously protected from the will of the other. These groups strove for dominance of Azeroth and even other worlds. But now, at long last, Archimonde is dead, killed by the heroes of Azeroth. Individual eredar and a few hopeful heroes of the lesser races have decided that they are the best candidates to replace him. These prideful few have taken their first careful steps toward locating and eliminating the presumptuous competition that might seek to displace them.
Eredar were supreme sorcerers at the dawn of the universe. Some believe that they devoured their own world by using radical warlock magics. They consumed all life around them and set out to find more places of mystical power. The eredar were Sargeras's first recruits in the Burning Legion, serving as tactical advisors and intelligence officers. Eredar warlocks are now counted as some of the greatest sorcerers in the universe. Preeminence in eredar warlock society depends almost entirely upon magical power. Those who command the greatest selection of paramount spells - and thus in theory the greatest magical arsenal - rise to higher ranks. Those whose arcane abilities top out at such pitiful cantrips as wish and shapechange are grunts and lackeys, scarcely worthy of notice. Eredar warlocks are spellcasters first. They have been known to flick their fingers in an enemy's direction, causing flesh, bone, and even steel to flare with entropic fire. They avoid combat with even an innocuous foe until they can establish a collection of defensive and self-enhancement spells. Most maintain a mage armor or frost armor effect continuously. If the enemy seems weak and not worth the expenditure of spells, eredar warlocks wade into combat with their claws. If the enemy is strong, an eredar warlock creates an advantage of numbers, summoning monsters, enchanting his opponents, and using spells that divide his enemies

no if your ethereal, it simply means your body is not part of this plane but still physicall in it, but what i meant by my statement is that he can go in and out of the ethereal nature almost instantly and at will just like Archi can change size at will, so Raziel will be able to go ethereal for most hits and eventually after chipping away with all kinds of elemental powers the shield should eventually go down, no shield in WoW makes the being invulerable especially mage armour, they simply defend either a base amount or for a limited amount of time make you invulerable o certain elements, the only exception i can think of is possibly power word shield and Divine shield from WoW where the user is invulerable for a limited time to all things.

Archi will eventually have his shield smashed down imo and Raziel even if slain can come back once, even if it took a long while Archis shield would full, however i would still say Archimonde would win 7/10 however

Or Archimonde can just stomp him 😛

Originally posted by Fuddle
Or Archimonde can just stomp him 😛

yeh would be a nice try, not that hed hit Raziel.....but Archi could try yeh, then hed end up with raziel inside his body and have his leg blow open from the inside and raziel ripping out his soul from inside, excellent