Phoenix Respect Thread Remastered. (V. 20)

Originally posted by Xplosive
So, it wasn't only orphan (which Mr Master so confidently thought it was), but entire Universe. Was it 616?
I really don't even remember so much about which Universe was it?

Basically Jean ascends to the White Hot Room, plucking out the future reality of 15104, and cures it. But the Phoenix Force was not contempt to how things ended up since reality 15104 is the direct future of 616. So Phoenix manifested the entire 616 reality in the palm of her hand, and administers reality adjustment. Scoot leaving the institute never happens, so Here Comes Tomorrow never comes to pass.

1 or 2 things happen when a reality adjustment takes place, to diverge the future.

(1) the prior future, ceases to exist.
(2) It becomes a parallel reality.

2 most likely happens, because shortly after in War Song, Jean makes reference to “Here Comes Tomorrow.”

The thing that makes it silly is, that Phoenix did not have to manifest a universe, and have total control of the atoms within it. Not if it meant, to change the mind of a simple mutant. But its worthy feat (making up for the Xorn crap).

Originally posted by id369
The comic states Orphan Universe, Mr. M tagged it as Baby Universe. One has to understand, where the reference of orphan comes from. Its an entire Universe plucked out from the Multiverse, how could it be an Orphan? Oh…the relationship of Universe and Multiverse.

Basically Jean ascends to the White Hot Room, plucking out the future reality of 15104, and cures it. But the Phoenix Force was not contempt to how things ended up since reality 15104 is the direct future of 616. So Phoenix manifested the entire 616 reality in the palm of her hand, and administers reality adjustment. Scoot leaving the institute never happens, so Here Comes Tomorrow never comes to pass.

1 or 2 things happen when a reality adjustment takes place, to diverge the future.

(1) the prior future, ceases to exist.
(2) It becomes a parallel reality.

2 most likely happens, because shortly after in War Song, Jean makes reference to “Here Comes Tomorrow.”

The thing that makes it silly is, that Phoenix did not have to manifest a universe, and have total control of the atoms within it. Not if it meant, to change the mind of a simple mutant. But its worthy feat (making up for the Xorn crap).

👆 ✅

I don't agree with it becoming a parallel universe however as it was clearly withdrawn from the rest of the multiverse and absorbed into the white hot room.

Jean likely remembers the Here Comes Tomorrow future as due to her Phoenix nature she is not bound to time and space, so an alteration to it, especially one exacted by her from outside of time and space would not remove the memory.

Who knows for sure?

Either way it was an excellen story. Bring back Grant Morisson!! 😠

Big feat, but still, even Cosmic Cube, such as the Beyonder is beyond the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Big feat, but still, even Cosmic Cube, such as the Beyonder is beyond the Phoenix Force.

Pre retcon Beyonder debatably, no current continuity Cube Being however has performed a feat beyond the top Phoenix feats, plus its canon that they are below the Celestials who in turn are below the likes of Phoenix.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Pre retcon Beyonder debatably, no current continuity Cube Being however has performed a feat beyond the top Phoenix feats, plus its canon that they are below the Celestials who in turn are below the likes of Phoenix.

It was never said Celestial are bellow Phoenix Force. Beyonder gave on panel from his own power, PF powers to Rachel and said she could potentially live up to the first Phoenix. She was wielding the full PF powers. It was on panel and in BIOS.
So, feats or no feats, that happened, so considering that, it's already enough that we can give him beyond PF.

And that was Beyonder as Cosmic Cube, so it wasn't Pre-Retcon.

I would like to give PF beyond CC, but what happened on panel and it was also in bios, that cannot be the case.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It was never said Celestial are bellow Phoenix Force. Beyonder gave on panel from his own power, PF powers to Rachel and said she could potentially live up to the first Phoenix. She was wielding the full PF powers. It was on panel and in BIOS.
So, feats or no feats, that happened, so considering that, it's already enough that we can give him beyond PF.

And that was Beyonder as Cosmic Cube, so it wasn't Pre-Retcon.

I would like to give PF beyond CC, but what happened on panel and it was also in bios, that cannot be the case.

It was said the Celestials are below Eternity and Eternity has been said to be below the Phoenix Force.

On panel nowhere was it ever stated that Beyonder gave Rachel the full power of the Phoenix Force. All it said was that he gave her power to accomplish her desires

The bio alone said that. It wasnt confirmed on panel.

Anyway we'll debate this out of this thread if need be, lets not clog up a respect thread.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was said the Celestials are below Eternity and Eternity has been said to be below the Phoenix Force.

Where? On panel. It can be added in this forum as a something really important about PF.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Anyway we'll debate this out of this thread if need be, lets not clog up a respect thread.

Cool.

The Phoenix Force at a universal level is the Big Bang of a reality

It is the life force of reality:

The energies of creation which powers life

It was reborn in the Big Bang event. It is those energies made sentient.

The Phoenix Force perpetuates the cycle of a universe. Its rebirth as the Big Bang sees a universe born and it is the power that brings reality to a close in the natural scheme of things:

Its prime avatar is Jean Grey and she is sometimes used to perform the Forces work:

The Phoenix Forces involvement in reality is that which powers the process which sees the abstracts replaced by an evolved humanity:

The Stranger supports this notion put forward by Prosh by visualizing a Phoenix Force engulfed D.N.A chain spiralling from Earth up into space becoming Eternity:

The result of this process, the evolved humanity are said to replace the fundamental forces and take up their positions in the next universal cycle. Phoenix powering this process is therefore in line with on panel statements attributing the end of the cycle to Phoenix.

Eternity says the Force gives life to everything, when it starts the cycle again after the death of the old one:

That is why he calls it the "Resurrection Force" he says its the assurance of life.

The Phoenixes connection to the Big Bang and evolution are even stated in other realities.

In Ultimate X-men it is believed to be the Big Bang:

It is also regarded as a driving force behind evolution:

Further to this evolution connection, it is said to "burn away what doesnt work"

Here Jean exterminates a race she deems to be evolutionary deadends

The Phoenix is said to have been made to purify, to eradicate things which could impair the creation cycle it determines.

The Phoenix usually manifests through death. It is born into reality through death and it exits through death, that is the way of the Phoenix.

Jean Grey became Phoenix after dying on the space shuttle:

The sum and substance of life hope and dreams. All that is is known to Phoenix.

The Phoenix interacts with the physical plane from beyond reality via the psyche, while it is the ambient energy of creation, he "Mother of the stars" there is more to it than just what you see in reality

Phoenix dies for a purpose, she dies for the purpose of being reborn, for that is the way of the Phoenix. It is born in blood, flame and sacrifice, but always returns:

In the scene as she says that she visualizes the future destruction of New York that Xorn would bring about before killing her.

Further to the point, death is the way through which Phoenix is reborn into reality and the way it exits it. Jean initially became Phoenix after dying and death always has and always will be the path it takes to manifesting. Wolverine released Jeans Phoenix self by killing her:

She had to die to come back; it is the way of the Phoenix. She also states that she doesn’t know how long the Consciousness will let her stay around; in the same issue she would later be killed by Xorn.

Rachel brings life to an entire barren world by supercharging the worlds life force which had bonded with Meggan

In another reality, Phoenix stomps Dormammu in seconds: