Elders of the universe discussion thread

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/runnerelder.htm

The reason why Runner attempted to help Grandmaster destroy the universe is unrevealed; it's possible he felt he owed Grandmaster a debt, like Collector, but more than likely he was just bored and in it for the excitement. It was pretty out of character, but not nearly so much as Gardener (a total pacifist trying to destroy the universe?!?).I think the writers just used all the Elders they had, even if it made no sense, that's why they had to turn Contemplator into a Skrull imposter; the real Contemplator would never take part in such a plot. The two Elders who fomented this plot were the Astronomer and Grandmaster, Runner and the others had no real knowledge of the plan until it was near fruition.
It was Steve Englehart, who can write a great story, but tends to rationalize things however he sees fit.

😬

Do you think that writers have been taking liberties with the Elders of the universes characters in order to write a "good" story?

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/runnerelder.htm

The reason why Runner attempted to help Grandmaster destroy the universe is unrevealed; it's possible he felt he owed Grandmaster a debt, like Collector, but more than likely he was just bored and in it for the excitement. It was pretty out of character, but not nearly so much as Gardener (a total pacifist trying to destroy the universe?!?).I think the writers just used all the Elders they had, even if it made no sense, that's why they had to turn Contemplator into a Skrull imposter; the real Contemplator would never take part in such a plot. The two Elders who fomented this plot were the Astronomer and Grandmaster, Runner and the others had no real knowledge of the plan until it was near fruition.
It was Steve Englehart, who can write a great story, but tends to rationalize things however he sees fit.

😬

Do you think that writers have been taking liberties with the Elders of the universes characters in order to write a "good" story?

Originally posted by Alfheim

Do you think that writers have been taking liberties with the Elders of the universes characters in order to write a "good" story?

Just because they are all elders of the universe doesn't mean they are some sort of group. I think thats why writers make a mistake with them the few times they have tried to make a story happen with them.
They all have very different personalties and very different goals.
They should all be written as individuals.

Originally posted by Juntai
No more or less than they do for pretty much any character. Good characters get thrown under the bus all the time.

That doesnt make it right.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Just because they are all elders of the universe doesn't mean they are some sort of group. I think thats why writers make a mistake with them the few times they have tried to make a story happen with them.
They all have very different personalties and very different goals.
They should all be written as individuals.

I thought they were a group but the problem is sometimes they have different goals for example Contempltor is different from Champion. At any rate even if they are treated as individuals sometimes they are not portrayed correctly in my opinion.

Originally posted by Alfheim
At any rate even if they are treated as individuals sometimes they are not portrayed correctly in my opinion.

Right, Elders should not have any trouble with anyone who is under herald level. Even heralds should be nothing to an elder.

Barring some who are not warriors or fighters by any means.

What's the Champion's on-panel win-loss record? His portrayal is so far out of step with his character concept it is just sad. I really wish he'd shown up in Annihilation in some sort of Horatius at the Bridge type of scenario. That would have been cool.

The Grandmaster is about the only one they really seem to use properly on a semi-regular basis.

They sucked then, and they suck now. Except Runner and Grandmaster.

I don't see how they warrant a thread on their appearances in other comics... 20 years ago.

Closing.

yeah most of them suck

Originally posted by Laminator_X
What's the Champion's on-panel win-loss record? His portrayal is so far out of step with his character concept it is just sad. I really wish he'd shown up in Annihilation in some sort of Horatius at the Bridge type of scenario. That would have been cool.

Yeah. 🙁

Originally posted by Inhuman
yeah most of them suck

I disagree The Gardener is actually cool, he used to be an ally of Adam Warlock and hes taken on The Stranger, the fight was pretty cool.

Contemplator is cool, he has vast mental powers altered different timeleines and has met Captain America

Champion would be cool but they have ruined the character.

Possessor is cool. I think I saw a scan if him fighting Thor and Hercules but im not sure if that happened, I think he fought Hercules and Valkyrie instead.

Collector has had an upgrade.

cant be assed to go thorugh the others but they could be cool but it depends on the writer.

What the **** was Mark thinking when he made the Juidactor he/she looks wack....does Mark work with DC alot?

There were some cool stories in Thor way back featuring The Possesor, both as opponent and as an ally. The Collector played a key role in some classic Avengers stories as well. The concept has a lot of story potential (mmmmm, JLA Avengers).

Sadly, I think the last time anyone did something particularly interesting with them as a group was probably Thanos Quest, and that was a long time ago.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah. 🙁

I disagree The Gardener is actually cool, he used to be an ally of Adam Warlock and hes taken on The Stranger, the fight was pretty cool.

Contemplator is cool, he has vast mental powers altered different timeleines and has met Captain America

Champion would be cool but they have ruined the character.

Possessor is cool. I think I saw a scan if him fighting Thor and Hercules but im not sure if that happened, I think he fought Hercules and Valkyrie instead.

Collector has had an upgrade.

cant be assed to go thorugh the others but they could be cool but it depends on the writer.

What the **** was Mark thinking when he made the Juidactor he/she looks wack....does Mark work with DC alot?

Originally posted by Juntai
Having decent feats now and then doesn't make you a good character.

As far as the Champion goes, I don't think it was JUST the low showings that ruined the character.

Originally posted by llagrok
As far as the Champion goes, I don't think it was JUST the low showings that ruined the character.

I actually agree with you.

Originally posted by llagrok
As far as the Champion goes, I don't think it was JUST the low showings that ruined the character.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was more to the fact he was saying the person is a good character, because they got an upgrade, or performed such and such feat. The harsh reality is, none of them save maybe Grand Master are actually good characters.

I actually dont think thats the only thing that makes a decent character. If you look at my first post actually talked about their personalities as well. You are taking that post and forgetting everything else I said.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I actually dont think thats the only thing that makes a decent character. If you look at my first post actually talked about their personalities as well. You are taking that post and forgetting everything else I said.

"So and so is cool because they fought him and her"

That doesn't make good characters at all.

And the reality is, while they have 'potential', that is no different than any other character who has ever appeared in a comic- but in practice, they aren't very good interesting and compelling characters outside of perhaps Grandmaster that would even make most readers take notice much less give a damn about reading them.

Originally posted by Juntai
You haven't actually posted much of anything, especially anything that goes against what I posted above.. besides complaining you feel they're abused as characters and quoting the sections from Marvunapp.

There were 3 posts where I indicated that personality was important as well you cant just ignore 3 posts and just focus on one.

Originally posted by Juntai

The only post where you said much about how you feel about the characters is when you started saying things like;

"So and so is cool because they fought him and her"

Er no there were 3 other posts which indicated that I thought personality was important, stop ignoring my other posts.

That list just didnt just refer to powers for example when I said they ruined Champion it was not just his powerset, this was further indicated by when llagrok said its not just his low showings that ruined his character, I would assume hes talking about personality as well. I also said they ruined his 'character' that does not just refer to powers.

I also refered to Gardeners association with Adam Warlock, this indirectly related to his personality ie why is a pacifist trying to destory the uinverse and I felt he took part in some interesting stories.

I also refered to Contemplator meeting Cap, thats not about his powers but taking part in mainstream MU and not just the cosmos.

I also talked about the appearnces of characters as well. How the character is drawn is important but not the only aspect.

So maybe you misunderstood but that list was not just about powers.

Originally posted by Juntai

And the reality is, while they have 'potential', that is no different than any other character who has ever appeared in a comic- but in practice, they aren't very good interesting and compelling characters outside of perhaps Grandmaster that would even make most readers take notice much less give a damn about reading them.

Thats a matter of opinion as Laminator said Possesor and Collector actually had good storylines. I dont have a problem with your opinion just dont be saying stuff I didnt say.

Originally posted by Alfheim
There were 3 posts where I indicated that persopnality was important as well you cant just ignore 3 posts and just focus on one. That taking liberties.

Er no there were 3 other posts which indicated that I thought personality was important, stop ignoring my other posts.

That list just didnt just refer to powers for example when I said they ruined Champion it was not just his powerset, this was further indicated by when llagrok said its not just his low showings that ruined his character, I would assume hes talking about personality as well. I also said they ruined his 'character' that does not just refer to powers.

I also refered to Gardeners association with Adam Warlock, this indirectly related to his personality ie why is a pacifist trying to destory the uinverse and I felt he took part in some interesting stories.

I also refered to Contemplator meeting Cap, thats not about his powers but taking part in mainstream MU and not just the cosmos.

I also talked about the appearnces of characters as well. How the character is drawn is important but not the only aspect.

So maybe you misunderstood but that list was not just about powers.

Thats a matter of opinion as Laminator said Possesor and Collector actually had good storylines. I dont have a problem with your opinion just dont be saying stuff I didnt say.

The Gardener is actually cool hes taken on The Stranger, the fight was pretty cool.

Contemplator is cool, he has vast mental powers altered different timeleines

Champion would be cool

Possessor is cool. I think I saw a scan if him fighting Thor and Hercules but im not sure if that happened, I think he fought Hercules and Valkyrie instead.

Collector has had an upgrade.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's not a situation with me putting things in mouth - figuratively, since we're on the net - but rather how you came off by yourself. I call it as I see it.

LOL you actually deleted part of my original post as I suspected your a troll and a torublemaker. Spot the difference.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah. 🙁

I disagree The Gardener is actually cool, he used to be an ally of Adam Warlock and hes taken on The Stranger, the fight was pretty cool.

Contemplator is cool, he has vast mental powers altered different timeleines and has met Captain America

Champion would be cool but they have ruined the CHARACTER.

Possessor is cool. I think I saw a scan if him fighting Thor and Hercules but im not sure if that happened, I think he fought Hercules and Valkyrie instead.

Collector has had an upgrade.

cant be assed to go thorugh the others but they could be cool but it depends on the writer.

What the **** was Mark thinking when he made the Juidactor he/she looks wack....does Mark work with DC alot?

You actually deleted the important part of my post just so you could start an argument. I have nothing more to say to you. As I said before you ignore the THREE other posts that were to do with personality and not powers. Anyway im done.