Juggernaut vs. Thing (with twist naturally)

Originally posted by janus77
War Hulk almost killed Juggernaut, after slapping the snot out of him.

Onslaught +PHYSICALLY+ smacked Juggernaut across the continent, beat him to a pulp, left him +UNCONSCIOUS+. all pretty damned easily too. that incident was before the mansion (and the ripping out of the gem).

Juggernaut is just fairly durable, not invulnerable, not invincible, it's ridiculous to assert otherwise. there's plenty of characters who could kill Juggernaut with their fists, just pound him not dust.

Juggernaut once stood there and smiled after having his body blown up and only having his skeleton left.

Originally posted by Amp
lol What?

Juggernaut once stood there and smiled after having his body blown up and only having his skeleton left.

doesn't mean you can't be beat by greater physical force.

Originally posted by janus77
War Hulk almost killed Juggernaut, after slapping the snot out of him.

Onslaught +PHYSICALLY+ smacked Juggernaut across the continent, beat him to a pulp, left him +UNCONSCIOUS+. all pretty damned easily too. that incident was before the mansion (and the ripping out of the gem).

Juggernaut is just fairly durable, not invulnerable, not invincible, it's ridiculous to assert otherwise. there's plenty of characters who could kill Juggernaut with their fists, just pound him not dust.

War Hulk didn't even Scratch Juggernaut. He didn't almost kill him either. The only thing he did that was impressive was stop Juggernaut, nothing more.

Originally posted by janus77
others have done similar, not much of a feat.
Surfer reformed from having his body smashed to pieces.
Hulk from being atomised...

doesn't mean you can't be beat by greater physical force.

If you are referring to the Maestro thing, you're wrong. Maestro didn't come back to life under his own power. And he was dead for some time. Also, he wasn't the same after that either. He was a old husk looking thing that couldn't do anything without the Destroyer armor.

At Full power, Juggernaut has not been physically damaged.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
War Hulk didn't even Scratch Juggernaut. He didn't almost kill him either. The only thing he did that was impressive was stop Juggernaut, nothing more.

War Hulk had him at his mercy and just wasn't bothered enough to finish the job, the fact that he stopped, overpowered, and slapped him around indicates that he was overpowering the charm.

if the "unstoppable" is stopped, what remains of the Juggernaut?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
If you are referring to the Maestro thing, you're wrong. Maestro didn't come back to life under his own power. And he was dead for some time. Also, he wasn't the same after that either. He was a old husk looking thing that couldn't do anything without the Destroyer armor.

At Full power, Juggernaut has not been physically damaged.

what is "Full Power Juggernaut" and how is it different from "Classic Juggernaut" who got beaten silly by Onslaught and War Hulk?

and moreover, how does it differ from Cyttorak, in case you're thinking of Trion Juggernaut.

indisputable fact: Juggernaut is neither "unstoppable" nor impervious to physical force. merely very very tough (enough to take the godblast and keep on trucking). anything more is just self-deluded fanboyism.

Originally posted by janus77
I notice you avoid mention of ONSLAUGHT b*tch slapping juggernaut halfway across a continent, before the incident in the mansion where he rips out the gem. Juggernaut was fairly convinced he was hurt, hell he was begging for his +life+ 2nd time around.

War Hulk had him at his mercy and just wasn't bothered enough to finish the job, the fact that he stopped, overpowered, and slapped him around indicates that he was overpowering the charm.

if the "unstoppable" is stopped, what remains of the Juggernaut?

Maestro did reform from atomisation, and he wasn't "dead" as he was clearly conscious. dead = not conscious. not just non-corporeal.
Maestro fed off of the gamma from Hulks elsewhere in the timeline, as well as using ambient gamma radiation to reform himself. it was in a way, under his 'own' power... as gamma radiation soaking is his thing.

what is "Full Power Juggernaut" and how is it different from "Classic Juggernaut" who got beaten silly by Onslaught and War Hulk?

When Onslaught knocked him across country he wasn't physically injured. It was mentioned that Onslaught didn't just attack Cain physically, but mentally as well as he is basically a psychic being.

Yeah, I call Hulk knocking a 900 lb. man off his feet a huge strength feat. There were a total of three punches thrown in that comic. None of which said Hulk could even damage him.

Maestro was dead. If you read the comic, Bruce is talking to him in the after life. But Hulk was still walking around releasing massive amounts of gamma radiation. Some how that radiation reach Maestro and Bruce in the after life. At first it was a ploy to reunite Bruce and the Hulk, but Maestro took the opportunity and rejoined his body, in which he didn't fully heal and was really weak.

indisputable fact: Juggernaut is neither "unstoppable" nor impervious to physical force. merely very very tough (enough to take the godblast and keep on trucking). anything more is just self-deluded fanboyism.

and moreover, how does it differ from Cyttorak, in case you're thinking of Trion Juggernaut.

I don't know why people call him Trion Juggernaut because it wasn't the Trion that possessed him, nor was it Cyttorak. It was an unnamed Demon that released more of Juggs power.

😂
can't be bothered with the rest of your response 'cept, Juggernaut was torn up, battered, semi-conscious, scared sh*tless and hurt like he'd never been hurt before. and you say he wasn't "injured physically"?
pure. deluded. fanboyism 😐.

Juggernaut was pawned by Onslaught, PHYSICALLY. he was slapped silly. beaten to within an inch of his life.

Juggernaut can be and has been physically hurt. and by a power that couldn't do the same thing to Hulk. so it doesn't really take a Galactus to pawn juggernaut, since juggernaut can be put down by a power <<<< enough to put down Hulk.

Originally posted by janus77
😂
can't be bothered with the rest of your response 'cept, Juggernaut was torn up, battered, semi-conscious, scared sh*tless and hurt like he'd never been hurt before. and you say he wasn't "injured physically"?
pure. deluded. fanboyism 😐.

Did you actually read the issue? Or are you going on word of mouth? If you noticed in that issue his armor was torn up, but he didn't have a physical injury on him. Juggernaut has also been shown to take far more punishment without any scratches. Even if he was injured he has a healing factor as good as or greater than the Hulks, with the excpetion that Cain doesn't need any organs to still move and fight.

Juggernaut can be and has been physically hurt. and by a power that couldn't do the same thing to Hulk. so it doesn't really take a Galactus to pawn juggernaut, since juggernaut can be put down by a power <<<< enough to put down Hulk.

I don't really see what you are saying here. Onslaught KO'd a Bannerless Hulk who had Jean amplifing out his anger.

Besides, alot of people claim that Onslaught incident was just crap. Just like Hulk being choked by a Snake, being KO'd by a cement truck that Spidey threw at him, and being KO'd by Captain America and Spider-Man.

lol. juggernaut was ko'ed, buried in the road as a result of Onslaught's attack. juggernaut was plainly in pain and injured. I read the issue, I have the issue somewhere too...

War Hulk slapped around Juggernaut too, so the BS about "juggernaut can't be hurt physically" is just utterly deluded fanboyism. and it should be called whenever it's put out there 😐.

Onslaught couldn't put Hulk down, Jean did not "amplify" Hulk she merely took away some of Banner's restrictions... but as we've seen Hulk gets a hell of a lot stronger than he was when he fought Onslaught.

anyway, point is Juggernaut can be hurt physically, has been hurt physically, isn't all that resistant to physical attacks (not near Hulk levels, at least) and WILL GO DOWN once a significant number of Things are pounding on him.

Originally posted by janus77
utterly deluded fanboyism.

isn't all that resistant to physical attacks (not near Hulk levels, at least) and WILL GO DOWN once a significant number of Things are pounding on him.

Lol, do you type hypocritical things much? Unlike Hulk, Juggs hasn't been KO'd by a truck, or Capitan America, nor has he been choked by a snake. War Hulk, in fact, didn't even scratch Juggernaut. Juggs will always be more durable than Hulk.

Like I said earlier Juggs has a healing factor greater than Hulks. He can stand and fight without any organs. And before you say, "oh what about Onslaught". Well, explain the snake, or the truck, or the Spidey/Cap thing. Why didn't Hulk heal from those?

Originally posted by janus77
War Hulk almost killed Juggernaut, after slapping the snot out of him.

Onslaught +PHYSICALLY+ smacked Juggernaut across the continent, beat him to a pulp, left him +UNCONSCIOUS+. all pretty damned easily too. that incident was before the mansion (and the ripping out of the gem).

Juggernaut is just fairly durable, not invulnerable, not invincible, it's ridiculous to assert otherwise. there's plenty of characters who could kill Juggernaut with their fists, just pound him not dust.

This whole post smacks of lack of knowledge. War Hulk didn't come close to killing Juggernaut. No being possible can kill Juggernaut physically, except Cyttorak.

Nothing that had to Juggernaut in the Onslaught saga was on-panel. No one knows exactly what he did to Juggernaut. Nothing was proven. The whole gem in the chest thing was bogus considering that's not where Juggernaut keeps the gem. I can't imagine keeping a football sized rock just a few inches under your sternum.

janus77, I understand what you're trying to say (even though the argument has been done to death on both sides over the years in this forum), but what do Onslaught and War have to do with Thing?

Juggernaut would beat up the Thing so bad, that you would be able to put him in a box of Captain Crunch, and sell him for $3.29.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin

Like I said earlier Juggs has a healing factor greater than Hulks. He can stand and fight without any organs. And before you say, "oh what about Onslaught". Well, explain the snake, or the truck, or the Spidey/Cap thing. Why didn't Hulk heal from those?

You talking about D'Spayre?

Originally posted by Tron
janus77, I understand what you're trying to say (even though the argument has been done to death on both sides over the years in this forum), but what do Onslaught and War have to do with Thing?

so all it would come down to is reaching the right number of Things for that level of physical force.

I'm not applying any real world physics to this, of course, because there's only a limited number of Things that can possibly hit Juggernaut at any one-time, though there might be some means of harnessing their strength into some powerful unified attack.

maybe 500 Things? maybe 1000 Things, but there will come a time when Juggernaut will go down, because he can't endure the physical force opposing him.

How many 100s of Things would it take to equal 1 GodBlast... etc

As long as Thing understands what's going on with his increasing power, he'll just stay out reach for the first minute. Once he's up to class 200 (original Abomination level), that's already enough to go a couple of rounds.
Remember that the Thing is faster, smarter and a better fighter.
Eventually he'll just throw Juggs into orbit.

Originally posted by janus77
they're just demonstrations of the fact that juggernaut can be beat physically.

so all it would come down to is reaching the right number of Things for that level of physical force.

I'm not applying any real world physics to this, of course, because there's only a limited number of Things that can possibly hit Juggernaut at any one-time, though there might be some means of harnessing their strength into some powerful unified attack.

maybe 500 Things? maybe 1000 Things, but there will come a time when Juggernaut will go down, because he can't endure the physical force opposing him.

How many 100s of Things would it take to equal 1 GodBlast... etc

As I've said, the debate over Juggernaut's durability (and his loses to Onslaught and War) have been done to death, so I'll leave that debate alone cause it'll take up most of this thread, and and original thread regarding the major debate isn't coming up in search.

With that said, if Thing doesn't get laid out within his first minute or two, there's a chance that he could get strong enough to physically dominate Juggernaut. But, that'll be about it, since Juggernaut's power allows him to withstand physical punishment, there won't be any KO or death from it.

Originally posted by janus77
War Hulk almost killed Juggernaut, after slapping the snot out of him.

Onslaught +PHYSICALLY+ smacked Juggernaut across the continent, beat him to a pulp, left him +UNCONSCIOUS+. all pretty damned easily too. that incident was before the mansion (and the ripping out of the gem).

Juggernaut is just fairly durable, not invulnerable, not invincible, it's ridiculous to assert otherwise. there's plenty of characters who could kill Juggernaut with their fists, just pound him not dust.

Adding the fact that the gem wasn't in Jugg's chest proves that the writer didn't know much about Juggernaut.
So Juggernaut being damaged by Onslaught is PIS (or in error of writer) and rendered void.
Thus Classic Juggs has never been physically harmed by anyone as of yet.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Thing gets kayoed in the first minute like before.

🙄

Yeah... If you mean KO'd in the 1st minute like the last time, when Ben stopped Juggs forward momentum with one hand while being KO'd.

Sure... I see where your coming from.

Ben is already CL100... So after 1 min he's CL200, after 2 min he's CL400... And so on. He could just run around Juggs if chose to for a couple minutes and then BFR Juggs to the sun for the win.

And then The SENTRY applauds him.

😉

Ben runs around jugs for half an hour and then throws jugs to another state