Originally posted by Lord S
Come on, now...I'd give it to Apoc. Maybe 7/10...I'm not quite sold on the power of the Universal Weapon.
Whats it take to convince you?
He's beaten a merged Genis
He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous
He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)
He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion
Ronan wins 7-8/10
Originally posted by nimbus006Nicely down. I concur that Ronan wins this. He deals with more powerful characters than Apoc.
Whats it take to convince you?He's beaten a merged Genis
He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous
He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)
He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion
Ronan wins 7-8/10
Originally posted by nimbus006
Whats it take to convince you?He's beaten a merged Genis
He's beaten a herald level character in Ravenous
He's beaten Blackbolt (who by the way destroyed Apoc granted that was a House of M issue)
He's taken down the F4 in a dominating fasion
Ronan wins 7-8/10
Hmm, good point.
Originally posted by Decimus
Apocalypse wins due to evasion and versatility.
Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.
Versatility?
Ronan can:
- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray Vision
Theres more too.
Originally posted by nimbus006
Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.Versatility?
Ronan can:
- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray VisionTheres more too.
You're dealing in a lot of speculation here. Teleportation or BFR can be countered by Apocalypse, who teleports a lot faster. Especially where you claim that Ronan can fire energy blasts more powerful than anything Apocalypse can produce.
Attempting to use ABC logic is even worse, especially when Ronan had prep time against Black Bolt. Ronan is horrible when it comes to close combat and it's not like he ever dominated Ravenous. He lost once, then was able to get in a hit in their final battle.
Originally posted by nimbus006Well it's nice to see you know how to read a bio...but in the end he's just a guy in a suit who relies heavily on a weapon. Get the weapon out of his hand, and let's see what kind of damage he can do.
Evasion? What teleportation? Yeah, Ronan can do that as well.Versatility?
Ronan can:
- Transmute/manipulate matter which by itself is an extremely versatile power set.
- Fire energy blast way more powerful then anything Apoc. can produce.
- Fire EMP beams from his eyes
- Cryo-genetically freeze people in stasis fields
- Create displacement fields, force fields, vacuums, and barriers of absolute zero (which is kind of the same thing as cryo-freeze)
- Teleport or BFR opponents
- Manipulate/accelerate time albeit on a low scale
- Create a mannequin parasite which takes over opponents on molecular level, and submit to his command.
- Enhance his armor to adapt and analyze opponents power sets
- Has Superhuman Strength, Reflexes, Durability, Stamina, and is a master battle strategist.
- Search targets using X-ray VisionTheres more too.
So let's call it 50-50...
Originally posted by Lord S
Well it's nice to see you know how to read a bio...but in the end he's just a guy in a suit who relies heavily on a weapon. Get the weapon out of his hand, and let's see what kind of damage he can do.So let's call it 50-50...
Read a bio?
Those feats are all coming from scans.
Originally posted by llagrok
You're dealing in a lot of speculation here. Teleportation or BFR can be countered by Apocalypse, who teleports a lot faster. Especially where you claim that Ronan can fire energy blasts more powerful than anything Apocalypse can produce.Attempting to use ABC logic is even worse, especially when Ronan had prep time against Black Bolt. Ronan is horrible when it comes to close combat and it's not like he ever dominated Ravenous. He lost once, then was able to get in a hit in their final battle.
Let me clarify a few things for you:
1) All of those feats i listed were to counter Decimus's claim that Apoc wins via versatility. Ronan is just as verastile as Apoc if not more. I wasn't trying to state that Apoc can't counter any of these feats, just simply making it clear that Ronan is versatile too.
2) When i say "more powerful tha nanything Apoc can produce" Im speaking strictly in terms of energy blasts. Apoc is not known for producing powerful energy blasts on par with cosmic level beings.
3) Yes, you are correct, using ABC logic is an incorrect formula for proving certain characters can defeat others. However, i just wanted to prove a point that Ronan has defeated a character that Apoc was dominated by. Either way is scratch it, and lets move on.
4) Ronan is horrible at close quarter combat?!!? Come on Llag, thats a horrible statement. He's fought several characters (Surfer, Genis, Ravenous, Thing) in close quarter combat and done very well. You make it sound like he got in a lucky shot against Ravenous.
Originally posted by nimbus006
Let me clarify a few things for you:1) All of those feats i listed were to counter Decimus's claim that Apoc wins via versatility. Ronan is just as verastile as Apoc if not more. I wasn't trying to state that Apoc can't counter any of these feats, just simply making it clear that Ronan is versatile too.
2) When i say "more powerful tha nanything Apoc can produce" Im speaking strictly in terms of energy blasts. Apoc is not known for producing powerful energy blasts on par with cosmic level beings.
3) Yes, you are correct, using ABC logic is an incorrect formula for proving certain characters can defeat others. However, i just wanted to prove a point that Ronan has defeated a character that Apoc was dominated by. Either way is scratch it, and lets move on.
4) Ronan is horrible at close quarter combat?!!? Come on Llag, thats a horrible statement. He's fought several characters (Surfer, Genis, Ravenous, Thing) in close quarter combat and done very well. You make it sound like he got in a lucky shot against Ravenous.
1) Ronan has matter manipulation, which is a very versatile power. He doesn't use this nearly as well as Apocalypse uses his "self" manipulation though. Ronan is not particularly versatile for someone who has that power.
2) But neither is Ronan, his energy blasts aren't particularly powerful. He's always fighting lowly metas.
3) Who was Apocalypse dominated by? I know that the High Evolutionary would dominate Ronan with little trouble. (Mugni, don't you dare)
4) A lot of people have done well against the Surfer, few beat him. Apocalypse would have little trouble against the Thing in close combat and Ravenous was beating Ronan ALL over the place. The ONLY time Ronan harmed him was in their final fight when he smashed his hammer across Ravenous' face. That's not a move that would work very well on Apocalypse.
Originally posted by llagrokThe ONLY time Ronan harmed him was in their final fight when he smashed his hammer across Ravenous' face. That's not a move that would work very well on Apocalypse.
Oh so the only time he hurt Ravenous was when he CRUSHED his face so bad he knocked him out. Okay so what he still laid his ass out, and in a most devasting fashion i might add. Also, Ravenous wasn't doing anything to Ronan either during the last scrap. They were both going at it, talking crap then Ronan knocked him out.
Originally posted by nimbus006
Oh so the only time he hurt Ravenous was when he CRUSHED his face so bad he knocked him out. Okay so what he still laid his ass out, and in a most devasting fashion i might add. Also, Ravenous wasn't doing anything to Ronan either during the last scrap. They were both going at it, talking crap then Ronan knocked him out.
It was a definite one-shot, yeah. Ravenous even has half a metal face now, or bug face or what you want to call it.
I still don't think that Ravenous would ever be able to replicate that feat though, not against Apocalypse.