Secret Wars vs. Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder's personal recollection of said events:

Maybe i am interpreting them wrong...but it seems Doom did it without the beyonder wanting him to? or letting him get away with it
hmmmmmm

Originally posted by starlock
Maybe i am interpreting them wrong...but it seems Doom did it without the beyonder wanting him to? or letting him get away with it
hmmmmmm

imo,
In that particular instance, Doom punked Beyonder, [PIS or not].

Here's a brief account:

...........................................................................

Doom got stomped in one page.

Beyonder let his guard down and then Doom struck.

Meh ... not to mention he was being KEPT Alive by Beyonder during this crucial time:

Do you know why?

Because Beyonder coerced that entire event.

...........................................................................

This "Doctor Doom," that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that WASN'T really Doom (well technically it was but read)

that was a Future self of Doom plucked from a point in the Timestream
that DID NOT EXIST YET, courtesy of the Beyonder.

Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from a NON-Existent Future
to fight in the Secret Wars saga,
(which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology)

but the funny thing is Doom's body was already DEAD,
he had been dead since FF #260,
when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

...........................................................................

The insane part is,

Beyonder plucked Doom
from a Future that Beyonder himself was going to Created for Doom
FAR AFTER the Secret Wars series:

This is ALL well into the Secret Wars II series by the way.

...........................................................................

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama
that was already played out,
just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,

Beyonder speeds up that seperate event in time (Secret Wars I)
and ends up in the NOW,

with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

Beyonder enjoyed setting up humans,
with the notion of control and power,
just to see what they would do with it...
it happened several times.

...........................................................................

Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

...........................................................................

In that last scan,
Doom himself recognizes,
that Beyonder HIMSELF re-created the the first Secret Wars,
so Doom could steal his power.

Detailed account:

.....................................................................................

Beyonder took Doom from a Future that DID NOT Exist,
a Future that Beyonder himself had to Create.

Because Doom's body was Dead
and his mind was elsewhere in another man's body during the Secret Wars I series.

Beyonder couldn't find Doom anywhere on the physical plane or the astral,
so Beyonder plucked him from a Future that DID NOT Exist because well....
Doom was DEAD.

If Beyonder would not have sent Doom back to the FIRST Secret Wars during the Secret Wars II series,
the Timestream would have shattered, and Marvel would have been ERASED.

Beyonder plucks Doom from the Future to place him in the Secret Wars series version 1:

.....................................................................................

When Beyonder plucked Doom from the future...
it was a future that had not taken place yet (NON-EXISTENT)

.....................................................................................

This created a Time-Loop that could shatter the entire TimeStream

and ALL that came before it:

.....................................................................................

So Beyonder had to re-create Doom's original body:

.....................................................................................

Beyonder Merged Doom's body with Doom's mind:

Then he sent Doom back to the FIRST Secret Wars to allow that to play out

thus repairing that Time-Loop:

.....................................................................................

"clear the area before the Loop is closed, and Doom Re-appears"

.....................................................................................

"Beyonder created a Self-Perpetuating Circle in Time"...

.....................................................................................

To fill in the space in time that NEVER existed:

.....................................................................................

Had Beyonder killed Doom without re-introducing him to the past,

the TimeStream as we know it would have SHATTERED.

Because Beyonder took Doom from a Future that did NOT EXIST.

...............................................................................................

According to Jim Shooter

(Editor-in Chief of Marvel during Secret Wars I-II)
Creator/Writer of Beyonder/Secret Wars I-II)

...............................................................................................

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder by Marvel Age:

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title, created to strictly discuss Marvel stories,
and other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.

...............................................................................................

Jim Shooter on Beyonder:

Jim states:

1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of "our Universe ...

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

...............................................................................................

According to Jim:

The Marvel Universe was like Paramecium (a single cell organism)
swimming in a drop of water,
while Beyonder was an infinite Multiverse.

If the entire Marvel Universe was a Paramecium swimming in a DROP of Water,
just imagine what Galactus & his tech was. 😆

Btw. brother G, your scans are from issue #3
This below is from issue #8 ... so technically speaking, it's more canon. 😛

............................................................................................

Beyonder also informed us that no one could hurt him, WITHOUT Him allowing it:

"NO force in Existence could possible destroy me,
without my consent"

............................................................................................

Uhh, yep, I think it's safe to say,
that an infinitesimal organism withIN a Paramecium can't hurt an Infinite Multiverse,
unless as that Infinite Multiverse states,

"without my consent." 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Btw. brother G, your scans are from issue #3
This below is from issue #8 ... so technically speaking, it's more canon. 😛

............................................................................................

Beyonder also informed us that no one could hurt him, WITHOUT Him allowing it:

"NO force in Existence could possible destroy me,
[B]without my consent"

............................................................................................

Uhh, yep, I think it's safe to say,
that an infinitesimal organism withIN a Paramecium can't hurt an Infinite Multiverse,
unless as that Infinite Multiverse states,

"without my consent." 🙂 [/B]

Classic Beyonder solos anyone in the MU, regardless of HOTU or IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Btw. brother G, your scans are from issue #3
This below is from issue #8 ... so technically speaking, it's more canon. 😛

............................................................................................

Beyonder also informed us that no one could hurt him, WITHOUT Him allowing it:

"NO force in Existence could possible destroy me,
[B]without my consent"

............................................................................................

Uhh, yep, I think it's safe to say,
that an infinitesimal organism withIN a Paramecium can't hurt an Infinite Multiverse,
unless as that Infinite Multiverse states,

"without my consent." 🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said Doom destroyed/killed Beyonder --
just that Doom stole Beyonder's power against his will,
and Beyonder was unable to take his power back by force.

But according to Beyonder and acknowledged by Doom himself in the above scans,
(Post SS II series)
Beyonder created the Doom that "stole" much of his power.
Beyonder even re-created the entire Secret Wars I event.
(allowing it to happen)

And again, that wasn't even the real Doom, please read the scans friend.
That Doom was taken from a non-existent Future,
meaning, Beyonder created that Doom from Secret Wars I entirely.

So, by accident or design, Beyonder did indeed coerce Doom's actions,
cause if it wasn't for Beyonder, there would've been no Doom in SS I,
in fact, there would've been no Doom whatsoever anywhere in existence.

.......................................................................................

This all falls in line with the fact that Doom,
heck Galactus himself was less than an insect to Beyonder.

Again,
The Prime Multiverse,
(all of Marvel at the time with the exception of the Beyond Realm)
was nothing more than a Paramecium to the Multiverse Beyonder embodied.

Because of this,
I'm not surprised at all that Beyonder for whatever reason allowed that to happen.

Well, I know why Shooter did, $$$ ... lots of it. (best selling series ever)

None of that disproves what I said in the slightest. srsly

Doom stole Beyonder's power,
Beyonder was unable to reattain this power by force.

Originally posted by Galan007
None of that disproves what I said in the slightest.

Originally posted by Galan007
Doom stole Beyonder's power,
Beyonder was unable to reattain this power by force.

So this should be phrased:

The Doom that Beyonder created from a non-existent future,
stole much of beyonder's power

On the otherhand, I just found this: (from the retcon ... in the end, we learn the truth)

"You uncosciously wanted to satisfy others' desires"

.........................................................................................

Seems like Beyonder "Unconsciously" wanted to satisfy Doom's desires. 🙂

MM can't be speaking about the heroes of SS,
because Beyonder openly/consciously was going to give the winner their desires,
so who's left?
Who in Secret Wars I,
could have possibly gotten what they "desired" from the Beyonder,
without the Beyonder's openly accepted approval?

Only Doom did.

This is probably why Beyonder wasn't happy with his created Doom,
this is probably why Beyonder himself admitted Doom stole his power.
All along, it was Beyonder who permitted this "unconsciously".

But evidenbtly, he never knew.

So "in your opinion" that scan is directly referencing Doom stealing Beyonder's power in SW, correct?

I have no problem with your opinions, (they are usually well justified) -- but the above post is very much "iyo".....imo. 😛

Anyhow,
even if Beyonder manipulated/allowed the 'Doom event' -- the fact still remains that the very fallible Beyonder was unable to gain his powers back forcefully -- he needed Klaw.

So even if you are right,
Beyonder f*cked up royally...

It would be like handing someone a firearm -- then having them shoot you with it. [I highly doubt you'd want the latter]. 😂

i don't get how SWI fits in with the Retcon
shouldn't Doom w/Galactus' power be above Doom w/Retconned Beyonder's power ?

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyhow,
even if Beyonder manipulated/allowed the 'Doom event' -- the fact still remains that the very fallible Beyonder was unable to gain his powers back forcefully -- he needed Klaw.

So even if you are right,
Beyonder f*cked up royally...

It would be like handing someone a firearm -- then having them shoot you with it. [I highly doubt you'd want the latter]. 😂

Originally posted by Air Legend
Is there a point to you dwelling on this PIS event? Or are you just posting for the sake of posting like you do all too often?

Originally posted by Galan007

So "in your opinion" that scan is directly referencing Doom stealing Beyonder's power in SW, correct?

"You'll become what Doom desires so much"
................................................................................................

Bah, you know I'm forced by truth and won't lie to sway anyone,
that scan doesn't even truly apply cause it's from the retcon.
It's a cop-out explanation to justify the PIS.

But ol' Mr M is just trying to find that proverbial loophole. wink1

Darn it,
what I truly believe is that it was pis in the name of $$$. angry7
Evidently it worked too.

Originally posted by Galan007
I have no problem with your opinions, (they are usually well justified) --
but the above post is very much "iyo".....imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyhow,
even if Beyonder manipulated/allowed the 'Doom event' -- the fact still remains that the very fallible Beyonder was unable to gain his powers back forcefully -- he needed Klaw.

Originally posted by Galan007
So even if you are right,
Beyonder f*cked up royally...
It would be like handing someone a firearm --
then having them shoot you with it. [I highly doubt you'd want the latter]. 😂

Originally posted by 123KID
i don't get how SWI fits in with the Retcon
shouldn't Doom w/Galactus' power be above Doom w/Retconned Beyonder's power?

Although Doom had Galactus' power,
and the power of Galactus' Solar System size Ship. (that's the biggi)

At that time, (Oct. 1988)
it appears that Cube Beings were above Galactus in power,
and Celestials.

Then (in June 1993)
we learn that Celestials are definitely above Cube Beings,
and Galactus, was destined to become a Celestial (putting him above as well)

Although the "Galactus becoming a Celestial" part was a theory I must add.
Another arc, had Galactus destiny as being the next Eternity (Multiverse)

I guess it depends on Galactus' level at the given time.
We know,
Galactus can be so malnourished that even a band of heroes can challenge him,
on the other hand ... we also know,
that Galactus can create an entire Universe from scratch,
heck, even can absorb the entire Marvel Reality if he doesn't stop feeding,
we even witnessed what Galactus contains within him,
that is, a Star with "infinite energy" (that gives truth to his destiny)
Apparently, that Star is what what will give birth to the next Multiverse,
IF ... the Multiverse around him collapses.

After all,
it was such an event that gave birth to the current Marvel reality originally,
courtesy of the Infinity Being:

IB isn't mentioned here, but we know this from other factual arcs.