Punisher vs Wolverine

Originally posted by jinzin
You ARE of course aware that Wolverine's HF is far beyond Sabretooth from the early 90's pre-graydon creed ehanced/weapon x enhanced are you not?

What happened the last few times Sabes was shot with machine guns? ummmm nothing comes to mind.

And considering that Sabretooth who was put down for a night from a claw to the brain no sold it to a machine gun, it's safe to say that Wolverine who got up the next panel from being shot in the brain would do just as well. 😬

Even if that is the case that does not change the fact that Wolverine got downed by 5 people with machine guns. Frank has more powerful stuff than that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh ****. Wolverine can dodge bullets all day and you need the wrecking crew in order for him to get shot. Hell he got shot twice.

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinedaredevilmw7.jpg

Hell he even went argh!

You are also still ignoring this scan. Getting shot twice is not dodging, also this guy doesnt even have 1hrs prep. With 1hrs prep obvoulsy he woduld have been shot up even more.

Because Ennis' feats ARE bad writing... when you have to ignore a host of superheroes' powers just to get your character to the next story arc without looking like a clown... BAD WRITING.

And no it's not for "using our own argument against us" it's for standing by your affirmation that it's suitable evidence in spite of the countless discrepancies and THEN using that argument to support yourself, with less to stand on.

you guys said logan would have known the rocket launcher was coming. the same way i said frank would have known that shooting logan with an uzi or stabbing his foot ( 😆 ) is not going to kill logan.
oh and dragging him on marble wont either 😬

then you said, he'd have known frank was there cuz of his smell senses. and i point out that frank would know that going toe-to-toe against logan won't solve anything since in his own series (the steam roller incident) he said himself that he can't take logan

and for the time being, just tell me why frank would come after logan in this issue when he said himself that he isn't interested in the boyscouts or what they thought of him or evne what they did?

as far as Punisher vs. marvel was concerned, i said that he killed most of the people in believable ways. don't even use that against me.

~Sado

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if that is the case that does not change the fact that Wolverine got downed by 5 people with machine guns. Frank has more powerful stuff than that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You are also still ignoring this scan. Getting shot twice is not dodging, also this guy doesnt even have 1hrs prep. With 1hrs prep obvoulsy he woduld have been shot up even more.

Originally posted by Sado22
and ignoring frank's prep, his own line in his own series and making him use weapons any idiot would KNOW wont work on logan........all combined with three grenades blowing under logan's face and not even affecting him is what, jinzin?

Yeah here's the thing, Punisher for as calculating as he is, IS impatient, he IS impulsive that's why back in the early 90's when he had no face, he was running around trying to take people out with a knife before he even healed. Does Wolverine's senses work like a character trait? NO.. Do they just turn off? NO. How about DD's or Spidey's? NO. Hulk's durability and HF? NO.... but they do for the sake of a Punisher story written by Ennis.

Originally posted by Sado22
squirm around all you want. we both know that i pointed about the same things you point out against frank.

you guys said logan would have known the rocket launcher was coming. the same way i said frank would have known that shooting logan with an uzi or stabbing his foot ( 😆 ) is not going to kill logan.
oh and dragging him on marble wont either 😬

then you said, he'd have known frank was there cuz of his smell senses. and i point out that frank would know that going toe-to-toe against logan won't solve anything since in his own series (the steam roller incident) he said himself that he can't take logan

and for the time being, just tell me why frank would come after logan in this issue when he said himself that he isn't interested in the boyscouts or what they thought of him or evne what they did?

as far as Punisher vs. marvel was concerned, i said that he killed most of the people in believable ways. don't even use that against me.

~Sado

Because, Wolverine was killing the people Punisher was going after. Wolverine indirectly gt involved in Frank's business and Franks ego, and self-riteousness couldn't take it. Which IS also a Punisher character trait.

You used it as evidence to support your argument like the rampant fanboy you are... using it at all was something you did against yourself, I had nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by jinzin
For an undisclosed period of time. Frank may have more powerful weapons but they're not the kid of weapons that'll easily hit their mark.. Rockets? No. Grenades? No... what else then?

Er I know for starters he has at least one robotic gun.....

Originally posted by jinzin

I didn't ignore anything.. Wolverine's dodging bullets in that very scan, if your argument is that he can't dodge bullets at point blank range when he's attacking Punisher (which is all that scan could possibly prove) then Punisher's going to be in big trouble by the time that starts.

Thats not point blank thats further away than that. Wolverine starts running from about the same spot where Daredevil is. Point blank range is 3 feet, thats further. Why one earth is Wolverine having to run at him in the first scan if it only 3 feet?

Furthermore when does getting shot twice count as doding bullets???? You cant read scans but I miss the point, why the hell did he duck under that truck because he wanted to go for a nap?

edit: my bad yes it is point blank. that still does not change tha fact that is without 1hrs prep Frank could make it more difficult for him to dodge bullets espacially when hes an even better aim. The fact that somebody with less gun skills than Frank caused Wolverine to have to duck under the truck doesnt look good either....or at least comparable gun skills.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh ****
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AF34-18.jpg
lmao

Cant dodge a big ****** jet wheres his sense of smell? LOl and I had this comic as well no wonder I dont believe the stuff Wolverine fans tell me.

Then theres this. Cant detect the presence of a big filthy jet flying slowly but Frank cant distract him? Let me guess Frank is going to need Lady Deathstrike and a quinjet to pull that off.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er I know for starters he has at least one robotic gun.....

The odds of him still having it are very slim. The odds of him getting it with in an hour notices is even slimmer.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

edit: my bad yes it is point blank. that still does not change tha fact that is without 1hrs prep Frank could make it more difficult for him to dodge bullets espacially when hes an even better aim. The fact that somebody with less gun skills than Frank caused Wolverine to have to duck under the truck doesnt look good either....or at least comparable gun skills.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Then theres this. Cant detect the presence of a big filthy jet flying slowly but Frank cant distract him? Let me guess Frank is going to need Lady Deathstrike and a quinjet to pull that off.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yea and when was the last time he used it? Seeing as how he blow up his biggest safe houses and losts many more too shield.

The odds of him still having it are very slim. The odds of him getting it with in an hour notices is even slimmer.

Well you dont know wether he lost it or not do you? Furthermore im assuming that he has his standard stash of equipment. I was also under the impression that he actually has alot of equipment from shield now.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

The guy power was to make his arms into guns. Punisher at best is his equal in aim.

Er no that dont mean a goddamn thing, because thats his power means his better than Punisher. Hell a guy with an automated firing system couldnt shoot Spiderman Punisher has.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Also this does not help your causes, becuases assuming he even gets hit, he be at such closes range that it will not matter. Logan current healing factor>>>>>his healing factor then.

the point is that he got ***ed up by five guys with autoamtic weapons. Frank gets 1hrs prep hes probably going to be able to shoot Wolverine more times than that guy did. Even if he doesnty floor him he can at least slow Wolverine down and thats bad news.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

So now we uses low showings as the norm?

Its a not a low showing he was fighting Lady Deathstrike and was dsistracted. The point is that thing was flying much slower than a bullet and he couldnt detect it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you dont know wether he lost it or not do you? Furthermore im assuming that he has his standard stash of equipment.

So yes it very unlikely that he will have that item in this battle.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no that dont mean a goddamn thing, because thats his power means his better than Punisher. Hell a guy with an automated firing system couldnt shoot Spiderman Punisher has.

It means a lot when your arm can turn into a gun at will and you constantly uses it. Unlike Punisher who weapon of chooses is a firer arm, this dudes actual body is a firer arm.

Yes and punisher has also failed to time and again.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
the point is that he got ***ed up by five guys with autoamtic weapons.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Frank gets 1hrs prep hes probably going to be able to shoot Wolverine more times than that guy did. Even if he doesnty floor him he can at least slow Wolverine down and thats bad news.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its a not a low showing he was fighting Lady Deathstrike and was dsistracted. The point is that thing was flying much slower than a bullet and he couldnt detect it.

It was a low showing. A normal person would have heard a dam jet behind them.

Logan has detected much quitters and faster objects.

Again using a characters low end showing as the norm while taking another at there best lol typical.

Yeah here's the thing, Punisher for as calculating as he is, IS impatient, he IS impulsive that's why back in the early 90's when he had no face, he was running around trying to take people out with a knife before he even healed. Does Wolverine's senses work like a character trait? NO.. Do they just turn off? NO. How about DD's or Spidey's? NO. Hulk's durability and HF? NO.... but they do for the sake of a Punisher story written by Ennis

and i don't think frank is impatient. against Fisk, frank laid his whole plan in motion and was patiently waiting for the right time to strike.........for several weeks. impatient? i don't think so. any guy who has sniper training is NOT impatient because part of the job requires you to hold your position for hours on end. i have all 4 volumes of punisehr comics lying aorund in my harddisrk, one shots, special guests, miscs and team ups and i can give one proof after another that frank is not impatient. nor is he impulsive..............the only time he gets impulsive is when a criminal is around. and that wolverine is NOT.
no dice, jinzin.

as for logan and the dunces, we all have been through the whole "logan can't see things coming when he's distracted or not paying attention etc" case in point, the past few pages where there is one proof after another that logan can be shot, even a relatively close range and EVEN when he sees it coming. give it up already. as for hulk and his HF............read the issue again. its all explained there.

Stabbing him nor dragging him were attempts to kill Logan. They were set ups for something else.

~Sado

hypocrit.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He ahs current equipment stash. We know most all of them were found by shield and then we know for a fact that his most advances tech was blown up during the alien invasion.

So yes it very unlikely that he will have that item in this battle.

Dont wether the gun was taken though do we. It might have been but since we dont have anyone saying that they took im going to assume he still has it. Im pretty sure Shield probably would have equipment that could replace that.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

It means a lot when your arm can turn into a gun at will and you constantly uses it. Unlike Punisher who weapon of chooses is a firer arm, this dudes actual body is a firer arm.

Yes and punisher has also failed to time and again.

1. No it dont mean a goddamn thing, as the example I gave Punisher did better than the guy who had an automated firing system, according to your logic that guy should have done better.
2. Spiderman has better reflexes than Wolverine!!!!!

Originally posted by Battlehammer

It not the same thing. For starters there five of them. Secondly he stood there an let them shoot him. 3rdly he did not want to harm them in the least nor did he attempt to leave. None of this he will do for punisher making it quite irrelevant,

Punisher has two arms and one robotic gun. Thats 3, he can probably soften up Wolverine with explosives and traps so that could make up the difference. Prove that he meant to get shot.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Complete speculation that he will be able to hitt him more. Not to mention the fact that in no way should he be slow down. Were are you getting this from? He recently has taken far more damage then a view gun shot wounds and kept fighting. Punisher at best will shot him onces or twices before it becomes closes quarters fight.

Oh for god sake.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

It was a low showing. A normal person would have heard a dam jet behind them.

Logan has detected much quitters and faster objects.

Again using a characters low end showing as the norm while taking another at there best lol typical.

Read the scan again the jet didnt make a sound. He was fighting Lady Deathstrike for god sake and was distracted, its not a bloody low showing its what you would exepect to happen, if he was standing there doing nothing thats another matter.

He also ahsnt been able to detect faster things time and time again.

hypocrit.

Lulz at this thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er I know for starters he has at least one robotic gun.....

A robotic gun? ooooooohhhh how can Wolverine possibly negotiate that?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats not point blank thats further away than that. Wolverine starts running from about the same spot where Daredevil is. Point blank range is 3 feet, thats further. Why one earth is Wolverine having to run at him in the first scan if it only 3 feet?

he doesn't get shot til he's at point blank range.. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Furthermore when does getting shot twice count as doding bullets???? You cant read scans but I miss the point, why the hell did he duck under that truck because he wanted to go for a nap?

No because he wanted to light Bushwacker up, which is exactly what happened. Again, Logan WAS dodging bullets until he got up to point blank range.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
edit: my bad yes it is point blank. that still does not change tha fact that is without 1hrs prep Frank could make it more difficult for him to dodge bullets espacially when hes an even better aim. The fact that somebody with less gun skills than Frank caused Wolverine to have to duck under the truck doesnt look good either....or at least comparable gun skills.

And again, Bushwhacker wasn't a threat until Wolverine got to point blank range, if that's the best evidence you have it's evidence at point blank range, if Wolverine gets within point blank range of Pun, Frank will die.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then theres this. Cant detect the presence of a big filthy jet flying slowly but Frank cant distract him? Let me guess Frank is going to need Lady Deathstrike and a quinjet to pull that off.

Originally posted by Sado22
frank is not impulsive and he's not impatient. the only thing is that his hatred for criminals is of fanatic levels. that's all. wolverine isn't a criminal and that's why the above doesn't even remotely make sense.

and i don't think frank is impatient. against Fisk, frank laid his whole plan in motion and was patiently waiting for the right time to strike.........for several weeks. impatient? i don't think so. any guy who has sniper training is NOT impatient because part of the job requires you to hold your position for hours on end. i have all 4 volumes of punisehr comics lying aorund in my harddisrk, one shots, special guests, miscs and team ups and i can give one proof after another that frank is not impatient. nor is he impulsive..............the only time he gets impulsive is when a criminal is around. and that wolverine is NOT.
no dice, jinzin.

as for logan and the dunces, we all have been through the whole "logan can't see things coming when he's distracted or not paying attention etc" case in point, the past few pages where there is one proof after another that logan can be shot, even a relatively close range and EVEN when he sees it coming. give it up already. as for hulk and his HF............read the issue again. its all explained there.

stop pulling that out from nowhere. it was bad writing and you know it.

~Sado

he's not impatient or impulsive he only pulls out a gun and even pulls the trigger to kill heroes on a semi-regular basis.

How is it explained? Hulk's powers come from a friggin pocket demension, but hey it's an Ennis written Punisher so let's forget about that.

What's sad is that everyone knows that practically ALL low level to mid tier street level heroes can dodge and evade gunfire, but Wolverine who's a top tier streeter with far more physicality can't according to you, even when all your examples ignore context.. do you now how man scans I can post of Wolverine dodging and weaving through gunfire? It's not even funny how much it curbs your "evidence"

Originally posted by jinzin
but hey it's an Ennis written Punisher so let's forget about that.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
its funny how much you and battlehammer hate ennis

But I actually enjoy his max stuff and collect it regularly.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I don't hate him. I think he extremely bias. I think he lets his bias effect his work when dealing with punisher. I know he hates super powered hero's. I know he loves punisher. I know that when he has punisher fight super power individuals he rights them very inaccuratly and boosts punisher.

But I actually enjoy his max stuff and collect it regularly.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
its funny how much you and battlehammer hate ennis

I dunno if it's hate as much as it is disrespect.

I think writers should hold themselves to a higher standard and leave their bias off the page, but he doesn't.

I just get up in arms about it because the people who use it as definitive evidence for what Wolverine can or can't do ignore that bias, and an entire career of his that DOES stand as more definitive than one Ennis written cluster****.

Originally posted by jinzin
I dunno if it's hate as much as it is disrespect.

I think writers should hold themselves to a higher standard and leave their bias off the page, but he doesn't.

well, some folks think he writes characters to how they were originally intended to be

I enjoyed his portrayals of the superheroes