Originally posted by inimalist
ummm, noI said I am making no claims about it, since it is not something I am informed on
I think you missed all the posts I made about the historical accuracy of a book being useless when addressing the supernatural content within.
One need not find contention with every point made in the bible to see it as nonsense, nor does one need biology or any science to do the same.
so I wouldn't actually have to read the bible to make any informed comment about it?
gee, I hope you are some PhD adviser somewhere, because with that attitude I could pick up a degree in everything from early British children's literature to quantum cryptography.
Yes, one must be familiar with the work they are criticizing.
One must be familiar with the work one is critisizing, only if one is criticizing a specific work -- and I didn't.
Originally posted by Tim Rout
One must be familiar with the work one is critisizing, only if one is criticizing a specific work -- and I didn't.
🙄
So I can judge "christians" having no experience with the works, texts, practices or what have you of their religion?
lol, and way to not even address the point of my post. I'll be sure to write anything further in such dense legalese that it is impossible to make such inane misconceptions about what I have written.
Long story short, unless you have some peer-reviewed stuff to back up anything you are saying about science or scientists, you are making claims from an ignorant position. To make sweeping claims about entire fields is much harder than claims about specific documents, but I'm sure you are only doing it because it is easy to say ridiculous things on the internet, you know, where the anonymity prevents people from knowing how terrible and intellectually dishonest your arguments are.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonI was down at South Street in Philly one night and had to park several streets down and after the night at the bar went looking for my car and walked up and down the street and couldn’t find it. I kept getting to this one street and kept saying to myself “I know I didn’t park this far away”, so after about an hour of walking up and down I go to that street and there it is. 😆
😮 Well, that was me. I only drive when I get really, really drunk. 😆 jk.Have you looked at your car today?
I used to drive a long time ago. Have you ever misplaced your car? I did once. 😆 No joking.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I was down at South Street in Philly one night and had to park several streets down and after the night at the bar went looking for my car and walked up and down the street and couldn’t find it. I kept getting to this one street and kept saying to myself “I know I didn’t park this far away”, so after about an hour of walking up and down I go to that street and there it is. 😆
I don't feel so alone now. 😆
Re: Re: The John 3:16 & 4:16 flaw?
Originally posted by Tim Rout
John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." [NLT]John 4:16 says, "'Go and get your husband,' Jesus told her." [NLT]
I'm not sure what sort of flaw you are implying, or what relationship you are trying to draw between Nicodemus the Pharisee (John 3) and the Samaritan woman (John 4), but there is neither flaw nor contradiction in these passages.
Now to your question: What happens to those who lived a good life but never knew about Jesus; do they still go to hell?
Yes. They still go to hell. And why? Because they are imperfect sinners who are unsuitable for God's perfect heaven. Once more, they know it!
God has given everyone a conscience -- an inner sense of right and wrong -- a sense that there has to be something beyond the tangibles of this world. While this inner sense is insufficient to save a person, it is more than sufficient to make a person conscious of his sins. Here's how the Bible puts it:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." [Romans 1:18-20/NASB]
While the special revelation of the Bible might not be universally available, the general revelation of God's created order is open to every competent person. ("Competent" excludes very young children or mentally disabled persons who are not able to comprehend their guilt before God. "The Lord preserves the simple." [Psalm 116:6/NASB])
It might be nice to think that some lost tribe in some deep jungle might actually live sinless lives, but the Bible says otherwise. Unfortunately, every person who has ever been born (except Jesus) was born with a sinful nature. We are all sinners who constantly do things we know are wrong [Romans 3:10-23]. When our friends from the long lost judge tribe stand before the Lord on judgment day, they will be without excuse. Each of them will be guilty of imperfection, and this is more than enough to condemn them.
"Hold on!" someone might protest. "That's not fair! How can God condemn people, when they haven't even had a chance to believe in Jesus?"
And they'd be right. It's not fair. If God were fair, He would immediately throw every sinner into hell and be done with it. Judicial fairness demands that all offenders be equally punished in accordance with the law, and the law says all sinners must die [Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:23].
But God isn't fair. He is so much MORE than fair. The Bible says that God is GRACIOUS [2 Thessalonians 2:16-17].
Yahweh loves human beings so much, that He has taken extraordinary action to save some of us, even though all of us deserve hell. Grace is usually defined as "unmerited favor". Even though we can't hope to deserve it, God extends His grace to every person who hears the message about Jesus and chooses to believe.
But this brings us back to our friends in the jungle. If they have never heard of Jesus, they are facing a doomed eternity apart from God. And that's why crazy Christians like me spend our time tell as many people as will listen about the wonderful love of God in Christ. In fact, it's the reason I'm talking to you now. Jesus had a lot to say about God's grace. One thing He told His disciples as He sent them out preaching.... "Freely you have received. Freely give." [Matthew 10:8] For those who have received the forgiveness God offers in Jesus Christ, it is our great privilege and responsibility to pass on what we know.
yawn
Originally posted by Tim Rout
Regarding your last:I have said all along that no Christian can be a Christian without faith. But my faith is based on a reasonable consideration of the facts, not simply the word of a preacher or the opinion of a pious grandmother, as you have sometimes suggested.
What facts is your Faith based on brother ?
Originally posted by Tim Rout
Asked and answered many times in this and other strings. I'm sure Shaky or another helpful person can direct you thus. 🙂
I am not doubting you brother. For I too share your Faith in the Lord 🙂
Soon these infidels shall burn in the Inferno Satan has ready for them. Then they will be sorry. Fear not brother. Thier time will come 🙂
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are a sick man. 😆
QUIET INFIDEL !!!!!
SOON YOU SHALL BURN !!!!! BURN FOR YOUR FALSE BELIEFS AND HERESY !!!!!
I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU SUFFER IN HELL, IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, WHILE ME AND MY LOVING GOD WATCH YOUR SUFFERING WITH A LARGE SMILE ON BOTH OUR FACES !!!!
DIE INFIDEL ! DIE !!!!
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
[B]QUIET INFIDEL !!!!!SOON YOU SHALL BURN !!!!! BURN FOR YOUR FALSE BELIEFS AND HERESY !!!!!
I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU SUFFER IN HELL, IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, WHILE ME AND MY LOVING GOD WATCH YOUR SUFFERING WITH A LARGE SMILE ON BOTH OUR FACES !!!!
DIE INFIDEL ! DIE !!!!
[/B]
Hell does not exist. You are just an extremest. 🙄