Wolverine vs Punisher with a twist

There will be three seperate matches.

The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.

The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.

There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.

Who wins which matches and why.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
There will be three seperate matches.

The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.

The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.

There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.

1. very tough match...I'd give a slight advantage to Frank because

a) Logan isn't used to fighting without claws
b) Logan is used to being reckless, which ain't a good thing without a HF saving your ass
c) Frank has longer reach (being over 6 feet compared to the midget that Logan is)

so Punisher 6/10

2. Wolverine 8/10 - he can smell Frank and know exactly where Frank is but Punisher will have trouble tracking Logan

3. Wolverine 6/10...not sure about this one

Originally posted by Master-Borg
1. very tough match...I'd give a slight advantage to Frank because

a) Logan isn't used to fighting without claws
b) Logan is used to being reckless, which ain't a good thing without a HF saving your ass
c) Frank has longer reach (being over 6 feet compared to the midget that Logan is)

so Punisher 6/10

2. Wolverine 8/10 - he can smell Frank and know exactly where Frank is but Punisher will have trouble tracking Logan

3. Wolverine 6/10...not sure about this one

As for the HF, he was given three months to cope with the changes which is more then enough time to adapted. Logan has done soo with far less time in the past.

Frank is very reckless individual as well.

Now for the hieght advantage. Punisher though is taller and longer reach also is a larger target, and worse centure of gravity.

Logan being smaller grant makes him harder to hit, it also gives him a great centure of balance. Also He is trained and master of numerous martial arts which allows him to overcome any reach advantage. He also has villains such as Ogun, silver samuria, Lady death strike ect. who all have a massive reach advantage and it never has been a problem for him, becuases like any good martial artiest he has trained to overcome such difficulties.

food for thought .

bump

The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.

The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.

There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
Castle 7/10. for a simple reason that he's more experienced with knives

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm leaning towards castle since he's more focused, less reckless and has longer arm reach. oh and he also has the size advantage.

How Punisher less reckless? You keep saying reckless as if it an argument, but really just seems more of a cop out to me.

Question why would you mention arm length and size advantage as separate things? I mean the only real advantage of size for Punisher would be longer reach. Logans a master martial artiest who knows the in and outs of reach and as trained to overcome this advantage. Also Logan faces the likes of silver samuria, ogun, dady deathstrike ect. All of which have reach advantage.

Originally posted by Sado22
hmmm...i think punisher is better at guirella warfare. he has experience in nam, and has also fought in many jungles against enemies. he even took out a mafia stronghold with weapons made out of bearbones and teeth.

Experience in nam is good. Wolverine also has that, plus korea, plus ww1 and 2 ect. So I don’t see experiences being any advantage to Punisher, it be more of a disadvantage if anything.

Logan took a pantaloon out with a knife.

Originally posted by Sado22
Logan is also an expert and his enhanced senses will be a great help. however, he's too reckless. i doubt his habits of being reckless will stop just cuz one day he can't use his HF and adamantium.

Also he done quite fine when his healing factor has been taken from him.

Also he lived his live without the knowledge of a healing factor longer then Punisher has been walking this earth.

So reckless is really not a good argument.

Originally posted by Sado22
there was a wolverine/punisher crossover where they both were supposed to escape from some badguys in a jungle. wolverine got caught cuz of his recklessness but frank managed to save logan AND kill all the guys.

Also again an awful arc. Which both wolverine and Punishers abilities were placed down very badly.

Punisher had trouble with 20 unskilled men……..

Not the best issue to uses as evidences of either mens abilities.

Well not saying your opinion is wrong, but just correcting the few mistakes you made about Wolverine. Which I am assuming you don’t read.

Logan takes the first and third fairly easily.

Dunno about the second scenario.

battlehammer, calm down and learn to read. i said this:

however, we can't forget that before wolverine knew he was a mutant he was an expert knife fighter himself. i'm leaning towards castle since he's more focused, less reckless and has longer arm reach. oh and he also has the size advantage.

How he more focus? Seam’s odd to say when one of wolverines most study MA structures around focus

Question why would you mention arm length and size advantage as separate things? I mean the only real advantage of size for Punisher would be longer reach. Logans a master martial artiest who knows the in and outs of reach and as trained to overcome this advantage. Also Logan faces the likes of silver samuria, ogun, dady deathstrike ect. All of which have reach advantage.

Experience in nam is good. Wolverine also has that, plus korea, plus ww1 and 2 ect. So I don’t see experiences being any advantage to Punisher, it be more of a disadvantage if anything.

Logan took a pantaloon out with a knife

He has 3 months to get use to the difference.

Also he done quite fine when his healing factor has been taken from him.

~Sado

Match 1: Toss up. Punisher is a better knife fighter and has been training with them alot nowadays and Logan might be out of practice. Now Logan finds a way to disarm Frank and get it down to H2H Logan should win every time. He's on another level when it comes to martial arts.

Match 2: Punisher for the simple fact that he's better with guns, guerilla warfare, and Logan might still be reckless and thinks he's a bullet resistant magnet. He might have 3 months but he will follow his intincts.

Match 3: Typical Wolverine vs Punisher fight. Wolverine win almost every time unless Punisher has prep.

Match 1: Toss up. Punisher is a better knife fighter and has been training with them alot nowadays and Logan might be out of practice. Now Logan finds a way to disarm Frank and get it down to H2H Logan should win every time. He's on another level when it comes to martial arts.

Match 2: Punisher for the simple fact that he's better with guns, guerilla warfare, and Logan might still be reckless and thinks he's a bullet resistant magnet. He might have 3 months but he will follow his intincts.

Match 3: Typical Wolverine vs Punisher fight. Wolverine win almost every time unless Punisher has prep.

Originally posted by Sado22
battlehammer, calm down and learn to read. i said this:

Pleases explain to me how I missed up you said? Were in my responses did I hint that I miss read what you had typed?
You said this which I quoted

Originally posted by Sado22
Castle 7/10. for a simple reason that he's more experienced with knives

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Wrong. Logan primary weapon was Knifes all the way up to the Weapon x project. Meaning Logan has more years’ knife fighting then Punishers been alive.

No were in this responses do I show that I miss read a single word of your responses, but that’s for the piety insult.

Originally posted by Sado22
stop being such a baby

I was trying to simply inform you and you attack me. Then you have the nerve to call me the baby, when I was clearly not upset in the least, but you on the other hand are showing that maybe you need to chill out and calm your self.

It a forum, not the end of the world sport.

Originally posted by Sado22
and yet he is iconic for his bad temper and reckless nature.

Because Logan average portayial has not been such in decades, he actually extremely calm combatant. He does not lose his temper in battle and he not that reckless and even less so when his healing factor has been taken from him.

Punisher is not any more calm or less reckless then Logan.

Originally posted by Sado22
oh and i almost forget berserker rage.

Not the best way to debate. Having such out dated inaccurate knowledge can really hurt your arguments.

Also if Logan went berserker, that would be the very last thing Punisher would wan’t.

Here little bit of knowledge of what berserker rage does to wolverine’s brain
http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojwk4.jpg

Here description of part of what it does for him physically
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm140pg13to8.jpg\

Also in Wolverine volume 2 issues 31 to 33 further explains Logan physical abilities while berserker, they are boosted to there top levels. Berserker is as if Wolverine took the thunder bolt pill. The thunder bolt pill if given to a normal human amplifies all there physical attributes to superhuman levels.

So Punisher really does not want Wolverine to go berserker.

Originally posted by Sado22
and stop playing the MA card. we all know that you can spend 20 years of your life learning MA and still brawl when the time comes to fight. Steve Rogers on the other hand IS focused.

I not sure what your definition of brawl is, but to brawl means “a noisy quarrel, squabble, or fight.”

So I am not sure what you are getting at. I mean it is common senses that someone who spent 20 years learning MA can fight.

Also why would I not use the fact Logan a MA fighter? He is one and one of the best. You don’t see me telling you not to use the Punisher was in Vietnam card, because it as stupid as you tell me not to use MA card. Why should a characters skill or attribute be ignored? Is it due to the fact you have no real argument against it?

You keep saying focus as if that an argument. It stupid argument and plan foolishness to say a character is not focused when you have little knowledge of the character. Not to mention the fact that the Martial art style that has been most influential in his life and which he has been imbued into his core being, teaches focus as well as control as one of it fundamental teachings.
Steve is no more focused then Wolverine is.

Here are some Martial Art feats to assure you he a top tier Martial Artiest.

Wolverine agent of shield Part 4 of 6 issue 29: Wolverine attacks the hand ninja’s secret base and training facility which has roughly 15,000 hand ninjas. Logan shows amazing skill and never even takes a single hit.

X-Men Phoenix WarSong issue 1: Logan shows his mastery over the Bo staff while training Phoebe how to fight.

Wolverine displaying his knowledge of holds
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinedisplayingholdqy7.jpg

Wolverine displaying a standing kimura (info thanks to soljer)
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=km1qm2.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=km2pd1.jpg

Here Wolverine demonstrating his accuracy throwing a sword.
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinev1035wolverinetg8.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinev1035wolverineqv3.jpg
Left Handed.
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinev1035wolverineli7.jpg

Wolverine displaying one of his numerous mastered styles to kitty, also stated he trained her is Budo, to fight with wooden sticks.
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excalibur85p10kd0la4.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excalibur85p1112nr8xs1.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excalibur85p13ud4if9.jpg

Wolverine accuracy and skill
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine40vi5ia2.jpg
Not he cut around the cyborgs body
http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine41ug2.jpg

Here are a few matches were Logan uses his Martial Art skills to overcome other skilled Martial Artiest.

Wolverine Origins issue 4: Wolverine fights Capt and gives him a blood clot.
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverineorigins04page1wp6.jpg
during issue 5 Capt is rush to the hospital, giving Wolverine the win.

Wolverine origins issue 19: Bucky pulls a gun on Wolverine and plans to shoot him in cold blood. Logan is able to disarm Bucky with out being shot and puts him in a choke old displaying his grappling prowess. Bucky is soon Koed. Bucky had been trained by Captain America him self, as well as the same individuals who had trained Captain America. Bucky is one of the best back then and now, Logan states that he himself is “still better”.

Punisher stated that Bucky would kill him
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisheradmittsbuckywouzc7.jpg

Guest-Starring Wolverine justice, Like Lightning… New Thunderbolts Enemy Of The State Tie-In issue 4: Wolverine while under mind controlled by Hydra fights with the New Swordsman. Wolverine out fights New swordsman to the point were even New Swordsman states he can not hold of Logan much longer and that was only after a few short panels.

X-Men 97 hellfire Hong Kong guest –starring Shang-chi master of king-fu issue 97: Wolverine defeats Shan-chi in h2h combat rather easily showing Logan as the superior martial artist. It only takes Logan 5 panels to accomplish this.

Wolverine fighters Daredevil and puts him in a full nelson with in 5 pannels
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinevsdaredeviloa3.jpg

Originally posted by Sado22
also logan hasn't used a knife for a long time. a few decades to be precise.

Death Blow and Wolverine issue 2 which happen after Logan was part of the x-men and had adamatium claws.

Logan not using knifes in a long time would not take away his 50 plus years of experiences using them as one of his primary weapons. Three month’s would plenty of time to readjust him to the way in which one knife fights.

Also Punisher though may uses knifes, does not very often rely on them. He uses guns much more then a knife. Wolverine claws and how they are used would be very closely linked with knife fighting as would Logan’s constant training with swords.

Also Logan was also using knifes as his primary weapon during “Logan shadow society” one shot issue in which he works with Carol Danvers.

He also was picked for certain missions for the CIA due to his skills with knifes as shown in the “Weapon X” Novel

Originally posted by Sado22
arm length and size are the same thing?
get real man. is said size because size matters in a fight. one of them is a 5''3 pieceofshit and the other guy is heavy set 6"4 guy. and not to mention logan is the storky type with short arms and legs.

Saying “5’3 pieceofshit” does not really make one view your opinion favorably.

Punisher can be as “heavy set” as he wishes, it not am advantage when your opponent is stronger. Also Punisher is not 6”4, he 6”1 and he only 5 pounds heavier then Wolverine.

Originally posted by Sado22
also if logan has faced those guys (with his claws and healing factor and not a damn knife which is what this thread is about)

Originally posted by Sado22
i only need to bring up frank beating the likes of Bullseye IN A KNIFE fight.

You really need to stop miss representing events.

Originally posted by Sado22
they keyword was "guirella warfare". you don't fight guirella warfare on open land or at sea or at the beach.

It can be fought anywhere and was used in WW2.

Also Logan would still have the advantage since he has fought in both Korea and Vietnam, while Punisher only fought in Vietnam.

Also Logan has trained extensively as Ninja and as a number of Special Forces units that focus on ambushing.

Originally posted by Sado22
that's a real feat. bet it took a lot out of him too 😆 😂 🤣

Originally posted by Sado22
so does frank. and the last time we saw, frank took him out with rocket launcher after preperation.

Frank does not get prep in this match up so it irrelevant.

Not to mention the issue ignored Logan’s, Matt’s and Peter’s powers and won’t be happing in this encounter. Also Logan was not knocked out and was still standing, so Punisher did not take out anything.

Originally posted by Sado22
he's also downed him without preperation. twice.

Originally posted by Sado22
like when his eye grew right back and he was too dumb to figure out that it wasn't normal. and without knowledge doesn't mean that he didn't rely on it. you're not even making any sense.

~Sado

Your response has nothing to do with what you had quoted.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Also he done quite fine when his healing factor has been taken from him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Because Logan average portayial has not been such in decades, he actually extremely calm combatant. He does not lose his temper in battle and he not that reckless and even less so when his healing factor has been taken from him.

Punisher is not any more calm or less reckless then Logan.
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinevsdaredeviloa3.jpg

you've lost all credibility...WOlverine is calm? hahahah yeah that's the first thing I think when I hear 'Wolverine'...Calm!

and yeah Punisher is more reckless...after all he jumps into machine gun fire and eats rockets for breakfast 😆

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Yup now I know you don’t read Wolverine.
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinevsdaredeviloa3.jpg

ahhh, good old Battlehammer, if only I got a nickle everytime you accused someone of that...I'd be filthy rich!

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you've lost all credibility...WOlverine is calm? hahahah yeah that's the first thing I think when I hear 'Wolverine'...Calm!

and yeah Punisher is more reckless...after all he jumps into machine gun fire and eats rockets for breakfast 😆

sorry, but if you can take machine gun fire and rockets it far from reckless to allow one self to be hit by them.

Thats like saying supermans reckless to let bullets hit him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this. He can and is a very calm combatant, he does not simply fly off the handle as soon as a fight beggins. Hell this was shown in his current run with DP. It took DP all day before he was able to get Logan mad enough to actually fight to kill him.

sorry, but if you can take machine gun fire and rockets it far from reckless to allow one self to be hit by them.

Thats like saying supermans reckless to let bullets hit him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this.

I've read enough Wolverine to judge him. He does not strike me as a 'calm' fella.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
ahhh, good old Battlehammer, if only I got a nickle everytime you accused someone of that...I'd be filthy rich!

were did you get that quote from.'

I did not say that and then give a scann in any of my fallowing posts in this thread.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
unlike superman, Logan's HF is taxed by injuries...so the more it has to work, the weaker he gets. So it is reckless to jump into machine gun fire if he could avoid it.