Originally posted by Mindset
The Spectre/Michael fight links didn't work.
Here, these should.
Spectre V3 Isssue#10
Quick fight with Micheal.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7788/spectre19931012if7.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8840/spectre19931013bj3.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/5512/spectre19931016al6.jpg
Originally posted by Sirius77
As is the speed force or the phantom zone... so is the rock of eternity.It still counts, and a dimension full of myx's will beat that team. The third dimension is not needed.
Yes, but there are not invading the 5th dimension, so why would the imps even be involved in this fight?
Originally posted by Sirius77
Are you blind?Did you not see the scan where Dream of the endless helped myx?
Or any of the others?
I could post the scans of Zatanna and dr. fate at John Constantines bi-day party if could find them.
Did you miss the part where specter fought michael, and then asked his brother for help?
Dr. Fate didn't go to Constantine's birthday. (issue 63, during Ennis' fabulous run).
Swamp Thing and the Phantom Stranger did. That issue also features the single greatest use of both the Holland mind's powers, and the best ever appearance of Zatanna in any comic book, ever.
Oh, and Constantine pisses on the Phantom Stranger's shoes. I freaking love Garth Ennis' Hellblazer run.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Dr. Fate didn't go to Constantine's birthday. (issue 63, during Ennis' fabulous run).Swamp Thing and the Phantom Stranger did. That issue also features the single greatest use of both the Holland mind's powers, and the best ever appearance of Zatanna in any comic book, ever.
My bad. I thought he was there... Oh well.
Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, but there are not invading the 5th dimension, so why would the imps even be involved in this fight?
Why does Myx constantly annoy superman every 93 days? Because hes bored...
Why does bat-mite enter the third dimension?
Why is Jakeem thunder granting a kids every wish?
Why did the queen of the fifth dimension MARRY into the superman line?
These things happen, and they WILL notiuce it if someone tried to take over their franchise, and they wont be happy...
All of these beings have nigh-infinite powers, and nothing to do with them. Imagine how intersted they would be if there were beings that they could actually have fun battling?
Originally posted by Sirius77
Why does Myx constantly annoy superman every 93 days? Because hes bored...Why does bat-mite enter the third dimension?
Why is Jakeem thunder granting a kids every wish?
Why did the queen of the fifth dimension MARRY into the superman line?
These things happen, and they WILL notiuce it if someone tried to take over their franchise, and they wont be happy...
All of these beings have nigh-infinite powers, and nothing to do with them. Imagine how intersted they would be if there were beings that they could actually have fun battling?
Mxy ran anyway and shouted to close the door forever when he ran from either Superman Prime or an unshown threat in Countdown. If the Imps saw something that could potential beat them, they would avoid the fight.
By the way, that Spectre/Micheal scan... doesn't that kind of show that the main DCU and Vertigo are even more split? Micheal was either dead or imprisoned by Sandolath when that issue took place...
The Lucifer continuity Micheal never guarded the gates of heaven. So wouldn't that imply it was some sort of DC continuity Micheal? Like a different version?
Which would raise the question of course- is the Phantom Stranger and the Spectre that shows up in Vertigo books the same PS or Spectre that shows up in DCU books?
Originally posted by Sirius77
Why does Myx constantly annoy superman every 93 days? Because hes bored...Why does bat-mite enter the third dimension?
Why is Jakeem thunder granting a kids every wish?
Why did the queen of the fifth dimension MARRY into the superman line?
These things happen, and they WILL notiuce it if someone tried to take over their franchise, and they wont be happy...
All of these beings have nigh-infinite powers, and nothing to do with them. Imagine how intersted they would be if there were beings that they could actually have fun battling?
As tjcoady mentioned, the 5th dimension is closed off, so why would the imps interfere?
Originally posted by MindsetWhat the heck nobody can use the Imps because the Dimension is sealed off? The thread starter made no such stipulations anybody in the Dc continuity can be used unless they thread starter says something like "Oh nobody that wouldn't usually come to the Universes defence can be used" so Mxy and other Imps can be used here.
As tjcoady mentioned, the 5th dimension is closed off, so why would the imps interfere?
Originally posted by iceman24567
What the heck nobody can use the Imps because the Dimension is sealed off? The thread starter made no such stipulations anybody in the Dc continuity can be used unless they thread starter says something like "Oh nobody that wouldn't usually come to the Universes defence can be used" so Mxy and other Imps can be used here.
Oh, I was assuming this was taking into account how the DC universe is currently operating, not just pick someone from DC.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Mxy ran anyway and shouted to close the door forever when he ran from either Superman Prime or an unshown threat in Countdown. If the Imps saw something that could potential beat them, they would avoid the fight.
If myx regularly takes on the specter, I doubt that an entire dimension would be scared of that team.
Theyre powerful, but not THAT powerful.
And it said the DC. If you want to get technical, most of the people on the team are already beaten. Or dead.
Originally posted by tjcoady
By the way, that Spectre/Micheal scan... doesn't that kind of show that the main DCU and Vertigo are even more split? Micheal was either dead or imprisoned by Sandolath when that issue took place...
Funny you should say that.
Spectre's in search of God and has a quick chat with Lucifer.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/...19975721yo1.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/...19975722so1.jpg
He is on a beach. This is directly after he renounced hell. Notice how he doesnt have any wings either. At this point his series had not even begun. This is "Specter vol 3 # 57.
This is Spectre V3 Isssue#10
Quick fight with Micheal.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931012if7.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931013bj3.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/...19931016al6.jpg
Same volume, but 10 comes before 57...
Originally posted by tjcoady
The Lucifer continuity Micheal never guarded the gates of heaven. So wouldn't that imply it was some sort of DC continuity Micheal? Like a different version?
No, it would just imply that there was no one powerful enough to face Specter but him. So the host sent him. Its not an uncommon occurance in the series. Hell, they asked his brother to help when the titans stole the power of the presence when Michael died.
The host sends big angels for big problems.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Which would raise the question of course- is the Phantom Stranger and the Spectre that shows up in Vertigo books the same PS or Spectre that shows up in DCU books?
It would be a huge copyright infringement if they werent... 😬
You saw how they lost conner because of two decendants of his creator.
I doubt that DC or Vertigo would make that mistake so carelessly...
Originally posted by MindsetNah i don't think it operates like that unless the thread starter makes it so. We go by how the universe generally operates. See if we were to say Dc Universe vs Marvel we wouldn't exclude Thanos because he is dead he would be included.
Oh, I was assuming this was taking into account how the DC universe is currently operating, not just pick someone from DC.
Originally posted by Sirius77
If myx regularly takes on the specter, I doubt that an entire dimension would be scared of that team.Theyre powerful, but not THAT powerful.
And it said the DC. If you want to get technical, most of the people on the team are already beaten. Or dead.
Funny you should say that.
Spectre's in search of God and has a quick chat with Lucifer.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/...19975721yo1.jpg
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/...19975722so1.jpgHe is on a beach. This is directly after he renounced hell. Notice how he doesnt have any wings either. At this point his series had not even begun. This is "Specter vol 3 # 57.
This is Spectre V3 Isssue#10
Quick fight with Micheal.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931012if7.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/...19931013bj3.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/...19931016al6.jpgSame volume, but 10 comes before 57...
No, it would just imply that there was no one powerful enough to face Specter but him. So the host sent him. Its not an uncommon occurance in the series. Hell, they asked his brother to help when the titans stole the power of the presence when Michael died.
The host sends big angels for big problems.
It would be a huge copyright infringement if they werent... 😬
You saw how they lost conner because of two decendants of his creator.
I doubt that DC or Vertigo would make that mistake so carelessly...
I've never read the Spectre series- but if he talked to Lucifer right before he went and talked to Micheal, then Micheal would have been chained by Sandolath. Micheal pretty much straight from imprisonment to his re-birth death, to another death. I guess there would be a little bit of time in between for him to show up in the Spectre though.
As to the last thing, I see what you're saying, but I meant different characters in the same way that Frank Miller's Batman is not the same Batman as regular DCU Batman- like that there's a Vertigo universe Phantom Stranger and mainstream Phantom Stranger.
Originally posted by tjcoady
I've never read the Spectre series- but if he talked to Lucifer right before he went and talked to Micheal, then Micheal would have been chained by Sandolath. Micheal pretty much straight from imprisonment to his re-birth death, to another death. I guess there would be a little bit of time in between for him to show up in the Spectre though.
Not true. This was during the sandman series. He hadnt even gotten his own series yet.
Thats why he was on the beach. The issue was picking up where the sandman left off.
Originally posted by tjcoady
As to the last thing, I see what you're saying, but I meant different characters in the same way that Frank Miller's Batman is not the same Batman as regular DCU Batman- like that there's a Vertigo universe Phantom Stranger and mainstream Phantom Stranger.
It wasnt an alternate universe because it was in the main DC universe.
And there isnt a phantom stranger for Vertigo anymore than there is one for marvel...
The ps that you see in Vertigo is in fact the actual ps.
Originally posted by Sirius77
Not true. This was during the sandman series. He hadnt even gotten his own series yet.Thats why he was on the beach. The issue was picking up where the sandman left off.
It wasnt an alternate universe because it was in the main DC universe.
And there isnt a phantom stranger for Vertigo anymore than there is one for marvel...
The ps that you see in Vertigo is in fact the actual ps.
Micheal was held prison by Sandalophan from Lucifer's rebellion (in like, pre-history), until Lucifer freed him, according the Lucifer series.
So even if it was before Carey wrote Lucifer's series, that either says that a). it's not the Vertigo Micheal or b). Micheal's whereabouts got retconned by Mike Carey during Lucifer.
And while I agree with you that much of Vertigo is canon for the mainstream DCU (especially the books that got switched to Vertigo when they were reprinted: Morrison's Animal Man and Doom Patrol and Moore's Swamp Thing)... Fundamentally, characters like Zatanna, Black Orchid, Baron Winter, Dr. Occult, the Phantom Stranger, the Swamp Thing, and even aspects of Ennis' Hitman cannot exist within the DCU universe as they do now if their Vertigo stories are not canon. I mean, Dream's meet the JLA twice (once in their international phase, and once during the current phase). Jason Blood, Baron Winter, Tommy Monaghan, Swamp Thing, Kyle Rayner, Mento of the Doom Patrol, Guy Gardner and Batman have all hung out with John Constantine (who also went to Superman's funeral). Supergirl and Lobo have been to Destiny's Garden, and Destiny's book (or a simulacrum) is the in the possession of the Challengers of the unknown. Tim Hunter's hung out with the Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, Captain Marvel, Timothy Raven and a bunch of others. Lucifer has sat atop the Source Wall and met the Spectre. The current Doom Patrol has memories of their existence during Morrison's run (but interestingly enough, not Pollack's, which immediately followed).
but there are just as many cases when Vertigo series' are not canon:
Animal Man's post-Morrison series, when he becomes a bestial animal shaman-god,
The trans-sexual and period obsessed Pollack run on Doom Patrol.
Tim Hunter's journey's in books of magic.
Shade the Changing Man being a member of the original Suicide Squad.
Elaine taking over for the Presence (because if Lucifer IS canon, then why is there still a heaven or hell?)
and hundreds of hundreds of others.
Normally, I like to just see each series on its own merits, but this is kind of fun. Maybe we should have a thread devoted just to distinguishing what in Vertigo is canon in the main DCU. It could get kind of interesting.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Micheal was held prison by Sandalophan from Lucifer's rebellion (in like, pre-history), until Lucifer freed him, according the Lucifer series.So even if it was before Carey wrote Lucifer's series, that either says that a). it's not the Vertigo Micheal or b). Micheal's whereabouts got retconned by Mike Carey during Lucifer.
Either way, he met Michael in issue 57 and his brother in issue 10. Michael could have been freed by then. Thats 47 issues.
Originally posted by tjcoady
And while I agree with you that much of Vertigo is canon for the mainstream DCU (especially the books that got switched to Vertigo when they were reprinted: Morrison's Animal Man and Doom Patrol and Moore's Swamp Thing)... Fundamentally, characters like Zatanna, Black Orchid, Baron Winter, Dr. Occult, the Phantom Stranger, the Swamp Thing, and even aspects of Ennis' Hitman cannot exist within the DCU universe as they do now if their Vertigo stories are not canon. I mean, Dream's meet the JLA twice (once in their international phase, and once during the current phase). Jason Blood, Baron Winter, Tommy Monaghan, Swamp Thing, Kyle Rayner, Mento of the Doom Patrol, Guy Gardner and Batman have all hung out with John Constantine (who also went to Superman's funeral). Supergirl and Lobo have been to Destiny's Garden, and Destiny's book (or a simulacrum) is the in the possession of the Challengers of the unknown. Tim Hunter's hung out with the Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, Captain Marvel, Timothy Raven and a bunch of others. Lucifer has sat atop the Source Wall and met the Spectre. The current Doom Patrol has memories of their existence during Morrison's run (but interestingly enough, not Pollack's, which immediately followed)
Interesting. I didnt even remember all of those. Nice examp.
Originally posted by tjcoady
but there are just as many cases when Vertigo series' are not canon:Animal Man's post-Morrison series, when he becomes a bestial animal shaman-god,
The trans-sexual and period obsessed Pollack run on Doom Patrol.
Tim Hunter's journey's in books of magic.
Shade the Changing Man being a member of the original Suicide Squad.
Originally posted by tjcoady
Elaine taking over for the Presence (because if Lucifer IS canon, then why is there still a heaven or hell?)
It was stated that human beings put themselves there. So whether or not elaine wants it or not, that dimension will be used as such if people believe hell still exists. Thats Vertigos theory.
And heaven was never destroyed. The silver city was damaged. But it was still Elaines base of operations...
Originally posted by tjcoady
and hundreds of hundreds of others.Normally, I like to just see each series on its own merits, but this is kind of fun. Maybe we should have a thread devoted just to distinguishing what in Vertigo is canon in the main DCU. It could get kind of interesting.
That would be interesting. lol. 😄
edit.
