Originally posted by harri
i generally don't think he really does have one greatest enemy, just 3.
because it can't really be seen whos his best enemy just look how close the poll is.
Who is the 3rd? I mean Doc Oc is a genius and gets Pete in tight spots again and again. I do not know if I would give him Spiderman's worst enemy. You could also argue Morlun, but he has only been around a few issues and I do not think he will be back though. However, I think he was probably Spidey's most physically strong opponent.
I guess you could argue Kraven too, but in my mind he loses to the Green Goblin and Venom.
Then there is the Hobgoblin which is just a lesser version of the Green Goblin. He brings a different attitude and flare, but the Green Goblin still trumps him.
There was a time when I thought Carnage would be Spiderman's greatest Enemy, but that did not seem to happen. Basically I think creators took Venom and tried to create a villain that was even stronger, crazier and deadlier. In some aspects they did succeed, but Venom is more memorable and holds a larger fan-base than carnage.
Originally posted by Silent Guardianyes, but i think ock is his 3rd, i mean he has all the attributes to be his only greatest enemy, but Venom and green goblin are just ahead in my opinion. I actually prefered hobgoblin ( Roderick Kingsley) than green goblin but green goblin will always be ahead the hobgoblin i my opinion.
Who is the 3rd? I mean Doc Oc is a genius and gets Pete in tight spots again and again. I do not know if I would give him Spiderman's worst enemy. You could also argue Morlun, but he has only been around a few issues and I do not think he will be back though. However, I think he was probably Spidey's most physically strong opponent.I guess you could argue Kraven too, but in my mind he loses to the Green Goblin and Venom.
Then there is the Hobgoblin which is just a lesser version of the Green Goblin. He brings a different attitude and flare, but the Green Goblin still trumps him.
There was a time when I thought Carnage would be Spiderman's greatest Enemy, but that did not seem to happen. Basically I think creators took Venom and tried to create a villain that was even stronger, crazier and deadlier. In some aspects they did succeed, but Venom is more memorable and holds a larger fan-base than carnage.
Originally posted by harri
yes, but i think ock is his 3rd, i mean he has all the attributes to be his only greatest enemy, but Venom and green goblin are just ahead in my opinion. I actually prefered hobgoblin ( Roderick Kingsley) than green goblin but green goblin will always be ahead the hobgoblin i my opinion.
I will give you that Do Oc definitely has the potential to be number 3, and maybe he is. But aside from a handful of impressive feats, I do not think he has done as much, at least as much as Venom or Green Goblin. But I guess you could put him at number 3. Now I do like the Hobgoblin, but honestly I feel he is like the green goblin with a different costume, but he is not as insane and has not scarred Peter.
Originally posted by Silent Guardianyes, and i don't think he was there to scarre peter, just to fill in for the grand return of green goblin.
I will give you that Do Oc definitely has the potential to be number 3, and maybe he is. But aside from a handful of impressive feats, I do not think he has done as much, at least as much as Venom or Green Goblin. But I guess you could put him at number 3. Now I do like the Hobgoblin, but honestly I feel he is like the green goblin with a different costume, but he is not as insane and has not scarred Peter.
Originally posted by Doc Ock
Doc Ock and Green Goblin deserve top spot. They've both seriously hurt and been involved in the deaths of people close to Spidey.Venom is just a stalker who's never had any kind of impact like that on Spidey's life.
Who has Doc Oc killed that was close to Spider-man?
Originally posted by namorsubby
green goblin. the lizard
The lizard is a good villain and tough opponent, but I see him more as a tragic villain because Conners is a good man and friend to Spider-man, and the Lizzard has never done anything truly awful to Spiderman
Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Why isn't Sandman on here?
Sand man is tough, and a good villain, but has never done anything as diabolical as Doc Oc, Venom, or the Green Goblin
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Himself...
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
How about this? Doc Ock is more menacing and Venom is more deadly. Good enough?
I don't really agree with that since Ock has done more to Spidey personally, and is a greater danger to the public than Venom is.
As has already been mentioned in other threads, people confuse Venom's staus as a villain with his popularity. Popularity does not equal the best. The movie Titanic made an insane amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever. I personally can't stand it myself.
Also some people think that just because Venom knows who Spider-Man really is that makes him better. Again not true. Especially when you consider the fact that Venom has never put that knowledge to any good use. He's just a glorified stalker with a chip on his shoulder over nothing.
It reminds of the line from Batman Begins: "It's not who I am underneath. But what I do that defines me". Venom has not done anything really bad to Spidey. Not like the Green Goblin or Dr Octopus have. That's why I believe they are a cut above Venom.
Originally posted by Keehar
I don't really agree with that since Ock has done more to Spidey personally, and is a greater danger to the public than Venom is.As has already been mentioned in other threads, people confuse Venom's staus as a villain with his popularity. Popularity does not equal the best. The movie Titanic made an insane amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever. I personally can't stand it myself.
Also some people think that just because Venom knows who Spider-Man really is that makes him better. Again not true. Especially when you consider the fact that Venom has never put that knowledge to any good use. He's just a glorified stalker with a chip on his shoulder over nothing.It reminds of the line from Batman Begins: "It's not who I am underneath. But what I do that defines me". Venom has not done anything really bad to Spidey. Not like the Green Goblin or Dr Octopus have. That's why I believe they are a cut above Venom.
Okay, you don't have to start spewing out the whole, "Just because Venom's popular doesn't mean he's a villian of quality," arguement.
Just because Venom doesn't kidnap dear ol' Aunt May or Mary Jane everytime you turn around to manipulate poor ol' Peter doesn't mean Venom isn't a villian of quality. Venom is obviously no mastermind, and this is what I, personally, like about Venom. Venom is more direct and immediate, and he his practically the only villian that has continually overwhelmed Spider-Man in this way, which may be the reason why Venom is so "popular."
You like to throw around that he's a stalker with a chip on his shoulder... well... who the hell isn't a stalker and doesn't have a chip on their shoulder in Spidey's rogue gallery? Norman Osborn spent years confusing and tormenting Peter with the entire "clones dilemma" before finally making his appearance. I wonder exactly how much stalking and chipping Norman had to do in order to pull that off. Of course some of you will say that it was brilliantly done, and I would agree with you. However, once Spidey got through all the torment, clones, bombs, and gliders, he defeated Norman almost as easily as Venom has beaten Spidey in their several encounters.
Venom is unique because he takes a huge turn away from your more classical villians:
1. He's no mastermind
2. He doesn't have to be a mastermind
3. He has Spidey's powers and more
4. He can lay a major smack down on Spidey
That is why Venom is popular, and you Goby and Ocky fanboys can't stand it, plane and simple.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Okay, you don't have to start spewing out the whole, "Just because Venom's popular doesn't mean he's a villian of quality," arguement.
I wasn't. I was giving you reasons for my opinion.
Just because Venom doesn't kidnap dear ol' Aunt May or Mary Jane everytime you turn around to manipulate poor ol' Peter doesn't mean Venom isn't a villian of quality. Venom is obviously no mastermind, and this is what I, personally, like about Venom. Venom is more direct and immediate, and he his practically the only villian that has continually overwhelmed Spider-Man in this way, which may be the reason why Venom is so "popular."
Spidey has been overwhelmed in every way before by many villains, including Goblin and Ock. Norman has dulled Peter's spider sense, and kicked his ass. Ock has whupped Spidey's ass severely many times before. Spidey often had to rely on different strategies other than brute strength in order to beat them. Just like with Venom. So it's not unique to Venom.
You like to throw around that he's a stalker with a chip on his shoulder... well... who the hell isn't a stalker and doesn't have a chip on their shoulder in Spidey's rogue gallery?
Doc Ock, Electro, Scorpion, Mysterio, Carnage, Kraven, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc etc etc. None of these guys are devoted to stalking anyone because they have some grudge against them.
Norman Osborn spent years confusing and tormenting Peter with the entire "clones dilemma" before finally making his appearance. I wonder exactly how much stalking and chipping Norman had to do in order to pull that off. Of course some of you will say that it was brilliantly done, and I would agree with you. However, once Spidey got through all the torment, clones, bombs, and gliders, he defeated Norman almost as easily as Venom has beaten him in their several encounters.
Nonsense. Norman has progressed. He's not simply defeated by Spider-Man. He's currently running the Thunderbolts at the moment, and had them go to New York to hunt down Spidey.
Fresh, original, exciting, and a thousand times better than Anti-Venom and all the other lame-o stuff they've done with the symbiote characters.
Venom is unique because he takes a huge turn away from your more classical villians:
1. He's no mastermind
Ummm, neither is Electro, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc.
2. He doesn't have to be a mastermind
Looking at his track record of nothing achieved against Spidey other than brawling, I'd say he does.
3. He has Spidey's powers and more
Alot of good that's done him.
4. He can lay a major smack down on Spidey
So can many of Spidey's enemies. Morlun can kill him and eat his eye if the mood takes him.
That is why Venom is popular, and you Goby and Ocky fanboys can't stand it, plane and simple.
Afraid not. Nothing about Venom bothers me. I see the villain for what he is. So did Sam Raimi. It's some of the Venom fans, like yourself, who are in denial.
When it comes to the crunch, the only defence offered for Venom is his fighting skills. And that lends credence to what Raimi said, his popularity stems from him simply being an evil version of Spider-Man. Scratch the surface and there's nothing there but an angry meathead with a chip on his shoulder.
Originally posted by Keehar
Spidey has been overwhelmed in every way before by many villains, including Goblin and Ock. Norman has dulled Peter's spider sense, and kicked his ass. Ock has whupped Spidey's ass severely many times before. Spidey often had to rely on different strategies other than brute strength in order to beat them. Just like with Venom. So it's not unique to Venom.
I'm not denying that other villians have defeated Spider-Man before, but it seems that Venom is the only one that has the advantage in almost every encounter.
Doc Ock, Electro, Scorpion, Mysterio, Carnage, Kraven, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc etc etc. None of these guys are devoted to stalking anyone because they have some grudge against them.
Where were you when the Sinister Six and the Sinister Twelve was conjured up?
Nonsense. Norman has progressed. He's not simply defeated by Spider-Man. He's currently running the Thunderbolts at the moment, and had them go to New York to hunt down Spidey.
Pshh, Spidey still hands Norman his ass.
Fresh, original, exciting, and a thousand times better than Anti-Venom and all the other lame-o stuff they've done with the symbiote characters.
It is fresh, original, and exciting, and throwing Anti-Venom into the mix makes it even more interesting.
Ummm, neither is Electro, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc.
No, they're not, just manipulated by masterminds... unlike Venom.
Looking at his track record of nothing achieved against Spidey other than brawling, I'd say he does.
Oh, please, Venom has done his fair share of outwitting Spidey before. Apparently you're not looking too hard.
Alot of good that's done him.
It has done him plenty of good infact.
So can many of Spidey's enemies. Morlun can kill him and eat his eye if the mood takes him.
Yeah, Morlun's pretty deadly too. Venom has just done it more.
Afraid not. Nothing about Venom bothers me. I see the villain for what he is. So did Sam Raimi. It's some of the Venom fans, like yourself, who are in denial.When it comes to the crunch, the only defence offered for Venom is his fighting skills. And that lends credence to what Raimi said, his popularity stems from him simply being an evil version of Spider-Man. Scratch the surface and there's nothing there but an angry meathead with a chip on his shoulder.
If you say so...
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
I'm not denying that other villians have defeated Spider-Man before, but it seems that Venom is the only one that has the advantage in almost every encounter.
Which is why the Venom stories got stale and they started screwing around with Venom's motivations, making him anti-hero etc. His whole schtick was very one note. That's why they made a slew of symbiote related characters.
They totally changed the dynamic tin order to try and keep a one trick pony character fresh.
Where were you when the Sinister Six and the Sinister Twelve was conjured up?
What? They were not stalkers. Ock formed the first Sinister Six because Spidey was becoming a nuissance getting in the way of their personal schemes.
The Sinister Twelve was formed by Norman for the same reason. They didn't stalk Spidey. They were not after him because they believed he ruined their lives or hurt them personally.
Not to mention these teams were only formed for that purpose ONCE!
Pshh, Spidey still hands Norman his ass.
Good! It's give and take with their relationship. Variety. Not one note like with Venom.
It is fresh, original, and exciting, and throwing Anti-Venom into the mix makes it even more interesting.
What has Anti-Venom brought to the proceedings that has not been done before? What is so interesting?
No, they're not, just manipulated by masterminds... unlike Venom.
What's the difference? You said Venom was a far cry from the classic villains because he's not a mastermind. Half of the classics are not masterminds.
Why are you trying to change the point?
Oh, please, Venom has done his fair share of outwitting Spidey before. Apparently you're not looking too hard.
Outwitting in what way? Surprising him in a fight? Appearing out of nowhere undetected?
It has done him plenty of good infact.
Really? List me some of these victories and benefits that it's achieved him.
Yeah, Morlun's pretty deadly too. Venom has just done it more.
Done what more? Killed Spidey and ate his eyeball? HA!
If you say so
No need to get touchy. There's no reason to feel threatened or insulted. It doesn't detract from your love of the character.