State Ruling Ciminalizes Home Schooling

Started by Adam_PoE11 pages

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, I think we are using validity in different ways. I agree with your statement, however, all was initially talking about whether there is objective "truth" to the claim. ie: Can we prove objectively that one is better than the other. Since one claims that in the afterlife there will be salvation for those who reject science, and there is no way to test that, logically we must conclude that we are agnostic about whether or not a single religious doctrine is the best way to raise a child.

I admitted I know how silly this line of reasoning is, and it is mostly just a linguistic trick, but it is a logical problem. I've gone out of my way to say I agree with you about the benefit, but benefit is not a proof of truth. I'd prefer benefit given the strict unknowability of truth, and the idea that any deity wouldn't appreciate science class is laughable.

The argument being presented is that one is more measurably beneficial than the other. If the argument being presented is the one that you propose, then you would be correct.

UPDATE

"Judge Dismisses Home-Schooling Credentials Case" L.A. Times

A controversial legal ruling that outlawed most forms of home schooling in California will face greater scrutiny because the underlying family court case was dismissed earlier this week.

News of the decision broke Friday as thousands of members of the Christian Home Educators Assn. of California met in Long Beach, where they opened with: "We pray God you deliver home-schoolers in California from the mouth of the lion. . . . Change the hearts of these judges, we pray."

The issue remains in legal limbo. On Thursday, the family court judge terminated its jurisdiction over two of the eight children of Phillip and Mary Long, who were accused of mistreating some of their children. All of the children are currently or had been enrolled at Sunland Christian School, where they would occasionally take tests, but they were educated in their Lynwood home by their mother.

Lawyers appointed to represent the two children had requested that the court require them to physically attend a public or private school where adults could monitor their well-being. The family court disagreed, but the children's lawyers appealed.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal ruled in February that Sunland officials' occasional monitoring of the Longs' home schooling was insufficient to qualify as being enrolled in a private school.

Because Mary Long does not have a teaching credential, the family has violated state laws, the ruling said.

The Longs, the Sunland school and others appealed, and the appellate panel agreed to revisit the ruling. That panel heard arguments last month and is expected to rule by late summer on whether parents can legally educate their children without a credential.

Home-school advocates said Thursday's decision makes the appellate discussions moot.

"It should mean the whole thing goes away," said Michael Farris, chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Assn. "I'm very optimistic for the long haul. I don't see how in the world this case could be upheld. That [dismissal] absolutely bolsters my optimism greatly."

Edward Steinman, a law professor at Santa Clara University, said he does not believe that the family court dismissal undermines the ruling, but it could provide easy political cover if the appellate court wants to get out of the spotlight.

"I don't think it moots the case. I think it's two separate issues," he said. "The family court issue is the one that triggered [the ruling], but family court is not the one that made" the ruling.

"It should have no effect," he said. "But it became a political football, and the [appellate] court may use this to say 'let's just punt.' "

Part of the reason the matter is up for debate is because, unlike at least 30 other states, California does not specifically address home schooling. Under the state education code, students must be enrolled in a public or private school or can be taught at home by a credentialed tutor.

There was a public outcry over the appellate court ruling, which could affect an estimated 166,000 California children who are home-schooled. The state's Republican governor and Democratic superintendent of public instruction and attorney general all agreed that the judges erred.

Phillip Long said in an interview Friday that the judge "saw things for what they were" and that the case has been an ordeal for his wife. He said he hopes that the ruling this week kills the broader case.

"We hope that it will, in essence, make it go away, for lack of better words, for the benefit of everyone," he said.

Long said his attorney, Gary Kreep, along with attorneys from home-school organizations, plan to notify the appellate court of the termination soon and petition it to moot its ruling.

Some convention attendees remained wary, saying they fear ongoing attempts to regulate home schooling.

Susan and Greg Wheeler of Escondido are almost done home schooling -- their oldest is in college and their other two children are in ninth and 12th grades. But they fear for younger families.

"I'm concerned that the privilege of doing this is in jeopardy," said Greg Wheeler, 50. "We are the primary influence in [our children's] lives, rather than school officials who might not have the same values."

The Wheelers took a break after perusing aisles filled with hundreds of vendors, including "Cornerstone Curriculum: A Biblical World View Education" and Bob Jones University.

"We're here to get energized and inspired," Greg Wheeler said.

Part support group, part curriculum mart, part devotional, the two-day gathering is the group's 25th annual meeting. It began Friday morning with a session titled "Why Home Schooling Will Change the World" and will close this evening with "Dinosaurs, Genesis and the Gospel."

The California Department of Education allows home schooling as long as parents file paperwork with the state establishing themselves as small private schools, hire credentialed tutors or enroll their children in independent study programs run by charter or private schools or public school districts while still teaching at home.

California does little to enforce those provisions, and some families decline to follow them, making those children virtually impossible to locate. Home-schoolers and government officials have largely accepted this murky arrangement.

"We don't want legislation," said J. Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Assn. "We like it the way it is."

What does this have to do with gays again?

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
What does this have to do with gays again?

Anything with Adam has to do with gays, he cant be normal, everything has to be gay.

He would make the entire Star Wars franchise gay if he could, just because he thinks being straight is abnormal.

Originally posted by Sable
Anything with Adam has to do with gays, he can't just be normal, everything has to be gay.

He would make the entire Star Wars franchise gay if he could, just because he thinks being straight is abnormal.

This thread is a great example of your triggering

Originally posted by Devil King
I wonder where the rights of parents to own their children ends and the rights of the children to own themselves begins?

i miss this guy 🙁

Devil King was a good guy. Always liked him.

Originally posted by Sable
This thread is a great example of your triggering

Your post is a great example of you being obsessed with me. Hence, the "Obsessed much?" animated GIF. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by Devil King
I wonder where the rights of parents to own their children ends and the rights of the children to own themselves begins?

Probably at 17, then again, yea why not kick them out at 12 and give them parent of the year award👆 (sarcasm)

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Your post is a great example of you being obsessed with me. Hence, the "Obsessed much?" animated GIF. Thanks for playing.

You asked for an example, I provided one.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i miss this guy 🙁
Originally posted by BackFire
Devil King was a good guy. Always liked him.

He is my ex-boyfriend, so you have him to thank for my presence here. Apparently, I got KMC in the break-up.

😱

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
He is my ex-boyfriend, so you have him to thank for my presence here. Apparently, I got KMC in the break-up.

😱

can't you guys share custody? 🙁

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
He is my ex-boyfriend, so you have him to thank for my presence here. Apparently, I got KMC in the break-up.

😱

I like you too, Adam.

Do you know how he's doing these days? Have you kept in touch at all?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
He is my ex-boyfriend, so you have him to thank for my presence here. Apparently, I got KMC in the break-up.

😱


With quotes like this:

Originally posted by Devil King
I wonder where the rights of parents to own their children ends and the rights of the children to own themselves begins?

I dont know why you are bragging.

Originally posted by Sable
With quotes like this:

I dont know why you are bragging.

do you need to always be the center of attention in real life, or is this just an internet thing?

I was the one who bumped the thread to have a convo with Adam. You jumped in to hijack.

Pot/kettle

sorry to "hijack" your thread-necromancy trolling. think you can let me off with just a warning, sir?

😂

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
sorry to "hijack" your thread-necromancy trolling. think you can let me off with just a warning, sir?

Indeed Sable, what exactly was the point of bumping this thread?