EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament: Round 2-2; id369 vs Psycho Gundam

Lets back track a bit an assets what the current situation is.

The Rapture - Currently, invisible and intangible.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9853/xman047page11image0001mu1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/xmaninvisible.jpg

The battlefield is rigged full of psi projections
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/884/xma44p16nj7.jpg

So what am I trying to pull off here? Simply I will attempt to hold him movements permanently locking him in a form of suspended animation. [ Cable #30].
If need be, I will attempt to hold him down even more, like it was done to Abomination.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5668/xman02014zp2.jpg

I know the full extent of both Juggernaut and the infinity gems. And like wise the point of the TK freeze and astral projections play its role keep him occupied, for me to take of his helm. I calmly say so, because even classic Juggs has had his helm taken off with his invulnerability on by the X-Men. I don’t recall exactly who, IRRC it was Arc Angel and some one else, who pulled it off.

Juggs is invulnerable to most forms of physical damage. But it does not mean, that his helm cant be taken off. In fact his invulnerability is still on with his helm on. Yet no one is stupid enough to walk up to him and try, unless you have the means to do it from a distance or avoiding physical harm. Thankfully I am covered by both accounts.

Originally posted by id369
Lets back track a bit an assets what the current situation is.

The Rapture - Currently, invisible and intangible.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9853/xman047page11image0001mu1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/xmaninvisible.jpg

The battlefield is rigged full of psi projections
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/884/xma44p16nj7.jpg

So what am I trying to pull off here? Simply I will attempt to hold him movements permanently locking him in a form of suspended animation. [ Cable #30].
If need be, I will attempt to hold him down even more, like it was done to Abomination.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5668/xman02014zp2.jpg

I know the full extent of both Juggernaut and the infinity gems. And like wise the point of the TK freeze and astral projections play its role keep him occupied, for me to take of his helm. I calmly say so, because even classic Juggs has had his helm taken off with his invulnerability on by the X-Men. I don’t recall exactly who, IRRC it was Arc Angel and some one else, who pulled it off.

Juggs is invulnerable to most forms of physical damage. But it does not mean, that his helm cant be taken off. In fact his invulnerability is still on with his helm on. Yet no one is stupid enough to walk up to him and try, unless you have the means to do it from a distance or avoiding physical harm. Thankfully I am covered by both accounts.

Just so I am clear about your plan; let me see if I have this right.

1. Nate Grey is going to be invisible and intangible.
2. Nate Grey is going to create psi decoys to confuse Juggernaut.
3. Nate Grey is then going to use his TK to hold down the Juggernaut and keep him from moving.
4. Then when he is not moving and held down via TK, you're going to keep him from moving for 10 minutes and win via immobilization.

5. Or when he is held down via TK, Nate is going to use TK to remove the helmet, then the secondary skullcap underneath, and then attack Juggernaut's mind.

Hope I have that right. I Just wanted to briefly summarize your battle strategy in my head.

-Evangel94 🐰

Originally posted by Evangel94
Just so I am clear about your plan; let me see if I have this right.

1. Nate Grey is going to be invisible and intangible.
2. Nate Grey is going to create psi decoys to confuse Juggernaut.

This is in effect at the start of the match. My last actions during my prep. So yes pretty clear.

Originally posted by Evangel94

3. Nate Grey is then going to use his TK to hold down the Juggernaut and keep him from moving.
4. Then when he is not moving and held down via TK, you're going to keep him from moving for 10 minutes and win via immobilization.

#4 - Contingency plan, if the TK freeze is not suffice lets see if I can hold him down applying considerably effort. At this point I want to point out that my TK is enough to through One Hitter Quitters, and Shatter the moon.

Note: (Yes that is a theorized power level, Prior to Nate Merging with Alternate Nate. Remember the Current Shaman Nate, who is like Nate Grey 2.0 with crap level of more control. His theorized level of power, is said to be enough to shatter planets).

Originally posted by Evangel94

5. Or when he is held down via TK, Nate is going to use TK to remove the helmet, then the secondary skullcap underneath, and then attack Juggernaut's mind.

Hope I have that right. I Just wanted to briefly summarize your battle strategy in my head.

-Evangel94 🐰

Vary accurate, at this point I want to mention that I Nate is known to be strong mult-tasker. A better example would be Cable, if you followed my prep I have gained all of his experience. And since I am his superior, I should be able to pull of everything he has no questions asked.

ID369 gets my vote

since your most powerful attack was nate tangible:
"moons don't hit back"

Do we vote now? If so then my vote goes to Id369. with that intagability I don't see a way for Juggernaut to hit Nate. but being a psi he is perfectly set up to be able to take juggernaut out.

Voting for ID

Voting for id. His prep is extremely strange but it hardly seems like he would need those weird powers to pull off the mindrape he has planned.

Vote for id.

Gundam, you kinda went the other direction from your last match...a few scans, but minus any sort of explanation of how they'd fit into your larger plan, or even in some cases it was missing an explanation of what we were being shown. Blair had to clear up the one scan for me, because I didn't know what I was looking at, and there were a couple others like that too.

Also, this:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
all professional fighting sports have a must engage rule and points get added to the more aggressive combatant.

And at least one of your scans was from the completed Infinity Gauntlet, not just the power gem (the planet-busting thing, iirc), but it was shown out of context.

...

Id had the fortunate distinction of not needing to convince me one way or another about his uber-mesh. I didn't put a ton of thought into it after reading through it, but that's mainly because competent tk and tp are two crucial ingredients to taking out Juggs efficiently. He has those at base levels, so the mesh, to me, was a moot point for this match. Props on altering some from your last match though. It's a clever strategy if nothing else, and if it works it would make your win easier.

since nobody will actually fight me, I also vote for ID369.

I didn't receive any votes in the other match either, so i get the hint.

If I may, I have a question if someone can answer it; can Telekinesis go through Juggernaut's forcefield?

Originally posted by Evangel94
If I may, I have a question if someone can answer it; can Telekinesis go through Juggernaut's forcefield?

Telepathy and Telekinesis have been shown to work on him when his forcefield is inactive. Telepathy has actually worked on him on quite a few occasions when his forcefield is inactive (Even when he's wearing both his Skull Cap + Helmet).

However on the very rare occasion when he does activate his forcefield, it can stop TK stone cold. Not sure about telepathy because it's never been tested but presumably it can do that too since it stopped telekinesis.

Note - Juggernaut has only activated his forcefield on a handful(I can literally count them on one hand) of occasions throughout his 40+ year comic book career.

Telekinesis (Forcefield) Active

Uncanny X-Men #32
(May 1967)
(Writer: Roy Thomas, Artist: Werner Roth)

Telekinesis (Forcefield) Inactive

Uncanny X-Men #46
(July 1968)
(Writer: Gary Friedrich, Artist: Werner Roth)

Originally posted by Evangel94
If I may, I have a question if someone can answer it; can Telekinesis go through Juggernaut's forcefield?

Maybe not (not sure about the limitations) but it works both ways, because Juggs would need to let someone through his forcefield in order to attack them at close range.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
since nobody will actually fight me, I also vote for ID369.

I didn't receive any votes in the other match either, so i get the hint.

Don't hold such a grudge. It puts people off, and I mean personally, not as it pertains to tourneys.

People legitimately voted against you because they thought your opponent presented a better argument. It's not personal, and it's not a "hint," but merely a logical appraisal of the match.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Maybe not (not sure about the limitations) but it works both ways, because Juggs would need to let someone through his forcefield in order to attack them at close range.

If Juggernaut had an inclination on how to use the Space Gem then that may not factor in.
But I agree with the general consensus, Psycho G does have a powerful amalgam that could very well have won this match if used right but id369 presented his case better even though I was a little bit confused with some of his prep/strategy.

id for reasons others have listed.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
since nobody will actually fight me, I also vote for ID369.

I didn't receive any votes in the other match either, so i get the hint.

Question:

On what basis are we supposed to vote on?

1.) Do we vote based on just the information to presented to us and analyze the debate as if we're seeing the evidence for the first time?

or

2.) Or do we include our own knowledge when voting? eg. Participant may not have mentioned Factor B(May not know about about Factor B) but you know of Factor B. Factor B could have one the Participant the match.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Question:

On what basis are we supposed to vote on?

1.) Do we vote based on just the information to presented to us and analyze the debate as if we're seeing the evidence for the first time?

or

2.) Or do we include our own knowledge when voting? eg. Participant may not have mentioned Factor B but you know of Factor B. Factor B could have one the Participant the match.

Evangel made a rule/suggestion to "assume the minimum" about a character, such as the last match where Doom had 36 hours of prep but he didn't turn in a writeup...we were allowed to extrapolate for ourselves the "minimum" of what Doom might do with that time, which is still quite formidable.

So we can use our own knowledge, and go beyond what the participants say in the debates. Most voters tend to put less importance on that than in-thread debating and plans, but it should be a consideration.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Evangel made a rule/suggestion to "assume the minimum" about a character, such as the last match where Doom had 36 hours of prep but he didn't turn in a writeup...we were allowed to extrapolate for ourselves the "minimum" of what Doom might do with that time, which is still quite formidable.

So we can use our own knowledge, and go beyond what the participants say in the debates. Most voters tend to put less importance on that than in-thread debating and plans, but it should be a consideration.

that's actually a good rule. i like the way evangel dealt with that. it's always a problem for judges to keep their own thoughts seperate from what is shown in a match. 🙂

I'd like to remind everyone who still wants to vote, that you must vote before 12:30 PM Central Standard Time.

final statement, this also goes with the other match I "lost".
all I wanted was juggy to activate the force field for this tournament.
since this is a tournament you would expect him to try to win so logically the field goes up without hesitation. now, it's undebatable if the power gem backs the field but not really sure if he would need that anyway.

in essence, it's an absolute defense and everybody and their grandma knows he doesn't tire or weaken so......how do you win again?