The Incredible Hulk

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) It was meant in humour. Should have remembered you need humour drawn in crayola.

B) You haven't exactly been chipping in with anything of value either have you? I, as a fan of the comics, have been discussing it with interest. You've been saying how shitty the comics are because you dislike Hulk, rather than just...leaving the thread. Don't try to bait, then moan when you fall for the fish, dear boy.

C) The ones who read the comics and have followed the character for a greater number of years, not someone who enjoyed the T.V. show, doesn't read the comics, and has no appreciation for the character other than seeing him fight.

That would be the equivelent of making Batman movies all flashy and about gadgetry, zany characters and hunky males to appeal to people who aren't Batman fans. Like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, two movies you, as a Batman fan, didn't like, correct? I, as a Hulk fan, want to avoid a Hulk movie in the style of those movies.

-AC

A) Yeah, uh-huh...humor...you funny man. Great way to try and sneak out with the hand caught inside the cookie jar. Your little remark of "important fans" was just sooo identical to the SW fans of three years ago whom were trying to imply that a "real fan" of SW franchise must like Episode III. Which is flawed, stupid, and extremely absurd form of discussion.

B) I happen to like Hulk comics. I don't happen to like the newer Hulk comics because in truth...they're shit to me. Bait? you're the one bringing in Batman, Wonder Woman and Flash...which have NOTHING to do with this discussion. Who is baiting who? YOU!

C) The ones who read the comics for years and followed the character aren't all going to agree that these movies made about the Hulk are good. That is a job for the fanboys to say.

You pulling the same gimmick debate like in other threads. Someone says something about your favorites and you don't agree....you retaliate with picking on something the other person likes. Your gimmicks have grown extremely old AC. Yes, I now await your infamous Coldplay and U2 remarks. Which I would be quite surprise if you don't raise them in your response.

Like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, two movies you, as a Batman fan, didn't like, correct?

Incorrect! I happen to like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin for their silliness, campy, and absurdities. Just like the original Batman tv series of the 60's. However, I make a clear distinction between movie goer and fan. As a movie goer...those two films are godawful and terrible. As a fan...they're still bad! but are so absurd I find them comical.

See, I can judge a film as two opposites...as a fan and as movie goer. I never confuse the two. You on the other hand are going with "no matter how bad it turns....I'm going to defend it!"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) It was meant in humour. Should have remembered you need humour drawn in crayola.

B) You haven't exactly been chipping in with anything of value either have you? I, as a fan of the comics, have been discussing it with interest. You've been saying how shitty the comics are because you dislike Hulk, rather than just...leaving the thread. Don't try to bait, then moan when you fall for the fish, dear boy.

C) The ones who read the comics and have followed the character for a greater number of years, not someone who enjoyed the T.V. show, doesn't read the comics, and has no appreciation for the character other than seeing him fight.

That would be the equivelent of making Batman movies all flashy and about gadgetry, zany characters and hunky males to appeal to people who aren't Batman fans. Like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, two movies you, as a Batman fan, didn't like, correct? I, as a Hulk fan, want to avoid a Hulk movie in the style of those movies.

-AC

AWESOME! LOL!!

I have a gut feeling that this will be the Hulk movie, to end all Hulk movies, yeah I know it's early, but the more I read up on it, the better it seems like it will be.

To all you whiny and bitchy doubters, may Hulk crush your heads.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
A) Yeah, uh-huh...humor...you funny man. Great way to try and sneak out with the hand caught inside the cookie jar. Your little remark of "important fans" was just sooo identical to the SW fans of three years ago whom were trying to imply that a "real fan" of SW franchise must like Episode III. Which is flawed, stupid, and extremely absurd.

You don't actually get to decide what I meant, I'm sorry to inform you of that. The "better" part was in humour.

The important part, admittedly, was semi-humour. I'm not trying to sneak OUT of anything, I'm just tiring of you feeling like you can take a chunk of text, interpret it however you desire, and then spend pages arguing against an intent that didn't ever exist.

Hulk fans are more important because it's a Hulk movie. Tim Story didn't consider F4 fans the most important audience, look what happened to those movies. I am not saying that die-hards are the only aim, that isn't the case and I don't expect it to be. Every director would want to make it accessible to new watchers and old fans, but by implication, you go to see The Incredible Hulk because you have some interest in the character. Someone who has no interest in it wouldn't, shouldn't go. Therefore, by even MAKING the movie, the fans are the more important audience.

I'm making nothing LIKE that sort of claim. I'm not sitting here saying "If you are a Hulk fan you have to like the movie.", am I? No. Still no progress in the area of grasping points I see.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
B) I happen to like Hulk comics. I don't happen to like the newer Hulk comics because in truth...they're shit to me. Bait? you're the one bringing in Batman, Wonder Woman and Flash...which have NOTHING to do with this discussion. Who is baiting who? YOU!

Let's review the stats;

You've posted nine times in this thread, including this one. Five of them were needless "I think the new comics are shit."-esque comments, one of which was "This movie WILL be shit...I can sense it.". If you care that little, why remain here to just rip on Hulk? I said what I did about characters you like (I actually like Batman too) because you were clearly doing it to people here.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
C) The ones who read the comics for years and followed the character aren't all going to agree that these movies made about the Hulk are good. That is a job for the fanboys to say.

Where did I ever say that? I said people who have enjoyed and appreciated the character for years, for more than just smashing things, are the ones this movie SHOULD be aimed at, and are more of an important audience than folks like Tired Hiker who don't WANT to read the comics, don't WANT to see plot, and just want action.

YOU are the one assuming I feel everyone has to agree it's good. I don't. My only point was that if you're going to see The Hulk, don't ***** about having to see sub-plot, cos that is there for us, the ones who have genuine interest in the character. If you want action, go see action. Don't request a film with heavy fan-base interest be compromised because you can't handle story.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You pulling the same debate like in other threads. Someone says something about your favorites and you don't agree....you retaliate with picking on something the other person likes. Your gimmicks have grown extremely old AC. Yes, I now await your infamous Coldplay and U2 remarks. Which I would be quite surprise if you don't raise them in your response.

I like Batman, what can I diss Batman about? Nothing, I like Batman. I was doing that to prove a point. You criticised me for not saying anything interesting, didn't you? What have you added? Five posts of needless negativity and a few musings about Razzies.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Incorrect! I happen to like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin for their silliness, campy, and absurdities. Just like the original Batman tv series of the 60's. However, I make a clear distinction between movie goer and fan. As a movie goer...those two films are godawful and terrible. As a fan...they're still bad! but are so absurd I find them comical.

Then to each their own, you enjoy them and that's up to you. Let me ask you a question as you are a Batman fan, ok? Batman Forever, Batman & Robin...OR...Batman Begins? As a Batman fan, speaking as a fan, which is your favourite?

Do you not see why, as a fan, I do not wish to see a character bastardised for the sake of the masses who just want to see him smash? If you were fine with it, that's you. I would not be.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
See, I can judge a film as two opposites...as a fan and as movie goer. I never confuse the two. You on the other hand are going with "no matter how bad it turns....I'm going to defend it!"

What are you on about? I critiqued Ang Lee's version for not being good enough, but being good at what it set out to do. I liked it, but it wasn't great, and I'm not blind enough to defend it where it obviously faltered.

Why do you insist on putting points into my posts that are never, ever there? My point is this:

Hulk fans, fans of the comics, to whatever degree (Sensible die hard to irrational fanboy, right? Whatever), are more important as an audience than someone who just wants action. What about that is so hard to understand? Here's the part you need to pay attention to:

I believe that if you, like Tired Hiker, do not want to sit through plot, then do not go to a comic book movie, because any smart director will do his or her best to stay as true to the comic books as realistically possible. The Hulk is about more than just destruction, and if he cannot handle that, it's selfish of him to suggest the film be bastardised into two hours of sheer mindless action for the benefit of people who don't even have as great an interest as comic fans. Just go see another mindless action flick, and let a director of The Incredible Hulk be more attentive to details that will satisfy the more dedicate audience.

That's essentially like saying "I'm pleased they're doing a movie adaptation of The Diary of Anne Frank, but let's just cut to the bit where there's war.". It'd be stupid.

Is this too complex? Because as always, I detect that I will have to battle my way through your intentional ignorance of my points...again.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You've posted nine times in this thread, including this one. Five of them were needless "I think the new comics are shit."-esque comments, one of which was "This movie WILL be shit...I can sense it.". If you care that little, why remain here to just rip on Hulk? I said what I did about characters you like (I actually like Batman too) because you were clearly doing it to people here.

-AC

You're just babbling like a complete ignorant now! This is why:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Batman is well shit though.

Boring, for people with no imagination.

-AC

Not a SINGLE one of my opinions on the Hulk movies and the New comic books was an attack on Hulk fans (fanboys are on the other hand a different story) Not once I used a personal attack to any of the fans. You on the other hand act like 8 year child that throws tantrums whenever some one have an opinion on something you like. You do this in every forum of KMC. Whether is music, comics, movies, etc...As I mention earlier your gimmicks are older than the pyramids. This is the reason why I don't engage in ANY kind of discussions with you anymore. You're full of it and a complete waste of time.

Here I was.... mind my own business making my comments and there you were trying to look for ways to provoke me. You failed. The only time you got my attention was when you made that ludicrous comment. Which you're trying to disguise as simple joke. That's a crock of BS!

I like Batman, what can I diss Batman about? Nothing, I like Batman.

No one cares if you like Batman! No one cares if you hate Batman! And I certainly don't care what you think of the character! Unlike you I can live with other people's opinions. I don't have to throw tantrums when someone says something critical about my favorite character. Not my business and certainly not going to get work out.

Because as always, I detect that I will have to battle my way through your intentional ignorance of my points...again.

You detect wrong! Just because you see me posting in the same thread as you do...it doesn't mean I'm looking forward to talking with you. I have no interests and don't waste my time. I would really appreciate you take that into consideration next time you see me in the same thread with you.

************************************************************

With that shenanigans out of the way....

Hulk's new comics blow chunks....I still think this upcoming Hulk movie will be shit until I'm prove wrong....and that's that!

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You're just babbling like a complete ignorant now! This is why:

What was wrong with the whole massive chunks of my post that you skipped? Too relevant and correct? Oh...it's a waste of time? Yeah, anyway. Let me just reply to the entirely off-topic and irrelevant post you just dedicated the time to writing, to me, a waste of your time.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Not a SINGLE one of my opinions on the Hulk movies and the New comic books was an attack on Hulk fans (fanboys are on the other hand a different story) Not once I used a personal attack to any of the fans. You on the other hand act like 8 year child that throws tantrums whenever some one have an opinion on something you like. You do this in every forum of KMC. Whether is music, comics, movies, etc...As I mention earlier your gimmicks are older than the pyramids. This is the reason why I don't engage in ANY kind of discussions with you anymore. You're full of it and a complete waste of time.

The difference between you and I is that I can actually differentiate between things that are and are not meant seriously. Even you, people like you, with the absolute worse interpretive and perceptive debate skills, can tell that it was a rash, generalising statement that wasn't serious. I don't believe Batman is shit, nor his general fanbase unimaginative and boring, but you obviously wanted to take it seriously because you're like that.

Waste of time? How does THAT work? You've just taken the time to reply, but none of it was to any of the huge parts of my post actually relevant to the thread. All you did was pick out a couple of lines, an entirely separate post and then just balls up the interpretation in trademark WrathfulDwarf style. It's an appropriate name, WrathfulDwarf. Because nobody comes up short with such wrath than you do, when it comes to debates. Hence why you avoided every single part of my post that was, funnily enough, on topic.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Here I was.... mind my own business making my comments and there you were trying to look for ways to provoke me. You failed. The only time you got my attention was when you made that ludicrous comment. Which you're trying to disguise as simple joke. That's a crock of BS!

Disguised? No, it was. You obviously need things spelled out, and to save face, insist that you are right in interpreting someone else's words. Even people who dislike my style of posting could quite easily see that it was an unfounded, generalistic claim that I obviously do not believe, much less agree with.

But...you're WrathfulDwarf, and as I said previously, I predicted this. You chose to accuse me of not posting anything of relevance despite my contributions to this thread being of greater number and relevant content than yours. Another fact you chose to avoid my address of in my previous post.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one cares if you like Batman! No one cares if you hate Batman! And I certainly don't care what you think of the character! Unlike you I can live with other people's opinions. I don't have to throw tantrums when someone says something critical about my favorite character. Not my business and certainly not going to get work out.

Yeah, you don't throw tantrums...like now. Here you are, not throwing a tantrum about something you didn't mess up, not wasting time on replying to me; an alleged waste of time.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You detect wrong! Just because you see me posting in the same thread as you do...it doesn't mean I'm looking forward to talking with you. I have no interests and don't waste my time.

You realise how silly you are making yourself look by saying this, right? As you typed that huge, bitchfest of a reply to me, you do realise the contradiction in doing that, and saying you "Don't waste (Your) time" speaking to me, right?

Either admit you can't resist or actually resist. Don't do one and then claim you always do the other. You didn't reply to any of my post regarding the film and the ideas that sparked this discussion in the first place, cos you love to whine. Maybe it's you being annoyed at yourself because your desire to brush me aside in debates does not coincide with your actual ability in debates, but whatever it is, you do need to sort it out.

-AC

AC caught up in more bickering? Is that a pattern or just coincidence?

Way to insult and taunt a moderator, Alpha.

*Hands pom poms out* There you go.

I am AFRAID I'm all out of oversized novelty lips, so you may have to just stick to cheering and exaggerated instigation (That I would assume W.D. is smarter than to fall for) as opposed to ass kissing today. I'd offer you some comedic half-vision glasses, capable of letting you see only the side you desire, but it appears you've already indulged yourself in those. Good though, aren't they? Such a fun item.

How about that Hulk, eh? That's what I'm interested in discussing, I've handled my business with W.D. and I assume he won't waste any more time on a "waste of time" as he claims I am. So we can now move on to discussing The Hulk. This is depending on how you handle the inevitable compulsion you will both feel to reply, which you are responsible for, as I am now going to attempt to put this behind and move the thread onward.

What aspects of the comics do people (Preferably comics fans) feel is utterly necessary for the movie, or not necessary? Realistically, within the two or so hours this movie will last, what aspects of The Hulk's character are essential to express?

We've seen Ang Lee accurately portray one side and forget the other, so doing the complete opposite isn't the greatest way to go, so what would be the balance?

Not this:

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
*Hands pom poms out* There you go.

I am AFRAID I'm all out of oversized novelty lips, so you may have to just stick to cheering and exaggerated instigation (That I would assume W.D. is smarter than to fall for) as opposed to ass kissing today. I'd offer you some comedic half-vision glasses, capable of letting you see only the side you desire, but it appears you've already indulged yourself in those. Good though, aren't they? Such a fun item.

How about that Hulk, eh? That's what I'm interested in discussing, I've handled my business with W.D. and I assume he won't waste any more time on a "waste of time" as he claims I am. So we can now move on to discussing The Hulk. This is depending on how you handle the inevitable compulsion you will both feel to reply, which you are responsible for, as I am now going to attempt to put this behind and move the thread onward.

What aspects of the comics do people (Preferably comics fans) feel is utterly necessary for the movie, or not necessary? Realistically, within the two or so hours this movie will last, what aspects of The Hulk's character are essential to express?

We've seen Ang Lee accurately portray one side and forget the other, so doing the complete opposite isn't the greatest way to go, so what would be the balance?

Not this:

-AC

I smell I rebellion. Way to stick it to 'the man'. 😐

Ok, we can work with some of those words;

"The man", Hulk is indeed the man. So, let's progress that idea into a discussion about, not just him, but his movie!

"What aspects of the comics do people (Preferably comics fans) feel is utterly necessary for the movie, or not necessary? Realistically, within the two or so hours this movie will last, what aspects of The Hulk's character are essential to express?

We've seen Ang Lee accurately portray one side and forget the other, so doing the complete opposite isn't the greatest way to go, so what would be the balance?".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait, wait.

Why go see a comic book movie then? When making a comic book movie, people will evidently try to stay true to the comic book. Why go see it, then moan that you have to see it?

They will more cater to fans of the comics than fans of something smashing stuff up. Go see Rambo for that. If you wanna see The Hulk, you are obliged to sit through the things we, the more important fans, want to see. We're not necessarily better, we're just more important and, let's face it, better.

-AC

Why make a Hulk film then? Why not just read the comic? Special effects have improved so much in the past few decades which is why we get so many comic book movies these days. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Hulk comic readers enjoy reading Hulk because they are fans of smashing stuff up, that is why they'll go see the movie as well. As far as being better or not, whatever you are on about I don't really care to discuss that point, it doesn't matter to me. As far as a Hulk film, yes I want a story, I just don't want 90% of the film to be bogged down with a boring way to explain a back-story or the set up via dialogue and no action. I've read many comic books and they can achieve telling a good story through the action, or by keeping the story interesting with clever dialogue and interesting characters when there is no action. I'm sure the Hulk comic has all that, so it's up to the filmmakers to translate it to screen in a way that will capture the feel of the comic in or around two hours of screen time. I just don't want that translation to be boring, otherwise, like I said, why not just read the comic?. It's a comic book movie. Tell the story, but get to the action quick, and make it fun.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
Why make a Hulk film then? Why not just read the comic? Special effects have improved so much in the past few decades which is why we get so many comic book movies these days. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Hulk comic readers enjoy reading Hulk because they are fans of smashing stuff up, that is why they'll go see the movie as well.

Hulk very rarely "smashes stuff up", if truth be told. The Incredible Hulk was never some kind of reckless, mindless action comic. It's exciting, and of course there's the action side, and I guess that it does have great potential for a movie, but my point is;

You're not going to make it if you're not a fan. If we are to assume the director is a fan, and we know Norton is a fan, then we must assume that they will try their very best to cater to the true fans (Because yes, true fans exist, it's not some kind of non-existent fanboy claim) first. Sure, I'm not expecting it to be 100%, not-a-hair-out-of-place accuracy. I recognise that there has to be a degree of "How do we entice folks who aren't true/die-hard/huge fans, but know the character enough to come see it?". So I recognise and even accept the idea that "smashing stuff up" is to be included.

I just don't feel that you should expect the bastardisation of a much loved character just because you want mindless action. If it's specific Hulk action you want, you are therefore obliged to sit through the plot, which SHOULD be there for those who appreciate the character more.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
As far as being better or not, whatever you are on about I don't really care to discuss that point, it doesn't matter to me. As far as a Hulk film, yes I want a story, I just don't want 90% of the film to be bogged down with a boring way to explain a back-story or the set up via dialogue and no action. I've read many comic books and they can achieve telling a good story through the action, or by keeping the story interesting with clever dialogue and interesting characters when there is no action. I'm sure the Hulk comic has all that, so it's up to the filmmakers to translate it to screen in a way that will capture the feel of the comic in or around two hours of screen time. I just don't want that translation to be boring, otherwise, like I said, why not just read the comic?. It's a comic book movie. Tell the story, but get to the action quick, and make it fun.

The "better" thing was a joke, there are good and bad fans in every fanbase.

Well that's fair enough, I was under the impression you wanted to do away with the story completely or entirely compromise it. The Hulk's story in the comics, as well as compelling, is exciting. If your point is that the story SHOULD be there, but should be told in an interesting and exciting way, then I entirely agree.

-AC

I did say just show me Hulk thrash, which was an exaggeration on my part. But compared to Ang Lee's version, I do want to see more of Hulk thrashing. To me, that was the best part of the movie. However, I do want the story to be told, and I want good action.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
I did say just show me Hulk thrash, which was an exaggeration on my part. But compared to Ang Lee's version, I do want to see more of Hulk thrashing. To me, that was the best part of the movie. However, I do want the story to be told, and I want good action.

If you read up on what Norton has done to the screenplay, you get the aspect that he indeed captured (or at least tried to) that balance. The story starts off with Banner already as the Hulk, so that 30-40 minutes Ang Lee spent in the beginning of the film to explain why the Hulk exist, Norton will do in a matter of minutes through multiple flashbacks, which is ingenious, imo. He also taking the time to show the connection between Banner, Betty Ross and Hulk, which is another important facet of the Hulk storyline.

My cousin, who is working on this movie, thinks it's going to be shit because they're giving Ed Norton too much creative control, and he doesn't know what he's doing.

I heard Edward Norton did a cameo in Ben-Hur as Jesus Christ.

Nah, they used Jesus Christ to try accurately representing Norton, but he wasn't great enough, sadly. Then Norton showed up on set and said "Jesus...I am your father.".

Who knew?

-AC

I did.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you read up on what Norton has done to the screenplay, you get the aspect that he indeed captured (or at least tried to) that balance. The story starts off with Banner already as the Hulk, so that 30-40 minutes Ang Lee spent in the beginning of the film to explain why the Hulk exist, Norton will do in a matter of minutes through multiple flashbacks, which is ingenious, imo. He also taking the time to show the connection between Banner, Betty Ross and Hulk, which is another important facet of the Hulk storyline.

Originally posted by BackFire
My cousin, who is working on this movie, thinks it's going to be shit because they're giving Ed Norton too much creative control, and he doesn't know what he's doing.