Originally posted by BattlehammerBut you used the point of healing factor to try to show something. The healing factor is useless in avoiding the pressure points then. As Hulk is pretty comparable in healing factors...
Hulk not wolverine and ues they do not effect him which was made evident when echo tried a pressure point attack and it did nothing to wolverine.If you were able to tax out wolverines healing factor it could work.
cosigned.
I personally see wolverine winnign via Heal factor.
I agree with you about spiderman. He has a great deal of trouble with skilled MA and is this match up he vsing some of the best there are.
Would it?
Perhaps.
Ya. Iron Fist was able to stalemate him as well a couple times I believe.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
But you used the point of healing factor to try to show something. The healing factor is useless in avoiding the pressure points then. As Hulk is pretty comparable in healing factors...
Dare Devil issue 54.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Would it?Perhaps.
Ya. Iron Fist was able to stalemate him as well a couple times I believe.
Yup IF was able to stalemate spiderman before
Originally posted by BattlehammerIt still heals the same, and about as fast... does it not? Is there something Wolverine's healing factor does that Hulk's doesn't? And don't say it, because the conversation is about that.
Wolverine is not Hulk Yes they both have healig factors, but if something effects hulk that does not mean it effects wolverine and vices versa. They do not have the same healing factors nor are they the same in design. Logan's is a mutant power, while Hulks is a form of cancer.Dare Devil issue 54.
OK, you got me. I'm not going to look for it...
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Wolverine is not Hulk Yes they both have healig factors, but if something effects hulk that does not mean it effects wolverine and vices versa. They do not have the same healing factors nor are they the same in design. Logan's is a mutant power, while Hulks is a form of cancer.Dare Devil issue 54.
that's a big pile of bullcrap. Hulk's HF is greater than Logans, if he is susceptible to nerve shots and pressure points, then Logan certainly is.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
It still heals the same, and about as fast... does it not? Is there something Wolverine's healing factor does that Hulk's doesn't? And don't say it, because the conversation is about that.
Plus, wouldn't Hulk be harder to damage with nerve strikes and the like, theoretically?
Maybe it not as sufficient and easier to trick.
I have no idea. Your using ABC logic. Becuases A and B both of the ability to heal then if C can causes a pressure point to effect A then that most mean B can also be effected by a pressure point. This does not work in the comic book world. ABC logic is just not good reasoning in comics. It even worses if the idnividuals derives there powers from different sources.
We know pressure points do not work on wolverine becuases we have seen them fail on pannel.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
OK, you got me. I'm not going to look for it...
lol
Originally posted by BattlehammerPerhaps I am. But you used a very simple sentence that could be taken as anyone with a healing factor could avoid pressure points.
Maybe it not as sufficient and easier to trick.I have no idea. Your using ABC logic. Becuases A and B both of the ability to heal then if C can causes a pressure point to effect A then that most mean B can also be effected by a pressure point. This does not work in the comic book world. ABC logic is just not good reasoning in comics. It even worses if the idnividuals derives there powers from different sources.
We know pressure points do not work on wolverine becuases we have seen them fail on pannel.
lol
Or, you could have just said that. However, I'm still going to need to see this scan sometime... because Echo isn't the greatest ever.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Perhaps I am. But you used a very simple sentence that could be taken as anyone with a healing factor could avoid pressure points.
Which isn't true... so either Wolverine's healing factor is super special (which is unlikely, as they all really work the same... just different levels of how fast they work/how powerful they are)... or Wolverine's build is special. Because I can't see any healing factor undoing nerve damage the moment it happens.Or, you could have just said that. However, I'm still going to need to see this scan sometime... because Echo isn't the greatest ever.
ALso how do you know Hulk being effected by a pressure point is not simply pis?
Logan could have a special biuld, but I leaning towards healing factor.
Why coud it not heal nerve damage as soon as it made? They have healed organ damage at such rates. Hell bullets have been healed instantly which would causes great amount of nerve damage superior to anything a pressure point could reproduces.
don't have a scanner. Look up the issue. Not sure what the scanns matter she tried a pressure point it was inefffective.
who cares if she not the greatest? SHe still extremely skilled and has the ability to mimic others fighting styles and moves. She still easily skilled enough to correctly reproduces a nerve strike/ pressure point
Originally posted by BattlehammerBecause they heal things on the body? Muscle damage, skin damage, nerve damage, bone damage, etc. What's different is the rate that it happens in.
How do you know they all work the same? When was that stated?ALso how do you know Hulk being effected by a pressure point is not simply pis?
Logan could have a special biuld, but I leaning towards healing factor.
Why coud it not heal nerve damage as soon as it made? They have healed organ damage at such rates. Hell bullets have been healed instantly which would causes great amount of nerve damage superior to anything a pressure point could reproduces.
don't have a scanner. Look up the issue. Not sure what the scanns matter she tried a pressure point it was inefffective.
who cares if she not the greatest? SHe still extremely skilled and has the ability to mimic others fighting styles and moves. She still easily skilled enough to correctly reproduces a nerve strike/ pressure point
Because I believe it's happened before.
Like lungs, and such... because everytime I've seen them damaged, it took some time.
So, everything was healed, or the skin healed? Because if this happens to Wolverine... then why is he ever damaged, besides his healing factor being taxed (which is a paradox in itself)?
Uh... no.
Because Batman can do better ones it seems.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Because they heal things on the body? Muscle damage, skin damage, nerve damage, bone damage, etc. What's different is the rate that it happens in.
Would you care to explain the differences?
How do you know that one is not more suffiecient then the other?
How d you know that one does not heal certain parts of the body first while another heals another area of the body first.
not to mention that Hulk and Wolverine got there healing factor from different things. One is a cancer while the other is a born power. Also there healing factors don't even run off the same power sources.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Because I believe it's happened before.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Like lungs, and such... because everytime I've seen them damaged, it took some time..
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So, everything was healed, or the skin healed?
every thing. Logan healing factor starts with nerve damage first. The skinn is the last thing healed.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Uh... no.Because Batman can do better ones it seems.
If one does not work, there no reason to assume another will.
Also the prue speculation that batman knows "better ones"
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yes many more then you likly read.You really have never read his fights with wolverine of capt have you?
His strength is all but useless vs wolverine which was shown in spiderman vs wolverine one shot.
Too fast? Both wolverine and capt have comparable speed feats to spidermans. If spiderman is faster it by such a small digree it would not be any factor in this match up.
Oh and by the way Capt and Wolverine had both shown to have no trouble keeping up and loanding hits on spiderman.
Lol spiderman level of skill is not were near theses guys. Theses guys are all many times better fighters then he is. Spiderman also extremely predictable and vs top tier fighters like theses guys is a very bad thing.
SS is good, but at best it only semi equalizes his lack of training and skill that the other combatants have in spades.
You try to shut me down, but that won't I happen. I know a lot about Comic characters. Wolverine and Cap's speed is nowhere near Spidey's Level. And I never said that Spider-Man was a better fighter But he is more unorthodox than the rest of them for sure. He has to deal with far more dangerous people than what he's up against in this battle. Venom, Rhino, Carnage, Sand Man, and Dr Octopus. Do i need to say more? Spidey will take the victory hands down.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
You try to shut me down, but that won't I happen. I know a lot about Comic characters.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
Wolverine and Cap's speed is nowhere near Spidey's Level.
really becuases there fights with spiderman and feats say other wises.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
And I never said that Spider-Man was a better fighter But he is more unorthodox than the rest of them for sure.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
He has to deal with far more dangerous people than what he's up against in this battle. Venom, Rhino, Carnage, Sand Man, and Dr Octopus.
capt taken on rhino and done fine.
Both Logan and capt have many rogues far more dangerous then spiderman such as omega red, cyber ect.
sorry, but this does not help your arguement .
Originally posted by thadarknite84
Do i need to say more? Spidey will take the victory hands down.
Originally posted by BattlehammerBecause that's what it seems like. That, and power.
How do you know the only differences is the rate in which they heal things?How do you know that one is not more suffiecient then the other?
How d you know that one does not heal certain parts of the body first while another heals another area of the body first.
not to mention that Hulk and Wolverine got there healing factor from different things. One is a cancer while the other is a born power. Also there healing factors don't even run off the same power sources.
Shouldn't it just heal everything from the ground up first?
Even so, how does that effect the efficiency of them? Wouldn't that be like comparing natural strength, to a earned strength, even if they are equal?
Originally posted by BattlehammerThinking.
really when?
Originally posted by BattlehammerWe've seen different things it seems.
really becuases ive seen them damage and they were healed in seconds.
Originally posted by BattlehammerHmm... sounds sexy.
every thing. Logan healing factor starts with nerve damage first. The skinn is the last thing healed.
Originally posted by BattlehammerDifferent areas of the body have different effects. Hell read up on the dim mak just to get a general idea of this sort of stuff, and how stuff can differ. Too complex to explain at the moment.
If one does not work, there no reason to assume another will.Also the prue speculation that batman knows "better ones"
Batman knows how to stop short term memory transfer (when Lois found out he was Batman... *pinch*).
He also knows the most deadly strikes in all of martial arts. A small picture, but readable (this guy has a magic invulnerability ... so it doesn't take him down):
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc145&image=da4_batshots.jpg
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Because that's what it seems like. That, and power.Shouldn't it just heal everything from the ground up first?
Even so, how does that effect the efficiency of them? Wouldn't that be like comparing natural strength, to a earned strength, even if they are equal?
For example Hulk has been taken out by gas which Logan has shown to be immune to in the same scenerio. Hulk has been effected by pressure points while Logan was not. They clearly don't heal in the same manner.
If there power to heal is not derive by the same sources there no reasons to assume they work in the same manner.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hmm... sounds sexy.
Although I don't recall him healing the same time it happens though (which would be how something seems ineffective, due to healing factors).
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Different areas of the body have different effects. Hell read up on the dim mak just to get a general idea of this sort of stuff, and how stuff can differ. Too complex to explain at the moment.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Batman knows how to stop short term memory transfer (when Lois found out he was Batman... *pinch*).
He also knows the most deadly strikes in all of martial arts. A small picture, but readable (this guy has a magic invulnerability ... so it doesn't take him down):
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc145&image=da4_batshots.jpg
why does this matter? We know for a fact pressure points fail to work against wolverine. It very unlikly to assume batmans will work when another has failled.
Originally posted by Master-Borg
I would say that Spidey is the most unconventional fighter and therefore the LEAST predictable.
also he not all that unconventional he simply relies fully on his powers and uses a lot of acrobatics.........nothing unprodictable there.
also Logan is by far the most unpredictable combatants and is known for his unpredictable ways.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. Due to beeing the least skill he makes his movements easy to prodict just like when punisher shot him. His lack of skill makes him easy to fallow and prodict his next movements.also he not all that unconventional he simply relies fully on his powers and uses a lot of acrobatics.........nothing unprodictable there.
also Logan is by far the most unpredictable combatants and is known for his unpredictable ways.
Logan isn't all that unpredictable at all...he does this every fight:
1) unleashes his claws
2) snarls
3) lunges at enemy
4) attempts to swipe at enemies' head
that's basically Wolverine's attack pattern for EVERY fight.
now, berserk Wolverine is unpredictable, but we're not talking about berserker rage.
Spiderman is unpredictable because he doesn't follow any training or methods, everything he does depends completely on the situation and is created on the go.
Originally posted by Master-Borg
Logan isn't all that unpredictable at all...he does this every fight:1) unleashes his claws
2) snarls
3) lunges at enemy
4) attempts to swipe at enemies' headthat's basically Wolverine's attack pattern for EVERY fight.
now, berserk Wolverine is unpredictable, but we're not talking about berserker rage.
yea I guess nick fury, iron man, capt, cyclopes, xiaver ect or wrong about Logan being unporedictable..............
Originally posted by Master-Borg
Spiderman is unpredictable because he doesn't follow any training or methods, everything he does depends completely on the situation and is created on the go.
Sorry but not fallowing training or methods does not make you unpredictable. Actaully it make you more predictable. Thats why a trained MA fighter would beat the average person. average person when they attack due to being untrained give away there attacks with there body language. A trained fighter knows not to do this and is trained to attack quickly, suddenly and unpredictably.
Any trainded fighter fights according to situation.
I find it funny that you assume that untrained fighter makes one more unpredictable lol. Hell there are styles devoted purely to unrashinal and upredictable movements
Originally posted by BattlehammerWhen was Hulk been taken out by gas? Plus... Hulk still needs to breathe anyway. I don't know how this has to do with healing factors (not saying it doesn't in comics... but it would make no sense).
ANd yet we know for a fact Hulk is abloe to be effected by things Logan does not.For example Hulk has been taken out by gas which Logan has shown to be immune to in the same scenerio. Hulk has been effected by pressure points while Logan was not. They clearly don't heal in the same manner.
If there power to heal is not derive by the same sources there no reasons to assume they work in the same manner.
Hulk was effected by the extremely strong/skilled Captain Marvel chopping at his neck (although I believe there's another occasion)... I do believe this would f*ck up Wolvy as well... srug
While it might be out of Batman's power to do so... it still shows that Hulk's healing factor didn't stop nerve damage there.
Which brings me to my next question...
If it is a heavy nerve strike, as opposed to a pinch, or a tap, would it have an effect on a more 'invunerable' opponent?
Me thinks yes.
Originally posted by BattlehammerAnd this has been attributed to his healing factor?
he beggins to heal as soon as the damage is caused which would prevent the nerve strike from effecting the body. As the move is beeing done the body is all ready healing the damage.
Nevermind... I'm actually going to read the Echo thing to see if I can gain something out of it...
Originally posted by Battlehammer
If it ineffective in one area it no reason to assume that it will be effective in another.
Originally posted by BattlehammerWell, you said it was speculation that Batman knows better ones. He does.
why does this matter? We know for a fact pressure points fail to work against wolverine. It very unlikly to assume batmans will work when another has failled.
I'm just wondering how a potent killing pressure point would effect him. I doubt it would kill him... I'm just wondering what sort of effects it could have on him. I'm not saying it would take him out... I just believe a potent enough strike can effect him.
Take it as you will.
Maybe I'll change my mind after reading the Echo fight though.
