Thor vs Superman

Fantastic argument H1a8!

I agree with a lot of the stuff you said - I like the stuff you said about his bio-matrix being vulnerable to some radiations - that explains about K-Nite too - which also gives out radiation of strange wavelengths.

I don't think the fight would be as easy to pull off as you suggest though.

Supes definitely does have the POTENTIAL to whupp Thor, if he went all out - but he never does. It would be out of character.

Plus, Thor is much older with more experience than Supes. AND his magical powers aren't limited to summoning weather - what about the Godforce he can summon? If Supes tried to stand there and take it like he does with most things, he'd certainly be very injured or even killed.

Both are good characters - both stand for might and right. But though I love Supes and believe he has the power to pull it off if he tried, I think he'd find it tough going...

Best post of the year anyone? This is post is great, it totally shows how DC overpowers its characters compared to marvel. I've always agreed on thor's magic now harming superman. Magic affects superman as much as it affects HUMANS. So the fact that superman gets hurt by Thor's attacks isn't cuz they are magical, it's the sheer power behind them.

The most accurate description is Thor and Superman in JLA Avengers when thor says that none in the 9 worlds can do what superman does, and superman says in his world the dials go up to 11. I really feel as though in these Vs threads that you need to take into account the actual character. It'd be like pitting them in a world other than DC or Marvels. In that case, I'd have to vote for thor....But yea if you compare them straight up, h1a8 has just proven superman is going to win

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman vs. Thor

Many people say that Thor would win.

Here are some of their reasons:

1. Thor has magic and Superman is vulnerable to magic.
2. Thor is a god and Superman is not.
3. Thor has greater fighting skills than Superman.

In this post we’ll see that reasons (1) and (2) are faulty and that reason (3) is false.

Now let's examine them.

Reason 1

This is the most famous reason. The fact Superman is vulnerable to magic doesn’t imply that Superman is vulnerable to all magic. D.C. comic defines magic or magical energy as electromagnetic waves with a certain range of wavelength, as opposed to the more familiar meaning. Superman’s weakness is in the strength of his biomatrix. Its permeability to these wavelengths makes Superman vulnerable to certain radiations. In particular, the magical energy’s electromagnetic or extra-dimensional signature disrupts Superman’s force field. Superman’s vulnerability to magic also varies on the special effect of the magic. This implies that the magic in question depends on its incantation. For instance, if Superman were to get hit by lightning brought about from magical energy then the effect would be the same as him getting hit with regular lightning. This is because the magical energy was used to make real lightning. If the lightning that was made doesn’t have the exact properties of real lightning, then, by definition, it is not lightning but magical energy (a counterfeit). Thor’s hammer Mjolnir, does possess magical energy, and its incantation is the following:

1. Only the worthy may possess Mjolnir.
2. Mjolnir will return to the exact place where it was thrown.
3. Power of simulated flight.
4. Power to summon real thunder, lightning, wind, and rain.
5. Mjolnir is (only by conventional means) indestructible.
6. Power to open extra-dimensional portals.

Note: None of these poses as a weakness for Superman.

Reason 2

This reason is obviously fallacious. As long as Thor is a god and not God (with the capital G) then there is no logical reason why he can’t be defeated by a non-god. A god is defined as: A male being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people. So most super-heroes can possibly be gods (even Superman). The belief, "It is impossible for a non god to defeat a god.", is just plain foolishness.

Reason 3

This reason is logically valid if only it were true. All Marvel trading cards with stats in addition to the Marvel Universe encyclopedias rank Thor’s fighting ability as a 4 (Experienced Fighter), with 7 being the highest. “What?” Thor has thousands of years of fighting experience and yet he isn’t even a master of a single form of combat. Mere mortals such as Captain America and Wolverine outrank Thor’s fighting ability by 3 whole levels. On the other hand, Superman can move faster than the eye can blink. There is no amount of fighting skill that can combat this (not even a fighting rank of 7). One can't dodge or block that is which is too fast for him to react to. Only the JEDI can do this through their use of the Force. Thor has never fought anyone of Superman's speed and reflexes before (Although in the fight between Thor and Gladiator, for some strange reason, Gladiator did not fight at his optimal speed). Also, Superman has received rigorous training in the art of warfare by Mongul himself. Thus by adding in super speed, super reflexes, and vast powers, Superman is a much greater fighter than Thor.

More on Thor and Superman

Superman is extremely much stronger than Thor. Post-crisis (not Pre-crisis) Superman’s maximum bench-press strength is listed as 250,000 tons (when using his telekinetic abilities) while Thor’s maximum press strength is around 100 tons. This is a 2,500% difference. Superman’s maximum speed is 60,000 mph (flight – atmosphere), 300,000,000 mph (flight – space, about half the speed of light), and 30,000 mph (running) while Thor’s maximum speed is on average 200mph (running), 25,000 mph (flight -- atmosphere and space), and infinite (inter-dimensional travel through portals formed by Mjolnir).
Also, Thor is nowhere near invulnerable as Superman is. Thor’s flesh and bone density is about 3 times that of human tissue. His flesh is a consistency 5-7 times stronger than regular Kevlar. This fact is estimated from the facts: (1) Hulk’s skin is a consistency 8-10 times stronger than kevlar and (2) Hulk is always a level above Thor in the durability stat. Now imagine Thor, with this durability level, getting hit by a 225lb. baseball-sized cannonball traveling at 30 times faster than a rifle’s bullet and that has nearly no give or loss of velocity at impact. This is about 30,000 times the momentum of the rifle’s bullet. Superman will literally punch a gapping hole in the Asgardian. Thus there is no way that Thor can withstand Superman’s might.
But on the other hand, direct physical hits by Mjolnir could possibly affect Superman. But this actually depends on whether the magical energy in Mjolnir coincides with D.C.’s definition and if Superman manages to get hit at all. For the sake of argument, let’s assume Mjolnir does have the correct type of magical energy in it and in which, for some strange reason, Superman happens to get hit by it. But after this first hit Superman will now know of Mjolnir properties, and due to Superman’s super speed and reflexes, it would then be nearly impossible for Thor to hit him with it again.
Conclusion

Since those popular three reasons are not valid and the ones I gave are, then hence, Superman wins easily. Also, IMHO, I believe that Superman could possibly defeat the entire Avenger's team. This is because of the fact that Count Nefaria could and the fact that Superman is much stronger, faster (including reflexes), has more powers, and has greater fighting skills than Count Nefaria.

Sources

All statistics on Superman are from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman and http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/superman/superman.html

Facts on Thor come from an official Marvel site: http://marveldirectory.com
(Look up Thor, Asgardian, Beta Ray Bill, and Quicksilver under Individuals in the index).[B]magic real lightning [/B]

That was an awesome arguement. If you are voting for Thor there is no point to come back with just your opinion... show some facts or dont respond.

I hope Cosmic Cube reads that post.

1.Superman's Bio Aura is vulnerable to magic:
Mjolnir can be used to summon lightnings, thunders, storms.
But Thor can fire magical lightnings from his hammer, even without summoning them from the sky.When Thor has hit Superman during AVENGERS VS JLA making him bleeding, the hammer was surrounded by the magical lightning I'm talking of.
When Thor hit's you he can decide if Mjolnir must generate that magical energy, and can decide if it must be lightning or just a magical bolt surrounding the hammer.
Thor's strongest magical attack, GodForce Blast, would be more then enough to beat down Superman.Why?Cause it temporary stopped the forward movement of the Juggernaut, cause it caused damage to a Celestial, cause it's an attack that possess a magnitude of power sufficient to go through Supes Bio Aura, and considering it's also a magical attack, the chance of success are higher than those of a high level energy attack not magic in his nature.
Magical attacks in the MU are not classified as Electromagnetic Energy of a certain wavelenght.Reed Richards himself try to block Dr. Doom's magical power when Doom was wearing an armor obtained after he made a deal with 3 demonds, and he use a rifle shooting energy of every wavelenght of the EM Spectrum.He disturbed Doom for few moments, then Doom defeat him.It disturb him cause it was a strong energy attack, not cause it was in the EM spectrum.

2.I'm with you.Assuming that beings like Thor are unbeatable is foolish.
Thor is a medium level God, compared to beings like Galactus, or the Stranger, The Celestials, which powers really make them, practically, Gods.Odin himself and the skyfathers of the Earth are really powerful, Odin has defeated Silver Surfer with ease, but they aren't Gods in terms of "I can wave an hand or blink an eye and the world will be mine".

3.Thor's fighting abilities are on par with Hercules or near him.Everyone that has stated or write his abilities are under those of Cap or Wolvie is really wrong, cause Thor is on Earth from thousands of years, he's not born 30years ago.
Now, you tell me Thor’s maximum press strength is around 100 tons.
I answer LOL@100 tons.Thor has substained an entire section of the JFK Airport avoiding it to collapse on the heads of the citizens.He has lifted the Jormungand Serpent, that is so big it surround the Earth itself.
Now you talk about thor's invulnerability, or resistance to injuries, choose the term you prefer.
He's the tougher of the Asgardians, only Odin exceed him.
The Presence, blasts him with nuclear energy.
Result?Thor's clothes ruined, Thor gets mad cause Captain America is transformed into a radioactive zombie.
Radioactive Man blasts him with sufficient heat to incinerate a city block.
Result?Thor's clothes ruined.
Graviton blasts Thor with force blasts.
And just to make you know it:
By rapidly projecting gravitons in a cohesive beam, he can generate a force blast with a maximum concussive force equivalent to the primary shockwave of an explosion of 20,000 pounds of TNT.
Thor was also blasted with Power Cosmic from Silver Surfer, Thanos, etc.
He was hitted with nuclear missiles, the result?Thor becomes angry, very angry
He was hitted with the Destroyer energy blasts, and survived it.
He was hitted by the fists of Hulk, SS, Gladiator, Mangog, Ulik, Fenris the Wolf, Desak, Perrikus, Juggernaut, and other powerhouses, and he survived it.
So are you still arguing on his resistance to injuries?
Now what's left?Thor's speed 200mph?He's fast as the lightning he control.His superspeed is rarely showed.But someone that can parry fast attacks like those of the Living Laser is obviously sufficiently fast in terms of reflexes and reaction time to stay toe to toe with Supes or the Gladiator.
And also, you're wrong on Mjolnir's speed.
Thor with his hammer can achieve escape velocity and more, he has surpassed starships with his hammer.

yea...dont post stuff about Thor based on bios or COMIC BOOK CARDS HAHAHAHAHA.
-Thor lifted the Jormungad Serpent...a creature wrapped around the whole planet, that caused the whole Earth to quake...i think he has also held up the world trade center on another occasion. (more than 100 tons)
-Thor's strength and durability are not due to an energy field or aura or self telekinises like Superman...but the actual strength of his tissues, Thus Thor is 600+lbs and Superman is 235
-Thor is obviously far more durable than 3 times that of kevlar...we dont even need to argue this since he has survived hits from Thanos.
-Thor, the true Thor, NOT ERIC MASTERSON, has fought Gladiator...and if anyone actually read the comic book they would understand the speed discrepancy.
-godforce blast has stopped juggernaut, harmed a celestial, and made Galactus retreat...it would vaporize superman
-Mjolnir has another power that wasnt mentioned...it can absorb any form of energy...thus making it extremely dangerous to someone like Superman, who unlike Hulk or Hercules, doesnt have truly dense tissue and invulnerability....If Thor absorbs Superman's aura, he will be left just as vulnerable as when his aura was exhausted and Doomsday killed him
-Despite what comic book cards have said, marvel handbook published that Thor's fighting abilities were "excellent in hand to hand combat", the same description they gave SABRETOOTH'S fighting skills.
-Dont argue about speed, u know very well Superman can move so fast because DC characters r written without the slightest grasp on science, if someone in the MU moved as fast as superman they would cause enough shockwave and air resistance to ignite the atmosphere and kill all their allies around them.

it was a good post though, but clearly bias for superman and uninformed statements about Thor.

Bottom line, it would be a close fight...it could be written to go either way and Thor could also certainly easily win if he used Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Fantastic argument H1a8!

I agree with a lot of the stuff you said - I like the stuff you said about his bio-matrix being vulnerable to some radiations - that explains about K-Nite too - which also gives out radiation of strange wavelengths.

I don't think the fight would be as easy to pull off as you suggest though.

Supes definitely does have the POTENTIAL to whupp Thor, if he went all out - but he never does. It would be out of character.

Plus, Thor is much older with more experience than Supes. AND his magical powers aren't limited to summoning weather - what about the Godforce he can summon? If Supes tried to stand there and take it like he does with most things, he'd certainly be very injured or even killed.

Both are good characters - both stand for might and right. But though I love Supes and believe he has the power to pull it off if he tried, I think he'd find it tough going...

Saints Above. A junior member who doesn't sprout useless rhetoric. WELCOME TO KMC FORUMS! Excellent argument! 😄

Originally posted by Wynndar

-Mjolnir has another power that wasnt mentioned...it can absorb any form of energy...thus making it extremely dangerous to someone like Superman, who unlike Hulk or Hercules, doesnt have truly dense tissue and invulnerability....If Thor absorbs Superman's aura, he will be left just as vulnerable as when his aura was exhausted and Doomsday killed him

It's faulty really. If Thor can absorb Superman's aura why couldn't he absorb Wonder Man's ionic aura or Count Nefaria's ionic aura or Hyperion's solar aura or....

Well Wynndar is right it can absorb certain forms of energy just not all forms like he stated.

Originally posted by Wynndar

-Dont argue about speed, u know very well Superman can move so fast because DC characters r written without the slightest grasp on science.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Well Wynndar is right it can absorb certain forms of energy just not all forms like he stated.

well i know its been really versatile in the forms of energy it can absorb...what kinds of energy can it specifically not absorb?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
That brings us back to the radioactive spider thing I believe.

exactly, when spiderman was created they tried to encorparate scientific based powers rather than pure fantasy...although modern superman has made an attempt to make the source of his powers more scientific by explaining aura's, wavelengths, telekinises, etc...originally there was no more explanation than: he is empowered by a yellow sun...while spiderman's powers were based on genetic mutation, recombination, a true scientific concept. Considering that genetic traits can and are regularly taken from one organism and then placed into another, i dont see what the problem is.

Well I have not read many Thor comics just vol. 2 ealier issues and I dont remember him even doing it at all. He must not be able to absorb the power cosmic or Hulks radiation cause he didnt do it when they fought.

Originally posted by Wynndar
exactly, when spiderman was created they tried to encorparate scientific based powers rather than pure fantasy...although modern superman has made an attempt to make the source of his powers more scientific by explaining aura's, wavelengths, telekinises, etc...originally there was no more explanation than: he is empowered by a yellow sun...while spiderman's powers were based on genetic mutation, recombination, a true scientific concept. Considering that genetic traits can and are regularly taken from one organism and then placed into another, i dont see what the problem is.

hahaha

no but Stan Lee did attempt to incorporate real scientific and social concepts that were pertinent at the time...DC's characters and whether or not people cared about science in the 1930's doesnt contribute or take away from how creative and well written Marvel's were in the 60's. I sound like i think Marvel characters really exist? u sound like u dont get my point.

Besides Superman give me another example of someone who has powers that seem "unrealistic"

The comics in the 1930s incorporated live fantasy and patriotism. Superman was meant to be a enthnographic character for America. Superman could beat anyone at anytime. That was the general perception of America. "We can beat any country." Superman was created to be iconic figurehead for America's ideals. His powers were not really explained because they felt it wasn't necessary.

Spider-Man was created during the science boom of the 60's. His powers would make sense.

practically all superheroes have powers that r unrealistic...Daredevil, FF, your beloved Juggernaut, Cyclops...do i really have to explain why? The difference is most of Marvel's characters have powers based on science, specifically mutation...most DC characters are just based on pretense