I say Luke wins the saber duel, Kenobi takes the rest. AOTC Kenobi got manhandled by Dooku, while ROTJ Luke defeated Vader. Vader may not have been trying to kill Luke, plus Luke was using the dark side, but he still got past Vader's saber defenses, which is still impressive. It'd be a good fight though I think.
I disagree.
Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.
Luke doesn't have any of these advantages over the Jedi Master. On the contrary he is lacking heavily.
By the time of Episode 2 Obi-Wan is a 35 years old heavily seasoned Jedi Knight who pretty much works as the Jedi Council's James Bond. What? Why else would they send him to investigate and fulfill every ****ing mission available? Besides Obi-Wan's style is more aggressive in Epsidoe 2, and Luke doesn't really have a style at all. he just swings the lightsaber around like Babe Ruth on coke.
Force-wise Luke has the raw power/untapped potential advantage, but I don't see him doing anything too impressive with it.
Going all out Obi-Wan beats him. The General is quite tenacious and resourceful. He didn't survive the Jedi purge out of sheer luck.
My 2 cents.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I disagree.Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.
Luke doesn't have any of these advantages over the Jedi Master. On the contrary he is lacking heavily.
By the time of Episode 2 Obi-Wan is a 35 years old heavily seasoned Jedi Knight who pretty much works as the Jedi Council's James Bond. What? Why else would they send him to investigate and fulfill every ****ing mission available? Besides Obi-Wan's style is more aggressive in Epsidoe 2, and Luke doesn't really have a style at all. he just swings the lightsaber around like Babe Ruth on coke.
Force-wise Luke has the raw power/untapped potential advantage, but I don't see him doing anything too impressive with it.
Going all out Obi-Wan beats him. The General is quite tenacious and resourceful. He didn't survive the Jedi purge out of sheer luck.
My 2 cents.
lol vader beat obi wan, dooku beat him in rots too by rendering him unconsius in 3 seconds.
luke takes the saber duel, if we can overlook that they didnt have great special affects in rotj we can see that the intensity of lukes djem so was equal or greater to vader's
all this against an obi wan who hadnt mastered soresu.
luke with difficulty takes this in swords
obi wan takes the force with difficuly
all out luke
Originally posted by Man of Christ
lol vader beat obi wan, dooku beat him in rots too by rendering him unconsius in 3 seconds.
LoL. Vader strikes Obi-Wan when he turns off his lightsaber. Impressive victory there. w00tdur
Dooku is Dooku. No arguing there.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
luke takes the saber duel, if we can overlook that they didnt have great special affects in rotj we can see that the intensity of lukes djem so was equal or greater to vader'sall this against an obi wan who hadnt mastered soresu.
At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.
Impressive I tell ya.
Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Dooku is Dooku. No arguing there.At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.
Impressive I tell ya.
Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.
But Vader beat Dookee and Anakin and Luke beat Vader who beat 80 year old Obi-Wan and Dooku who beat Obi-Wan so Luke > Vader, and Dooku who > Obi-Wan.
So Luke wins! dur
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I disagree.Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.
Lol yes, and he had only ever faced 2 Sith! 1 out if 2 doesn't mean anything, plus he beat Maul by luck, you could say, Maul defeated Kenobi by tossing him into the pit but then Kenobi got lucky and won.
And Dooku pwned Kenobi because he was superior to Kenobi in every way.
Luke doesn't have any of these advantages over the Jedi Master. On the contrary he is lacking heavily.
By the time of Episode 2 Obi-Wan is a 35 years old heavily seasoned Jedi Knight
who pretty much works as the Jedi Council's James Bond. What? Why else would they send him to investigate and fulfill every ****ing mission available?
Force-wise Luke has the raw power/untapped potential advantage, but I don't see him doing anything too impressive with it.
Going all out Obi-Wan beats him. The General is quite tenacious and resourceful. He didn't survive the Jedi purge out of sheer luck.
At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
LoL. Vader strikes Obi-Wan when he turns off his lightsaber. Impressive victory there. w00tdurDooku is Dooku. No arguing there.
At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.
Impressive I tell ya.
Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.
like obi wan had a choice, he would have been cut down any way. vader was still a powerful sith, and it was kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. vader was 80% as strong as the emperor thats pretty impressive and for luke to beat that is no small feat.
vader's emotions couldnt have had THAT much of an impact on the duel, after all he swung at luke while his lightsaber was down "you are unwise to lower your defenses"
then he threw the lightsaber at lukes head while his blade was off
"if you will not fight then you will meet your destiny"
luke wasnt going all out either as he was trying to convert vader to the light side
Aotc kenobi doesnt have the soresu to deal with luke's djem so, therefore he wouldnt prevail over luke but would give him a run for his money
I can't believe people are back to this bullshit again. Luke's ascension is impressive, but Vader, by his showings in the EU, would've utterly dominated him had he been trying to. A lot of you have argued heavily for Vader in the past, citing some Force-feat or another; how is Luke going to compete with someone who can take apart a "master of the sword" (Roan Shryne) barely a few weeks after getting into a claustrophobic, mobility-hindering suit? Hell, how is he even going to defend against a Force-choke coming from Vader?
The Sith Lord has defeated many enemies who could likely take Luke down - resurrected Darth Maul, anyone? Roan Shryne, who was purportedly one of a select group of Jedi (including Qui-Gon) who could've been nominated for the Council? The five Masters he took apart in Purge before being brought down by a combined Force-assault from the three survivors (which involved ripping up everything in the vicinity and hurling it at Vader)? Yeah, thought so.
Luke would've died miserably against Vader in a serious battle, and as it stands Obi-Wan's achievements even by AotC eclipse any of Luke's best showings.
And darthsith, taking apart Jabba's goons and choking two Gamorreans isn't exactly godly. In TPM, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight through legions of TF battle droids at least twice and manage not to get themselves shot in the hand. And in AotC, he fought through an army of them and managed to survive(Yeah, don't bring up Padmé; she had Anakin). The only noteworthy opponent on Jabba's barge would've been Boba Fett, and he got pwned by a blind Han Solo.
This is disgraceful...
Originally posted by Faunus
And darthsith, taking apart Jabba's goons and choking two Gamorreans isn't exactly godly. In TPM, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight through legions of TF battle droids at least twice and manage not to get themselves shot in the hand. And in AotC, he fought through an army of them and managed to survive(Yeah, don't bring up Padmé; she had Anakin). The only noteworthy opponent on Jabba's barge would've been Boba Fett, and he got pwned by a blind Han Solo.This is disgraceful...
Luke got shot in the hand, so what? If Padme had been walking by Anakin in a metal bikini he'd have gotten shot, too...
AOTC Kenobi and Anakin had 200 other Jedi with them and they were still about to die until the Clone Army showed up.
Originally posted by darthsith19... Right. So Jabba the Hutt, notorious gangster known across the galaxy, managed to fit his entire crime syndicate on one barge.
Apart from Han taking care of Boba, Luke took Jabba's entire crime syndicate alone.
Qui-Gon and Kenobi were together, and they never fight legions of droids. At the beginning of the film, on the Trade Federation ship, they take out a squad - I can count how many there were if you need me too.Obi-Wan himself takes out eight of them in about thirteen seconds, counting those three he Force-pushes at the end, and then takes out three more in about five seconds just before Qui-Gon starts melting the blast door. He takes out two more while guarding Jinn. That's when the destroyers come in, and after deflecting several vollyes Qui-Gon says "it's a stand-off," and they run away.
Really, really fast. In literally two seconds, they cover the entire length of the hallway and get out of sight.
Here's the link.
Discounting the droids they probably fought between the two skirmishes, and the speed with which the droids were dispatched, that still appears more impressive than Luke's feat, especially when the speed burst at the end is taken into account.
Luke got shot in the hand, so what?He got shot. By goons. Whereas Padawan Obi-Wan, just a bit older than Luke is (and with well over two decades of training vs. Luke's hours with Ben and days or weeks with Yoda), manages not to.
Luke picks up after RotJ, and fast, but as of then he's still nothing big.
If Padme had been walking by Anakin in a metal bikini he'd have gotten shot, too...If that's what your argument's come down to.
AOTC Kenobi and Anakin had 200 other Jedi with them and they were still about to die until the Clone Army showed up.Not the point. They didn't surround themselves with other Jedi and use them as body shields; they were in the thick of it, the entire time, and managed not to get grazed.
And I like how you completely ignored the bulk of my argument, which centered around Vader's dominance over Luke.
... Right. So Jabba the Hutt, notorious gangster known across the galaxy, managed to fit his entire crime syndicate on one barge.
Obi-Wan himself takes out eight of them in about thirteen seconds, counting those three he Force-pushes at the end, and then takes out three more in about five seconds just before Qui-Gon starts melting the blast door. He takes out two more while guarding Jinn. That's when the destroyers come in, and after deflecting several vollyes Qui-Gon says "it's a stand-off," and they run away.Really, really fast. In literally two seconds, they cover the entire length of the hallway and get out of sight.
Here's the link.
Discounting the droids they probably fought between the two skirmishes, and the speed with which the droids were dispatched, that still appears more impressive than Luke's feat, especially when the speed burst at the end is taken into account.
He got shot. By goons. Whereas Padawan Obi-Wan, just a bit older than Luke is (and with well over two decades of training vs. Luke's hours with Ben and days or weeks with Yoda), manages not to.
If that's what your argument's come down to.
Not the point. They didn't surround themselves with other Jedi and use them as body shields; they were in the thick of it, the entire time, and managed not to get grazed.
And I like how you completely ignored the bulk of my argument, which centered around Vader's dominance over Luke.
ROTJ Luke was good enough to give Obi Wan a decent fight but that's it. Anyone suggesting that a ROTJ Luke is beating an experienced and skillful Jedi like AOTC Obi Wan doesnt't know what they are talking about.
Even looking at his fight with Vader; Vader wasn't even fighting to kill and he had Luke pissing in his pants before Luke gave into his rage and cut Vader's hand off. And before anyone starts arguing over this, Vader was never going to kill the child of the woman he loved.
Luke's skill level both with sabers and the force is well below AOTC Obi Wan's. Obi Wan wins in all three scenarios.
Originally posted by Allankles
ROTJ Luke was good enough to give Obi Wan a decent fight but that's it. Anyone suggesting that a ROTJ Luke is beating an experienced and skillful Jedi like AOTC Obi Wan doesnt't know what they are talking about.Even looking at his fight with Vader; Vader wasn't even fighting to kill and he had Luke pissing in his pants before Luke gave into his rage and cut Vader's hand off. And before anyone starts arguing over this, Vader was never going to kill the child of the woman he loved.
Luke's skill level both with sabers and the force is well below AOTC Obi Wan's. Obi Wan wins in all three scenarios.
speculation