EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament Finals (6-1): Darthgoober vs King Kandy

First of all, I want to vary clear that I deem King Kandy gains the speed boost. Its basically Zoom, gaining Dr. Strange mystic knowledge. And no I don’t believe speed is the natural enemy to magic. The only spells that do not gain the speed boost are rituals, and summons. I don’t feel like going technical as to why, but I think some of you are starting to get an idea.

And know I have to place a vote that is going to piss off some members. My vote goes to Darth Goober.

Two reasons or two scenarios.

1) I over looked this, or it didn’t cross my mind. But Professor Strange, retains Zooms mind and his memories. Yes he can pull off any spell, that is not item dependent. However knowledge of the items, and where they are located are not available or no explanation was given as to how they would be obtained. Basically the prep, and strategy is item heavy and with out it. Well KK cant cast spells, while in astral form.

2) Disregarding the above, and say he has the items for arguments sake. He is in the race against the clock, since he BFR himself and is projecting himself. However he attempts to BFR Goob, by what seems to be in inescapable dimension. Goob makes a case, that SS escaped the Soul World…yet I see him holding the gem when he does so. And KK makes a case, that Strange escaped only because he went through the Gates of Hell, besting Death. The problem I see, is that Death was attempting to claim Strange due to his demise.

The situation is not the same for either, KK can successfully BFR Goob. But he is BFR’ed to a deaths realm alive. Death has no reason to lay claim over SA, and SA would apply his power of cosmic to escape.

Upon returning the battle would continue, but you cant harm KK as astral projection. Or at least no evidence was shown SS being capable off. Forms of projection, and/or forms of intangibility are not intangible. A sword that is meant to harm the soul, will do little to an astral projection unless its stated or shown to do so. This is due to the nature, or mechanics behind the various incorporeal projection.

However, KK did not really give me enough to go as to how he would damage Goob. And lets be real, Goob has much to answer, with suffice speed to combat an item ready KK. Most likely the time would be up, before either pull out a killing blow.

Originally posted by id369
First of all, I want to vary clear that I deem King Kandy gains the speed boost. Its basically Zoom, gaining Dr. Strange mystic knowledge. And no I don’t believe speed is the natural enemy to magic. The only spells that do not gain the speed boost are rituals, and summons. I don’t feel like going technical as to why, but I think some of you are starting to get an idea.

And know I have to place a vote that is going to piss off some members. My vote goes to Darth Goober.

Two reasons or two scenarios.

1) I over looked this, or it didn’t cross my mind. But Professor Strange, retains Zooms mind and his memories. Yes he can pull off any spell, that is not item dependent. However knowledge of the items, and where they are located are not available or no explanation was given as to how they would be obtained. Basically the prep, and strategy is item heavy and with out it. Well KK cant cast spells, while in astral form.

2) Disregarding the above, and say he has the items for arguments sake. He is in the race against the clock, since he BFR himself and is projecting himself. However he attempts to BFR Goob, by what seems to be in inescapable dimension. Goob makes a case, that SS escaped the Soul World…yet I see him holding the gem when he does so. And KK makes a case, that Strange escaped only because he went through the Gates of Hell, besting Death. The problem I see, is that Death was attempting to claim Strange due to his demise.

The situation is not the same for either, KK can successfully BFR Goob. But he is BFR’ed to a deaths realm alive. Death has no reason to lay claim over SA, and SA would apply his power of cosmic to escape.

Upon returning the battle would continue, but you cant harm KK as astral projection. Or at least no evidence was shown SS being capable off. Forms of projection, and/or forms of intangibility are not intangible. A sword that is meant to harm the soul, will do little to an astral projection unless its stated or shown to do so. This is due to the nature, or mechanics behind the various incorporeal projection.

However, KK did not really give me enough to go as to how he would damage Goob. And lets be real, Goob has much to answer, with suffice speed to combat an item ready KK. Most likely the time would be up, before either pull out a killing blow.

And that's aside from the mystic abilities I have from the Scarlet Witch, Dr. Druid and Brother Voodoo(remember the "assume the minimum" policy).

Also, in the scan where Surfer escapes the Soul World, the reason he's holding the gems is because he somehow grabs it off of the Supreme Intelligence when he escapes(the Supreme Intelligence was wearing the gem on his head at the time). Surfer wasn't actually wielding the gem while in the Soul World.

Also, people should take care not to underestimate the Hex Power of the Scarlet Witch. Even in it's classic days it was quite powerful, it's just that Wanda would tire quickly from it's use(but the Silver Adaptoid's energy reserves are FAR greater than Wanda's)

Here we see Wanda's Hex bolts working effectively against a group of spirits that are so powerful Wanda's strongest spell can't touch them...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7546/vs0513nk2.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6215/vs0514la3.jpg

I know that the Hex Bolts seem to be a measly attack against someone like Strange, but just remember that EVERY time I tag him with one the odds that he'll make a mistake in his spellcasting and such increase more and more.

And when those tentacles grabbed Strange they grabbed his PHYSICAL form, it's not as if he were astrally projecting. I've yet to see anything to suggest that they can grab the Silver Adaptoid if I'm in astral form myself while I'm attacking Kandy. Kandy would actually have to seek out my body for his BFR tactic to work and he's not going to hae time while I'm tearing into him.

Voting for Goob.

The BFR from Kandy seems iffy at best and the posted evidence makes the SilverAdaptoid at least close to as fast as ProfStrange and superior in virtually every other way (excluding the ever important "Hef factor"😉

My votes for Goob. He provided a more substantiated offensive strategy and his character is versatile enough to counter Kandy's Astral Projection. Also Evangel's decision that Kandy would not be able to summon his demon horde didn't exactly help either (though Goob accounted for that as well).

Okay, there's some misunderstanding about the realm of unreality, and this is my own fault for not going into more detail. It is NOT Death's realm. Death's realm was simply the only exit from it. Now, Strange had to go through Death's gates first... but something I myself forgot was that the GATES WOULD NOT OPEN FOR ANYONE BUT STRANGE! There was an entire city of souls outside who wanted to die, but they wouldn't because Death didn't want them. Now, since I BFRed Surfer while he was alive, there's no reason those gates should open for him. So i'm not seeing how he could get to Death in the first place. This is why, imo, Id's opinion of why Strange would escape is in fact the opposite.

Other problems are: Strange always has an auto-shield (check the respect thread.) so saying I have no shields is wrong. The shield in fact resisted an attack from a being who was said to be able to "devastate planets."

Okay, Darth has shown NOTHING to prove Surfer can astral project for a significant time. He says he can do it "for but a moment." Darth has not even proven that is figurative, while I believe I have shown reasonable proof that a moment is not very long. And his latest ideas for harming me... well even he admits it is only speculation. I'll get the jump on him and BFR him before he can project.

Hmm...since I haven't heard from Mindset or Charlotte DeBel in this thread yet, I'll keep the voting period extended until the final supervoter casts their vote, or until the start of the next match on saturday. Whichever comes first. I know that Mindset and id369 at least got the latest PM asking him to cast his vote as soon as he could.

-Evangel94

Voting for Goob. He seemed to have Kandy on the ropes the entire time,\. I find most of Kandy's plan rather strained and contrived, and the sheer amount that he needs to prove viable works against him, even if Goob didn't have a number of overlooked methods of attack himself.

Sorry for the late vote- had to get up pretty early to do that- the disadvantage of living in Eastern Europe and miscounting timezones a bit.

So considering everything, I don't agree with a couple of points. First of all, where did you seen physical speedup being transferred to the astral form? It doesn't seem that believeable. Same with ability to cast various spells. That's lack of proper prep.

Goob's plan was farfetched in a couple of points and I don't really see either being able to damage each other. ProfStrange is most likely without spellcasting ability=basically basing his very thing on hideout, Goob hasn't shown anything really damageable for astral projections- as id369 said, there are a lot of them.The battle seems to be a stalemate.

But... Goob has presented a better explanation for his strategy so my vote goes to Darthgoober.

Just to be official we're still awaiting judgment from Mindset, and this thread is still open to those who want to and can vote.

Here's the current:

DarthGoober 9 votes
Creshosk Vote nulled because Evangel94 doesn't think he's an objective voter.
id369
Symmetric Chaos
illadelph12
Zeitgeist
Charlotte DeBel

King Kandy 0 votes

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thanks for thve vote, but I'm curious as to why you think I'll be unable to damage KK? These scans clearly show Surfer's ability to take down astral forms...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2006.jpg

And that's aside from the mystic abilities I have from the Scarlet Witch, Dr. Druid and Brother Voodoo(remember the "assume the minimum" policy).

Also, in the scan where Surfer escapes the Soul World, the reason he's holding the gems is because he somehow grabs it off of the Supreme Intelligence when he escapes(the Supreme Intelligence was wearing the gem on his head at the time). Surfer wasn't actually wielding the gem while in the Soul World.

In short, an astral projection, is akin to say a movie projector. Only it retains vary little essence, enough to move around freely, and be aware of its surrounding.

I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.

Originally posted by id369
Well the problem is, they are not fighting in the astral plane. But yes if a match takes place in the astral plane, can end up in fatal results.

Just needed that confirmed, thanks.

kandy shouldn't have gone astral, voting for darthgoober.

under normal condition i would have picked doctor strange over the silver surfer, but your prep weakened his total effectiveness.

strange at full power is respected by galactus, he doesn't really fear him but he recognizes he can give him a run for his money if he channels power from his many resources.

you should have focused on the vishanti and other powerful assets immediately available to the sorcerer supreme.

Originally posted by id369
IRRC, “In Thy Name” is not part of the 616 continuality, which is why I ignored it. Anyhow astral projection, is simply projecting oneself across a the planes. It retains none of the physical attributes, and most of the time you cant really do much in astral projection for the same reasons. At best, you could destroy the astral projection. But there is no reason why said character could not re-project himself if his body isn't harmed.

In short, an astral projection, is akin to say a movie projector. Only it retains vary little essence, enough to move around freely, and be aware of its surrounding.

Also Kandy's not allowed to return to his body because he BFR'd it. If his astral form is destroyed Kandy loses.

Originally posted by darthgoober
When has Marvel said that In Thy Name isn't 616? I've been asking around KMC and everyone said that Marvel hasn't taken a specific stance on it, which is why I felt free to use the scan.

Also Kandy's not allowed to return to his body because he BFR'd it. If his astral form is destroyed Kandy loses.

Actually I remember reading an article, stating it does not fit within the 616 continuity. I'll look for it.

2 real quick things before I cast my vote, sorry it has taken so long, I've been realy busy.

What spells has Strange shown to be able to cast while in his astral form?

Is In Thy Name canon, and if not, what is the extent of SS astral form abilities?