Full Moons and Epilepsy

My dog's veterinarian is very professional, clearly informed about his work, and has always done an excellent job diagnosing and treating our pets throughout the years. But something he said recently raised my eyebrow when I heard it, and I haven't been able to find research to evaluate the claim. My dog recently had a mild seizure. We hurried him to the vet, and they ran the proper tests (blood sample to determine if sugar levels were acceptable and organs were functioning properly) as well as giving us medication for our dog in the event of further seizures, as well as common sense advice such as putting him in a cool bath if they occurred one after another to keep his temperature down at non-lethal levels.

Then a nurse informed him it had just been a full moon, and he shook his head knowingly, and explained to us that sometimes seizures were brought on by a full moon. He also claimed that it occurred in humans too, and was commonly referred to as "lunacy," which makes sense due to the mythological allusion to Luna, the moon goddess. Certainly the myths surrounding full moons are numerous, enough so that such a claim would come as no surprise to many people. But not having heard such ideas outside of horror films, it seemed more folk legend than actual science when I heard it, though I could certainly be wrong.

I've found a couple online reports:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/full_moon_040526.html
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/lunatic_dogs_010109-1.html
The first relates to human behavior, and finds no correlation. The second focuses on dogs, and one study covered finds a seemingly significant positive correlation and the other finds none. Taken collectively, they seem to support my suspicion, but not totally debunk the claim. One of the two studies on dogs remains as refutation, as does my vet's curiously accepting endorsement of such a phenomenon.

I actually have an email in to the Skeptic Society ( www.skeptic.com ) to hopefully evaluate the studies, correct any errors, and possibly provide other information of this nature. I don't expect a response, they're busy people, but it may happen since they specialize in evaluating scientific claims of this nature (and of many other topics). I decided to make a thread because it seemed vaguely interesting to me, and may engender discussion.

Although previous studies investigating the potential association between epileptic seizures and the lunar cycle have yielded conflicting results, a recent study of 859 people with epilepsy showed a significant relationship between increased seizure activity during full-moon days. In this study, 34.2 percent of seizures occurred on full-moon days versus 21.4 percent of seizures occurred on days in which there was a new moon.

Lunar phases and seizure occurrence: Just an ancient legend?

However, the evidence remains soft.

Originally posted by Storm
Although previous studies investigating the potential association between epileptic seizures and the lunar cycle have yielded conflicting results, a recent study of 859 people with epilepsy showed a significant relationship between increased seizure activity during full-moon days. In this study, 34.2 percent of seizures occurred on full-moon days versus 21.4 percent of seizures occurred on days in which there was a new moon.

Lunar phases and seizure occurrence: Just an ancient legend?

However, the evidence remains soft.

Just as I would expect, the best way to measure it would be AROUND the full moon day and not just the day of the full moon because of various delayed effects. (If its tied into the metabolic system in some way, then we would expect those with faster metabolisms to react faster to the "lunacy" effect and that should "reflect"(lol pun) as much. If it is a neurological effect due to some sort of radiation associated with the moon's light during the night, there should be markers for individuals more sensitive to that radiation. (There is also radiation given off during the night from the day's sun...but that should be unrelated...but it could in some weird way tie into the greater radiation from the moon. All variables should be thought of, considered, and tested for.)

If it is a psychological effect (something truly subconscious), then we should be able to artificially induce the results with multiple test subjects in. Something like this would be very very difficult to try to accomplish. Keeping the test subjects in a closed environment with artificial lighting that is seamless to the test subjects as a reality...then slowly alter the time that the "moon" becomes full. Again, that is a very very elaborate way to test this effect as psychological in nature.

On that note, it is very possible that the full moon causes humans and other animals alike to experience seizures due to specific positive evolutionary traits. (I know I used the word "positive" in an indirect reference to seizures, but bare with me, I'll explain.) We as organisms may exhibit, in some shape or form, slightly different brain activity due to the increased light during the night. This increase, yet fully subconscious, in brain activity (even if oh so very slight) may help predators make better use of the additional light but also help the prey make better use of its awareness to avoid the predators. Whose to say that the specific increase due to additional light, if even subconscious, does not tie in, in some way to the mechanisms responsible for seizures? To sum up, it could be instinctual in nature due to evolution induced by survivability traits.

We could take this further and list the neurological influences of seizures and then correlate that data to neurological effects of increased light during the night. That may then be a replacement test for the stringent artificial test that would have to be conducted to keep from poisoning the test subjects.

Perhaps if the data were plotted, we might be able to see a slight clustering of data around the full moon days in any of my above suggested experiments. Many more people and animals, imo, would need to be observed/recorded in order for a stronger correlation to be realized. On top of that, the results would have to be peer reviewed and replicated.

I am almost sure inimalist can provide better insight into this for us.

Digi, everytime I see your posts, I go straight to your dino comic thread.

An evolutionary explanation for it seems tenuous, at best, to me, but I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Thanks for the comments though guys.

Studies do need to be careful when evaluating test subjects, because seizures or similar symptoms in patients whose problem is primarily psychological will indeed tend to exhibit symptoms more often on full moon days, since those whose root problem is psychological rather than physical will tend to respond to irrational stimuli such as a full moon.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Digi, everytime I see your posts, I go straight to your dino comic thread.

Hehe. Cool.

313

Success!

The Skeptics Society came through. Ironically, with a summary from their own website ( 😮 for me not finding it).

http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html

...seems a fairly cogent argument against a link between them.

well the moon effects the water. and since we are 70% water.... 😎

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Success!

The Skeptics Society came through. Ironically, with a summary from their own website ( 😮 for me not finding it).

http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html

...seems a fairly cogent argument against a link between them.

Well, that pretty much settles it. It was what you thought it was...folklore and tradition, media, misconceptions, and cognitive biases.

Originally posted by Deano
well the moon effects the water. and since we are 70% water.... 😎

Heh.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, that pretty much settles it. It was what you thought it was...folklore and tradition, media, misconceptions, and cognitive biases.

Well, scientific truths are provisional and subject to further testing, and while the one test I dug up that seemed to find a correlation between them is in the vast minority (along with possible others like it) they still exist. But yes, essentially it settles it in my mind. Very little is irrefutable, but the evidence against it is stacked so high as to make it highly improbable....and isn't something I'll believe in without lots of additional evidence.

Originally posted by Deano
well the moon effects the water. and since we are 70% water.... 😎

So . . . werewolves are actually just lunatics? hmm

the moon is an artificial spacecraft anyway

So, not that I haven't dranken the skeptical kool-aid or anything, but wouldn't the Skeptical Society be, almost by definition, a biased source?

I mean, look at something like psychics. I'm totally in favor of the methods of skeptics, but can you imagine them performing a psychic test without post hoccing the end results if the psychic wins?

I trust the skeptics site and conclusions, but imho, pretty predetermined what their answer was going to be 🙂

Originally posted by inimalist
So, not that I haven't dranken the skeptical kool-aid or anything, but wouldn't the Skeptical Society be, almost by definition, a biased source?

I mean, look at something like psychics. I'm totally in favor of the methods of skeptics, but can you imagine them performing a psychic test without post hoccing the end results if the psychic wins?

I trust the skeptics site and conclusions, but imho, pretty predetermined what their answer was going to be 🙂

The name is one of the few things I regret about the publication they put out. But among their goals is the promotion of proper science, among them being empirical double-blind tests and searching all avenues for a conclusion before reaching provisional results. The definition they use for a "skeptic" is not one of immediately assuming falsehood in seemingly outrageous claims, but they stress logical evaluation on a phenomenon before reaching a decision. The name creates an immediate reaction in most people, but when I actually observe their treatment of scientific phenomenon (or pseudo-scientific in this case) I can find little to no fault with them.

As a longtime reader of their magazine, it's not uncommon to have an article writer admit where more study need done or where skepticism is premature. And while it certainly can't be done with all topics, they usually have a point/counter-point style written by two people on different sides of the fence for 1-2 "big" issues per issue.

As for the particular article they linked me to, the results and analysis are not their own. They're simply reporting the findings of the most scientifically valid and thorough studies. If someone within the Skeptic community had done the research, there would be more cause for alarm. As it is, I trust the conclusions they linked me to not just on their authority, but on my own reading of it, since it makes logical sense to me.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
So . . . werewolves are actually just lunatics? hmm

Originally posted by lord xyz
😂 You were waiting to tell that joke for ages, weren't you?

Since about 12pm today. 😛 😄

Hiker has now peaked..Like the rise and fall of a civilisation. His decline will now be evident in the coming months.

Originally posted by Deano
Hiker has now peaked..Like the rise and fall of a civilisation. His decline will now be evident in the coming months.

Peaked as in sexually? Explain.

The full moon definetly effects us, I notice it on myself and other people I know how thier mood changes.

My head seems to be more pressurised on a full moon, and I get ratty.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
The full moon definetly effects us, I notice it on myself and other people I know how thier mood changes.

My head seems to be more pressurised on a full moon, and I get ratty.

Could this be because of a confirmation bias of a belief in the phenomenon? Are there full moons when this doesn't happen? Do you count those occurrences as evidence against your theory? Are there times when you feel "pressurised" and ratty on non-full moon days? Does this count as the same amount of counter-evidence? Do you remember the full moon days better because they stand out in your mind? Are your experiences a good representative sample of the population? What causal mechanism would be exerted on your person to produce such affects, especially when the only two physcial influences of the moon (light and gravity) are produced in much higher amounts by numerous other sources?

This is what the article outlines, among other things. Getting ratty on a full moon means very little, and certainly doesn't equal "definitely affects us."