Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, that is your opinion. In no way have you established that it is fact.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
but you are totally fine with a private insurer with no accountability, no competition, and a real financial incentive to rob and kill you to actually RATION your care.
And you're using a libtard talking points.
They currently have:
1. Accountability.
2. Competition (but not enough in some places)
3. While rationing care is something they do, robbing and killing you (through their practices) would put them out of business and the market would take care of them.
And before you fly off the handle with something dramatic, I'm just playing devil's advocate as the conservatards have pretty much pushed me into supporting some sort of gomment/single payer option.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
👆
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Tool
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
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LOL @ this exchange. It made me chuckle.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Doctors and hospitals are part of the problem by being so prohibitively expensive that you can't pay without insurance. In Japan, the government has set amounts that doctors can charge for services, and their system works much better.
This is a good talking point, imo. It appeals to rationality and not whining (which I'm obviously tired of).
Another excellent talking point, IMO, is using the amount of money our government currently spends, per person, on healthcare, and the total amount of money spent, per person, on healthcare.
If you compare quality of service of the US to FRANCE, we are FAR below in all categories except for one (ecology...but just barely), yet, we pay more for that poorer service.
You seem to be revising what really happened, so her are the posts.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Tort reform is a really stupid idea, anyway. As far as driving down costs of medicine, I think the best thing we could do is make public college free. Then doctors wouldn't accumulate such ridiculous student loans.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothing is free.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Cool, let's all just make vague unhelpful cliche statements like that instead of having a comprehensive discussion of the issue.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The idea that school could be free, would just lead to lower quality schools, and lower quality doctors. Public schools are my example.
Originally posted by King Kandy
No. Other countries use free public college and are doing fine.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm skeptical about that. What can you give to back that up?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I still haven't seen anything to support this. Also, I would like doctors to do better then fine.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, I don't really see what i'm supposed to be supporting... pretty much every country in Europe uses that system, and I don't think the public colleges there are ranked any worse (I certainly haven't heard they were particularly bad). And the WHO ranks pretty much every European health care system better than the US's, so I don't really consider that even in the argument.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, that is your opinion. In no way have you established that it is fact.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Fact, what? You're the one who claimed that free public college would lead to a decline in health quality, when I have shown that it is actually seemingly the opposite according to WHO rankings. How about you back up your own theory, especially since we have high opinion of free german colleges from other poster who actually attended one.
I said tort reform is what is needed. You are the person who claimed that free schools would fix health care better then tort reform. You then made the claim that “Other countries use free public college and are doing fine.”. Ok, provide me supporting information that shows that free public college in other countries cut costs in heath care. I think you can’t do that, and are just trying to get out of it by redirecting the responsibility back to me. It is not going to work.
I agree with Shaky...nothing is free...and why do WE have to adopt the systems of Europeans?
Does that mean we should throw out the senate and the President and get Prime Minister with House of Commons?
HELL EFFEN NO!
What works for them does not equal works for me.
(sorry-that should be "us" and not "me"...oh well, you guys know I'm a greedy bastard)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison I said tort reform is what is needed. You are the person who claimed that free schools would fix health care better then tort reform. You then made the claim that “Other countries use free public college and are doing fine.”. Ok, provide me supporting information that shows that free public college in other countries cut costs in heath care. I think you can’t do that, and are just trying to get out of it by redirecting the responsibility back to me. It is not going to work.
dadudemon-
1. Other than stockholders (obviously), exactly to whom is the insurance industry accountable in any real way.
2. How can an industry exempt from antitrust laws and openly engaging in anti-competitive practices against smaller competitors and non-profits have competition? How can an industry that meets, colludes, and obviously fixes prices be competitive?
3. I direct you to the case if CIGNA conspiring with doctors to cover up a woman's lung cancer in order to milk as much money from her as possible before rescinding her policy and dropping her. Or the case of a CIGNA gastroenterologist somehow "missing" a massive tumor during a colonoscopy and giving the patient the run around until she switched insurance companies and ended up dying of colorectal cancer and despite damning evidence that doctors and the insurance company were colluding, the court decided that there was no criminal case and that the woman's family was only entitled to $2,000 in civil penalties. That last woman was my mom, btw.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I said tort reform is what is needed. You are the person who claimed that free schools would fix health care better then tort reform. You then made the claim that “Other countries use free public college and are doing fine.”. Ok, provide me supporting information that shows that free public college in other countries cut costs in heath care. I think you can’t do that, and are just trying to get out of it by redirecting the responsibility back to me. It is not going to work.
I personally feel college price reduction would be the best option, based on the opinions of most doctors i'm friends with. But one thing I can tell, is that it definitely won't hurt health care quality as countries with free college actually have better health care, statistically.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I SPECULATED that free public college would reduce prices better than tort reform (that's why I said "I think" in the first post). Neither you nor I had any statistics to back our claims up. But, I wanted to see your reasoning that free public college results in health care quality decline, when that claim has pretty much been discredited.I personally feel college price reduction would be the best option, based on the opinions of most doctors i'm friends with. But one thing I can tell, is that it definitely won't hurt health care quality as countries with free college actually have better health care, statistically.
Speculation is fine, but you keep making these absolute statements. Just like when you say, "free public college results in health care quality decline, when that claim has pretty much been discredited". Is this just your opinion? Are you speculating again?
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonActually, I do have a colonoscopy tomorrow (I'm serious). My family had to pay out of pocket when I was on their insurance because they refused to cover it due to how young I was even with my mother dying being an indication of earlier testing. Now that I have Kaiser, a non-profit, I only pay 5 bucks for all my prescriptions and get to have 10 feet of hose shoved up my ass for free! I'll be sure to toast you with each glass of polyethylene glycol I have to drink tonight.
A Proctologist could help. jk
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Actually, I do have a colonoscopy tomorrow (I'm serious). My family had to pay out of pocket when I was on their insurance because they refused to cover it due to how young I was even with my mother dying being an indication of earlier testing. Now that I have Kaiser, a non-profit, I only pay 5 bucks for all my prescriptions and get to have 10 feet of hose shoved up my ass for free! I'll be sure to toast you with each glass of polyethylene glycol I have to drink tonight.
Cleansing is not fun. 🙁 My insurance covered it, and I'm too young. However, I would imagine that I pay a lot more for insurance then you do.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Just remember the Libertarian code people! Wanting free healthcare is nothing but stealing from hard working people, illegal downloading is just part of the quest for freedom.Do you really want some company deciding who is fit to live and die?
No, but i would like the freedom to choose my Doctors. I don't want to have to pay a fee because i happen to have a decent insurance and don't want to change to the gomments healthcare plan. Forcing someone to change or pay is detestable.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
I agree with Shaky...nothing is free...and why do WE have to adopt the systems of Europeans?Does that mean we should throw out the senate and the President and get Prime Minister with House of Commons?
HELL EFFEN NO!
What works for them does not equal works for me.
(sorry-that should be "us" and not "me"...oh well, you guys know I'm a greedy bastard)
The fact is that the US system is by far the worst health care system of any first world nation. Your people are denied cover or even outright lack it, which is an atrocious thing considering you also pay more on average than anyone else. You don't need to adopt any of the European Systems, but what is clear is that you have to change yours, it is inhumane and expensive.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Speculation is fine, but you keep making these absolute statements. Just like when you say, "free public college results in health care quality decline, when that claim has pretty much been discredited". Is this just your opinion? Are you speculating again?