BW/Leo Vs. Charlotte/Gundam

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Food for thought:

Post more.

😂

don't you have your own match to be worrying about . . . aka: butt out. 😐

and psi-cloaked?? i have the SAME level of psionic power and cosmic awareness, not to mention micrscopic vision and about a thousand other extra-sensory abilities to use. no one is turning anyone on our team into an invalid. 😂 anything you can do, i can do. only faster. even if i didn't WANT to instantly steal your speed, i could easily stalemate you long enough telepathically to steal it, or have a dupe steal it. even my MIND functions at a FAR faster rate than your guys'. trying to actually get into any sort of tp war with me would likely end very badly for you guys. like 2 swords men battling, only one of them is a million times faster than the other one. 😬

besides (something i've neglected to mention) -- please explain and prove to the judges how anyone on your team would even FIND me moving at the speeds i enter the match. flash can and HAS outrun telepathy (jonnz lost tp contact with flash who simply accelerated and outran the tp connection -- scan available on request) in the past. so you can't see me, and can't use your mind to sense me. perhaps you have other sensory abilities that would allow you to find me, but that would take time -- by THAT time, all your speed is long gone and you're dead.

it's irrelevent though -- at the speed my mind is working, my cosmic awareness and sensory abilities and my OWN vast psi-powers, would locate you instantly and your speed would be gone before you could even enter into a psi-battle with me.

as regards your tk freezing (again, something i neglected to mention) -- the very unfortunate part for you is that threnody's MIND is still functioning in that scan. even if by some miracle someone thought you could somehow get the drop on us and freeze us telekinetically (and the only way to ensure they did that was how??? by using tk to freeze not just us, but the ENTIRE PLANET which is btw, TWICE as large as the EARTH!!) my MIND still functions at hyperspeeds. the instant you attack us with your minds (if anyone actually believes you can tk freeze a planet TWICE as large as the whole earth!) we'd know where you were and that's all the info i need to steal your speed and shut off your powers -- or i could just have vulcan do that. or i mess with the neuronal speed of your brains via my own tp while waging psi-combat:

http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spedbraishiftpm0.jpg

kinda hard to do anything when i've altered the speeds in your mind. but still, stealing it is easiest and the most sure-fire way to a win.

your prep is so convoluted that i STILL don't quite understand it all. the only way you have of trapping us and getting any of your other attacks to work is by tk freezing a planet twice as large as the earth. 😐 the devices you are making, the size of everything, the ANTI-METAL that would destroy all your tech??

it's too much, and we're too fast.

no, all of that was insinuations on your part, i never mentioned holding any planets in telekinetic force.

what a telepathic cloak is in a nutshell is the ability to be in effect undetectable. like an opaque substance in blackness, the signals that tell your brain's we are there don't make it there so you are oblivious to us even if we are standing in front of you.

we have three top notch psychics and the power of nate grey backing it and all of them individually can perform psi-cloaks so together it's elementary.

and psychic energy is omni directional, unless directed towards an individual thats why when the average telekinetic mutant's power awakens objects all over the room starts to fly about.
prefessor xavier has performed planet wide mind scans before(and the trio of psychics can back him) so finding a moving needle in a hey stack isn't as hard as it seems.

and that clown that you have getting downed by flash is by no means
legion level, let alone legion + exodus + xavier + nate' power backing synced.

you can be as fast as you want to be but it won't matter if you don't know we are there. then it's curtains for your team.

Charlotte's post #6 of 8

Explained when? Inetron never was shown to be>>>> adamantium on panel, AFAIR. Sentry has bent and broken one of Wolverine's claws- Validus failed to break out of Inetron cage. Also there's primary and secondary adamantium- secondary being a little bit more than glorified steel and I easily do believe it was destroyed by anti-metal.
Uru has resisted anti-metal on panel (due to structure and not enchantments), and it's also replicable. Not to mention we (staying NOT on that surface, but in the middle of a planet- we're not coming to the surface, except maybe Apollo- who was given more than enough powers to defend himself- telekinetic shields, gravity shields, electromagnetic shields, negating their energy or more likely redirecting it (having one Terminatrix dupe on energy monitoring duty that's the most plausible defence, so the energy will be coming only in one direction, towards you)- anything to stop small vibration frequency which is anyways<<speed of light (tourney cap speed) which is plausibly reachable since we CAN use powers of multiple indiividuals. Belova hasn't shown upper limits in what she's copied. As for never mentioning using the strength of opponents- Warbird was weaker than Senrty, she's barely class 100, so stacking strength to the one of Supes' cheap ripoff was uunsignificant.

Flash thought too fast for someone to read his thoughts- well, that doesn't even matter as we won't be trying to read his thougths- we'll be killing him.
As for putting up omnidirectional stasis field...
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7769/66694966fm4.jpg
Here it's stated, than all-out Nate has enough TK to extinguish stars- AKA normal sized stars- with little effort. He confirms that by overloading the Great Beast Tundra, who is a skyfather level being capable on feeding on stars\planets to the point of big kaboom.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8496/xman04007oj6.jpg
Nate's powers tripled and backed up by Legion and Exodus, whose powersets are amped= have fun being surrounded in stasis field.

As for kinetic energy steal- once again, you're trying to INTERRUPT the action, that was started in prep and is carried out by at least three top level energy manipulators vs your two (Savitar and Vulcan). Throw that scan around all you wish- you're not outracing anything here, as you're interrupting the action started in prep. Repolarising your assault on our energy so that energy will come towards us, negating the sucking, is child's play. Show me Savitar beating another top-notch kinetic energy manipulator and we'll play. From what I know, never happened. Especially the one who uses kinetic energy to manipulate time itself.
The only time Flash (in the state you've describing- totally connected to the Speedforce, outracing teleportation and blah-blah-blah) went against somebody with control over time among his abilites (Zom, and Zom has nothing on New Son in the regard of controlling time- he isn't capable on existing totally outside of timeframe), he got pwned and pwned really hard.
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z7un9.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z8hb9.jpg
So even Flash knows that it's silly to try and outrace time manipulator.

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xman014p114je.jpg
That's the thing about psionically eracing our presence Gundam's talking about. You have cosmic awareness- not that it's matters as spying during prep isn't allowed- and we have one themselves, from 3 different sources.

More on your speed problem.
http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page08lj8.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2200page09bc6.jpg

Flashes state that stealing Zoom's speed fails, failed and will fail by simple reason- he glides along the timestream while connected to the point outside of it. You may ask- "that half-Russian girl must have gone crazy... how is Zoom thing connected to the New Son?".

Let's explain that. Zoom got his powers by being connected to the wormhole outside of our universe.
http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gambitunlimited11999200uy9.jpg
New Son tried to use his absolute control over kinetic energy to turn the flow of the time backwards and redo the events he has caused by destroying his universe's Earth. He fails and creates wormhole that allows him to travel the multiverse. Zoom can't travel backwards at all. As for moving forward the timestream- it's pretty easy, according to New Son, as when Gambit was granted New Son's powers (ZERO experience of them ,while we have ALL) he time-jumped from Victorian England into present MU effortlessly.
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gambitunlimited11999200ay3.jpg
Result of New Son's actions- a wormhole, a breach in the multiversal spiral.
The guy has created the base (Crystal Cathedral) outside the flow of time and space, using his kinetic energy control. "A hideaway outside of time and space"

He can actually "freeze" other beings in time by cutting them off any aspect of kinetic energy, including the timestream.
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anngambitv10022rougheril3.jpg
http://img393.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anngambitv10023roughercf0.jpg

So stealing the speed of someone with that power and experience is close to attempts of stealing Zoom's speed which has been proven utter failure. New Son's powerset is assisted by Vulcan's and Winter's one (and Winter's template is another one that I have and you never downloaded) and if anything New Son's overall power over timestream is>>>Zoom.

And now to the point of TP. AKA a few simple facts.
Telepathic communication doesn't equal offensive telepathy.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/17.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/18.jpg

Moving faster than light doesn't instantly makes one faster than thought. OK, he can run too fast for stable TP connection being possible, but I think that the real reason was him speeding up his thought processes. That was brought in that SS vs Flash thread, I know, but never was analysed properly. You presented "cutting off TP communication" as a counter for the fight. Communicating and attacking are two different things. I can show you the same Martian's astral projection beating up Flash- so speed clearly isn't an issue when it comes to offensive TP.
http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/?action=view&current=Jimscomics103.jpg
A psionic projection slaps Flash into the face.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic218.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic219.jpg
Flash going on the incredible speeds doesn't interrupt TP link. It's all relative and one instance doesn't mean Flash (or Savitar in that case) is immune to TP- I'm talking about Flash since you're using him as a benchmark.

What's more, those two events even doesn't actually contradict. One can move too fast for a telepath to "grab hold" on his thoughts- but when the aim isn't psi-link but a mindfry. You don't need to be Flash to make it impossible for telepaths to grab your conscious thoughts. Well, Flash (Wally) himself is afraid of mindfry. Just because he moves too fast for his thoughts to be decyphered means close to nothing. Telepathy is instant and its speed is certainly more than speed of light.
http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncxmenv137103rougheryd5.jpg
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nxm0900203oi1.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nxm09004oe6.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nxm09005ai0.jpg

I don't see Savitar faring well against mindblast on that level- not even with Vulcan's powerset. Than was unamped, unassisted (almost) Xavier.

Also you asked for more proof of planetary level stasis field other than on-panel power description?
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7060/xma45p03ob8.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5291/xma45p0506vf6.jpg
A Moon gets blasted into pieces with a TK blast. That display of power shows that "extinguishing the stars" level of TK isn't that impossible neither it's a hyperbole.

Now to the "outracing instanteous travel". Instanteous travel in it's essence is teleportation, and moving from point A into point B faster than someone manages to teleport there isn't the thing that makes it the end all speed feat. Though that was all explained a post above- "brushing the Speed Force" isn't end all be all thing and I won't be going over it again.

Thank for the good match, Leo. You certainly had me to do lots of research🙂

a little light on the vibranium "radiation"

A regular-sized iceberg was good enough to cancel out the vibration frequency of several of tons of anti-metal.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/...metalshield.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/...etalshield2.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/...etalshield3.jpg
Now, we have a mile of anti-metal vs 198 miles of other materials (and all our metallic stuff is made of alloy of Cap America's shield, Inetron and Uru) .
The relative percentage is even smaller than here, in iceberg's case- I'm not that stupid to commit suicide.

Captain America's shield material is actually really good as a shielding- seeing as Black Panther's suit of wakandan vibranium didn't get turned into nothingness.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/...etalshield4.jpg
The waves are also pretty slow, meaning we can redirect it from us in any manner we wish.

the thing about vibranium is that it doesn't "radiate" like plutonium 238 or uranium 235, it has a constant vibrational frequency that matches all frequencies of metallic substances causing them to vibrate to liquid.

but, they can be blocked by glacial ice (see above scan), a force field or more importantly the alloy making up captain america's shield will not only block but reflect the vibrations.

Working scans:
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/DarkCrawler90/antimetalshield.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/DarkCrawler90/antimetalshield2.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/DarkCrawler90/antimetalshield3.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/DarkCrawler90/antimetalshield4.jpg

just so's you don't think i'm being cheap, i'm telling you guys in advance that i can't post right now. i will try and slide i post in before the time limit though and rebut some of the points you have both raised. it may seem like i'm trying to sneak a last post in under the gun, but i just walked in from work and have to run back out. like i said, i'll try and get one more post in.

and thanks cdb. it has been an entertaining match. though i'm wondering if the scoring on this shouldn't be of the handicap variety . . . 😖hifty:

Light vs Thought:
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml

Light is much much faster than that, and considering that our team can go faster than that, I see no reason to believe that you can convincingly attack us with a PSI stop.

Astral BS
I also see no reason to believe any of the BS you guys sprout about resurrecting people in the astral plane and getting their powers. It has been said in the past matches and I truly feel like the entire list of judges have rightfully been ignoring it. Why? Because it makes no stinking sense. You do not have New Sun, no matter how much you wish you did. We do however have Savitar who is on Leo's team and an established speed force user. The speed stealing? You have no truly foundational counter for it at all.

Plan, huh?
Beyond that I am STILL at a loss for what you guys are planning. Leo has taken point because I was wondering what you guys were doing. You basically terraformed the planet with Anti Metal? and then uh...built tech? uzzah? No comprehende. Also, who ever gave you the specifics on how to create Inertron? I gave my team a covering, how did you end up with it?

Suns attack formation delta. Plan? Blow shit up
Beyond all this you have to realize our plan of attack trumps yours by a landslide. Savitar goes down there before you can think, react, or act. The suns are dropping into the planet, gravity is bringing them all together, and a hot toasty surprise is waiting for you. You cannot beat that. You cannot survive that. Especially in the resulting explosion that would occur (and for those who wonder about my spaceship, Brainiac 5 can create spaceships that go hyper lightspeed.) Really, it was not lazyness but the biggest explosion of an attack you have ever witnessed in tournament history. Cheap? Maybe. Effective? Always.

You cannot deny the fact. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be blown to pieces.

I'm really sorry Leo, and everyone. Had an unexpected weekend where I was not home or able to really get online...that and I didnt understand their prep 😂

😂

no problemmo. 😉

i'll second most of what bw said. when nate resurrected maddie, he did it UNCONSCIOUSLY. much the same way kyle made green lightning. resurrecting new son is a HUGE stretch -- especially given that maddie herself was a powerful psi so traces of her might be believeable. new son? why would he leave traces in the astral plane? and the source of zoom's power is time itself. the source of new son's powers is an x-gene. 😐

astral resurrection=dubious at best of new son. a point i neglected to mention as well -- even if you did resurrect him, he was INSANE. why wouldn't he just kill all your guys in prep? again, too much left up to chance, too dubious and too many things that can go wrong. 😬 in fact, so complex, that apparently gundam himself didn't know that for the whole thing to work, you needed to tk freeze the entire planet! 😂

again -- finding you wouldn't be an issue. you said you were cloaked telepathically. so? vulcan can and has both used, controlled AND shut-off tp abilities in the past. i wouldn't need my psi-guys to find you. you are EXPENDING tp energy to cloak yourself. vulcan would sense that energy and simply follow it. finding you would NOT be an issue.

as far as nate -- blowing up a small moon<<<<<<<tk freezing a planet twice the size of earth.

again -- no proof of adaptoid stacking (which limits you considerably because you are then forced to use only ONE psi-guy at a time and NOT vast combinations of people like you are inferring . . .) you do not have cap's shield material or uru. seriously. 😐 the adaptoid makes REPLICAS. not the real deal. besides, without enchantments, uru isn't really great -- it's been shattered with a co2 blast! 😂

nate extinguishing stars IS hyperbole. when he overloaded tundra, he did so with other-earthly energy. tundra is an earth god. it wasn't nate's power, it was the TYPE of power that tundra couldn't handle . . .

you keep assuming your energy manipulators can somehow manipulate kinetic energy in some way that will help you. first, you have NO examples of ANY of them doing anything with KE. second -- it wouldn't matter. you wouldn't be ABLE to access the KE as i would be preventing you from ACCESSING it in any way. and i could drain it faster than you could absorb it.

you still never proved how you would find me. your only reply is to tk freeze the whole planet using a character resurrected from the astral plane before i can find you. 😐 and even if you DID that, somehow . . . i am your equal in psi-power WITH A FASTER MIND. as soon as we entered psi-battle, i'd OWN you. my thoughts and attacks would be FAR faster than anything you could counter. and of course i'd then know EXACTLY where you are.

you say you build this huge void-sucking . . . thing, but with our tech guys and speed, we could easily negate that effect even if you could somehow use it. not to mention i could access blink anyway . . .

and having a bunch of suns falling on you might put a crimp in the whole freezing the planet thing . . . 😬

to even have a CHANCE in this match, you need a hundred things to first be believed, THEN to work AND you literally need to KILL all of us before we simply find you. if you don't kill all of us instantly, YOU die. NOTHING you've come up with (and really, what WAS your offense? void sucking, adhesive . . . thing, mindrape??) is capable of that as i've shown repeatedly we can easily counter or stalemate everything you've thrown at us.

i just need a nano-second to steal your speed and it's over.

and it is. 🙂

still have a couple posts left so . . .

just to reiterate -- inertron was broken by mon-el, superboy and validus. it would be disintegrated by that much anti-metal.

psi-combat: they die as i'm mentally far faster and would have direct access to their minds to screw with with the speed force. 🙂

their adhesive thingy . . . 😕 blink let's me teleport out or we blast out, i vibrate out or we . . . fly. 😐

tk feeze the whole planet?? with someone resurrected from the astral plane who even if you did believe it, would probably kill them all and ask questions later. but the real question is: THEN what? even FROZEN we would beat you. i would know where you are and steal your speed because my MIND remains free.

too complicated, too many things can go wrong and even if all things went RIGHT, you'd STILL lose.

good match guys. 🙂

An unholy alliance indeed...

This is done, yes? I'll vote later on tonight.

K, running commentary as I read through the match. Please note, early opinions may be subject to later evidence/arguments.

Simplicity vs. prep city

Seems to be charlotte's adaptive-ness vs. leo's speed. Was leaning toward charlotte initially. But duplicating speed force access seemed sketchy, and leo rightly called her out on it. Ironically, I don't see the suns as a huge issue. Durability + shielding + speed + absorption of pretty much every team means that they'd be effective but not fatal to most.

Hasn't addressed telepathy. Seems an edge to charlotte.

To answer leo's question, Apollo can survive in a sun, and has done so more than once. Though Cpt. Atom tweaked his body with some matter manip once to overload him. So he has a limit, but probably wouldn't reach it by passively existing in a sun.

Mile-deep anti-metal. Yeah, Iron Man hid behind a rock once, but it was a piece of AM that was maybe the size of a few bricks. A mile's worth of the stuff would be emanating like crazy. Not sure what I think about it yet, but charlotte's playing with fire here.

It hasn't been brought up, but what's stopping Black Box from ganking tech-info from charlotte's team, especially in characters who essentially store info like a computer database (like Angie, for example)?

Love the Void-negation Char, but Angie had direct access to Nate. I don't see the same trick working remotely, so I have to wonder how an undoubtedly faster team would allow you the opportunity to remove it.

But props on lending doubt to the un-copy-ability of the speed force with the GL scans. Noted.

Damnit. Forgot about Winter overloading Apollo. Way to remember stuff Charlotte. You're the only person who still surprises me with Authority stuff that I forget occasionally. Winter can be overloaded too, though. You overstated his powers a bit, impressive as they are.

Adaptoid's Mjolnir isn't enchanted Uru. Not really helping the cause when you're starting to look for ways of getting out of the anti-metal jam. Though gundam's example with the iceberg laid to rest some of my fears about it.

...k, getting toward the end. Summary time:

In matches like these, I work with what I can know, rather than what might be true. I'm actually able to accept most of both teams' prep, given their personel and meshes. But that the speed force might be copy-able, and was done so through vastly different means than charlotte would be employing, leads me to give it the 👇

...a mind-rape is entirely possible imo, which is the biggest edge gundam/char has, but amidst the chaos and blinding speed, I see it a concerted mind-assault as being harder to pull off, especially when its uncertain what kind of speeds they'd be operating at (arguing with your own kinetic energy users helped you charlotte, but I can't shake the feeling that Savitar and friends would be able to do a fair amount of kinetic draining even despite some countermeasures). Some of them are also going to be psi-defended to a point (though not all of them), whereas the only sure counter to the kinetic drain was copying the speed force, which like I said seems too suspect to me to seriously consider. So it was speed or psi, and I see more pros on the speed side.

I don't think the anti-metal is a concern, but the above couple paragraphs is what it boils down to for me. Others may see the same points and vote differently. Close match.

Vote: leo/Blair

Well here it goes. This is the type of match I like to read but is difficult to judge. Both plans need a leap of faith to some degree. I'll make this short because my vote came down to a few points. First the opening posts.

Leo/BW: Six suns left left me with a bit of a WTF moment. I wasn't buying 6 suns but 1 or 2 are within reason imo and all that's needed, for rell. And 1 or 2 is all that's needed. I was cool with everything else though.

Char/PG: I didn't believe everything they stated was absolutely proved but most was close enough imo.

Both teams left some things open to speculation and imagination but I was buying most of what they offered.

I'm thinking the tech and psi powers are close to even between the two teams. Nothing stood out a a great advantage but Char has the psi powers better explained and proved.

It seems Team Leo/BW had Team Char/PG backing up after the opening posts due to the speed stealing. Team Char/PG did a very good job countering and making a case for their team

So I'm left wondering if Team Leo/BW can detect Team Char/PG for the speed steal. I'm saying yes, they can. Team Char/PG has some scans to suggest they have powers over kinetic energy. But the Speed Force is a cosmic force which I've never seen trumped.

Team Char/PG had a very good and detailed plan but I just don't see a counter to the speed stealing. It has been stated that high end speedsters move faster than thought. I know Team Char/PG have speedsters but it came down to the Speed Force imo. I believe that Team Leo/BW will have the edge in the first picoseconds with the speed steal thus leaving them on the planet with the suns and no speed to deal with.

My vote is for team Leo/BW.....by a picosecond.

I do want to make a special note that Team Char/PG made a great case and I think their plan was very solid. I enjoyed the depth and versatility.

It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

Yes, an entire one and a half pages....you suffer for your art.

🙄

😛

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

"hokey nonsense." 😐

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

Originally posted by leonidas
"hokey nonsense." 😐

😛

bada-->conk<--leo