Originally posted by The Pict
Why? He recieved a beating from Juggernaut and was losing the test of strength they had. WWH had to bfr him and here he can't. Juggs ftw.
When was he losing the test of strength? From what I saw Cain's impacts did very little to Bruce. If we take WWHulk at his strongest and put him up against the Juggernaut perhaps things would have looked much different. Keep in mind, when WWHulk stopped Cain he was nowhere near as powerful as he was at the end of issue#5.
Logic dictates that if he was holding his own in a weaker state, and was able to stop the unstoppable Juggernaut, that it is plausible that he would have done far more than stopped him when he was powerful enough to destroy the eastern seaboard, and he was growing in power to boot.
Keeping in mind that Juggernaut has been beaten by less, this should be a cake walk for King Hulk excluding pis. Concerning Onslaught vs Juggernaut it wasn't PIS, Cain did have the Gem embedded in his chest at that time, and Onslaught ripped it out. This has all been stated and I will prove it.
Read this.
Ages ago, Cytorrak, one of a group of eight ancient mystic beings of incredible power called the Octessence, disagreed with his comrades over which of them was most powerful, and as a result each created a Totem, an item of incredible power that represented its creator. The first human to touch the item would be transformed into an Exemplar, a living embodiment of the power of one of the Octessence. In theory, when all eight Exemplars awakened, the eight would divide the Earth in the name of their creators, and would fight to solve the ages old disagreement. Over time, the Totems were mostly buried and lost. However, the Crimson Gem was still accessible in a temple in southeast Asia.
Cytorrak was eventually banished from Earth, but before leaving he created a guardian named Xorak to defend his Totem. Years later, the Ancient One approached the the Crimson Gem of Cytorrak and woke Xorak, even without touching it. The Ancient One overcame Xorak and banished him to the realm within the Gem.
Later still, a group of monks tried to access the power of the Gem and unleashed a violent aspect of Cytorrak that killed them all as well as surrounding villagers. Fortunately, two rival mages, Tar and Gomurr the Ancient, banded together to banish this aspect of Cytorrak to within the Gem.
Hundreds of years later, Cain Marko, serving alongside his step-brother Charles Xavier in Korea, came upon an ancient temple to Cytorrak, and discovered the Gem. He was thus transformed into the Juggernaut, and gifted with incredible strength and invulnerability. The invulnerability stemmed from a forcefield generated by the Gem's power, and even protected him from psychic assaults, as long as his helmet was on. Furthermore, Juggernaut's costume was in fact mystical, essentially representing him as a facsimile of dome-headed Cytorrak himself. It should be noted that later in his career. Marko was buried in the temple's collapse, but survived thanks to his new power, and took about ten years extricating himself.
After the Juggernaut's return and attack on the X-Men, Professor Xavier tried to find a cure for his step-brother, but was knocked out by an energy blast from his experimental machine. Doctor Strange advised the X-Men to find the original Gem and enter it to get the "prototype," a Gem within the Gem that they used to heal Xavier and then defeat the Juggernaut. Marko wanted to possess the prototype as well, but in touching it, both he and the Gem were sucked into the "Crimson Cosmos."
The Gem's power was not expended on Marko alone: In fact, Marko once had his partner Black Tom Cassidy touch it, and Tom was also transformed into a massive powerhouse. However, they were each at half-power, until Rogue was able to leech the power away from Tom, and Marko regained his full strength when he touched the Gem again. Hoping to maintain all the power for himself, Juggernaut heaved the stone into outer space. When the stone was unintentionally sent back to Earth by Nova, a Herald of Galactus, it conferred different powers upon Stevie, the boy who found it, including long-range communication, force blasts and animation of statues. Juggernaut was initially held at bay by Stevie, but eventually managed to reclaim his power source. This time, the Gem was mystically bonded to Marko and merged with his body. Marko now no longer needed his costume to have the full range of his powers, except for the immunity to telepathy granted by his helmet.
Marko knew next to nothing of Cytorrak for many years, until Xavier's dark side manifested itself as the massive psi Onslaught. Onslaught immediately understood the power of the Gem, and physically ripped it from the Juggernaut, leaving it on Xavier's desk as a paperweight. Somehow, Cain Marko was then trapped inside the dimension of Cytorrak. Inside, Marko fought against Spite, sister of D'Spayre, and an avatar of Cytorrak himself. With the help of Doctor Strange, Tar and Gomurr, Marko fought off his attackers and left the Gem, and regained the Juggernaut power again.
Much later, a second Crimson Gem of Cytorrak appeared, which Marko tried to use to amplify his abilities. However, it turned out that this second gem was a fake, which disrupted Marko's powers and caused him to become gravely ill. Only the intervention of the X-Men, who stole the fake Gem and delivered it to Black Tom, saved him from death.
The other seven Exemplars awakened and gathered at one point, but were ultimately defeated, and worldwide chaos avoided when Juggernaut's human side defeated Cytorrak's violent urges, having had many years to adjust to the transformation into an Exemplar and assert his own will. Though Juggernaut was subdued and nearly punished by the Exemplars, the Avengers eventually convinced the others to stop fighting, and the Octessence's world domination plans were ruined.
Recently, another Juggernaut attacked Marko and She-Hulk. It is unknown whether the boy who was the Juggernaut received his abilities from the Crimson Gem of Cytorrak, though he seemed to imply that Cytorrak was angry at Marko for disobeying him and granted the boy power to replace him.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
All that says is he had it in his chest during the Onslaught saga? How do we know this? Because Onslaught ripped it out. Why would Cain keep a football sized gem lodged in his sternum?
Because he figured that it would be the safest place on earth to place the gem (after all he is the Juggernaut) who could take it from him is what he thought.
All the same it is official, you or any other comic book reader including myself may not like it, but as far as Marvel is concerned, it is and was there. Onslaught mugged him, and forcibly took it from him.
Hulk then went on to beat Onslaught (iirc), which Juggernaut was unable to do.
Still wasn't the Onslaught vs Juggernaut the first Onslaught fight? I thought it was before he took a physical form?
Someone correct me if the following is wrong:
Onslaught was first mentioned when the Juggernaut crash-landed in Hoboken, New Jersey, having been hit hard enough by Onslaught to send him across the country, with a mental block on his brain, causing him to forget who or what Onslaught actually was (as he had learned Onslaught's identity). [5].Around this time, Nate Grey (X-Man), a powerful psychic from the Age of Apocalypse timeline, came to Earth. When Professor X attempted to scan Nate's mind, Nate accidentally pulled Xavier's astral form into the physical realm. As revealed later, this was the means by which the Onslaught entity learned how to manifest itself in a physical form.
If this is true then what Hulk did returned Onslaught to his original, Juggernaut-beating form that then required a sacrifice of the hero's, which thankfully Franklin was able to save them from.
Note that Onslaught was able to affect Juggernaut even though he still had his helmet on when he landed. Cytorrak mentioned in WWH😘-Men#3 that Cain was as strong as he thought he was. Both the Trion and 8th day incident showing Juggernaut's power level changing as different beings influenced/controlled Cain's mind.
Onslaught psyched (bad joke) Juggernaut out?
Originally posted by MindsetYes i agree if it wasn't a Hulk vs Marvel earth arc Cain would have won that fight but he wins here.
Hulk didn't beat Onslaugt, and WWH only slowed Juggs down, he never stopped him. Also WWH didn't hurt Juggs at all when he was back to full power, but Juggs was hurting him.
Originally posted by The Pict
Why? He recieved a beating from Juggernaut and was losing the test of strength they had. WWH had to bfr him and here he can't. Juggs ftw.
Saying hulk was receiving a beating from Juggernaut is just ridiculous.
Ill describe the order in which things happened. Juggernaut told hulk they had unfinished busness. Hulk turns and they start fighting. Juggernaut punches hulk and then stomps his head into the ground. The hulk then uses his to fist to hit juggernaut and then begins to squeeze juggernauts head. Juggernaut then headbuts the hulk to free himself and they then begin there pushing battle NOT a test of strength. Hulk is shown to be slowing the juggernaut but not stopping him( though it can be debated by some) he then moves out of the way and jugs crashes into the lake. Where did the hulk take a beating? The entire fight was only five hits with jugs getting 3 and hulk getting 2. How does that count as a beating? especially since jugs last hit was to break free of hulks grip. In a fight with no BFR jugs wins against almost anyone. In a fight with BFR hulk wins because he will gain the strength advantage needed to OVERPOWER juggernaut and BFR him.