Iron Man vs Jack Hawkmoor

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...then phase his brain into concrete

Jack can't phase people, I don't actually think he can phase himself, it seems that what he does is get the buildings to move around him to let him through (at least that would make some kind of sense given his powerset)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
punch him repeatedly with entire city blocks and skyscrapers

And if Tony were to be flying above the reach of these buildings?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
and increase his density to the point where he can throw down with heralds.

Had trouble against a big robot recently ... and in Dreamwar Superman only commented that he "felt" Jack's punch. Which herald level people are you talking about?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And also heal instantly from anything Tony does to him.

Instantly? no, eventually? sure but maybe not quick enough.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nice try, but IM's outmatched here. Written properly, he'd never even see Jack.

That's what his numerous scanning devices are for.

Iron Man can destroy a hell of a lot of the city which could cause a psychic backlash as well as take away Jack's weapons.

Jack has been known to have trouble with airborne threats before:

Just as well Apollo was there to save him - 😛

Iron Man's targeting is a hell of a lot better than Kaizen Gamorra's thugs, as is his firepower.

Just pointing out that this is not the stomp that a lot of you seem to presume and that Jack may not be winning at all.

As for big robot thing...the only "trouble" was in depowered state, and even then Jack managed well.

Flight? Two words- gravity control. Though he has more feats in department of repelling stuff, it's not impossible for him to do the reverse thing.

Scanners? In merged with the city state? Tony's tech is not THAT advanced.

More rebuttals with scans would be posted later.

He was only "depowered" in the sense that he couldn't connect properly with the city, he still had control of his own bodies powers including the density thing.

Not sure what gravity control stuff you're talking about so I can't comment on that.

Couple questions/comments here..

1.) As for that 'overload Tony with a city's electricity' attack. I am extremely hard pressed to see something like that working. Why? Because I don't see a city's electrical output as something > the upgraded/pure energy version of Living Laser [whom Tony easily absorbed in his entirety].

2.) Jack is a tangible being, correct? So what's stopping Tony from encasing him in a force-field, and simply removing him from the urban setting?

3.) As for phasing Tony into things, or whatever - Ghost tried something like that - it didn't work. See, Tony has safeguards against intangibility/phasing attacks.

Iron Man is the majority winner here, Jack isn't anywhere near herald level. He's quite overrated in my book.

Originally posted by Galan007
2.) Jack is a tangible being, correct? So what's stopping Tony from encasing him in a force-field, and simply removing him from the urban setting?

That wouldn't cut him off from his connection to the city.

And whenever he's teleporting into a city he's being "reborn" there, so I doubt that BFR would be a viable tactic.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He was only "depowered" in the sense that he couldn't connect properly with the city, he still had control of his own bodies powers including the density thing.

Not sure what gravity control stuff you're talking about so I can't comment on that.

He phased himself and Angie before into San Francisco, and also phased a group of soldiers into Paris. He can and has. He's also walked through walls in the White House and popped out of a building wall once when he was tracking down a speedster.

The gravity reference that CD made is that he can lessen or heighten the affects of gravity within a city on anything he chooses. He's used this to float through cities before. It's not quite flying, but it's the next best thing.

And Superman feeling a punch is more than enough for me to believe that Tony would do more than "feel" it. But that's non-canon. I was trying to refer to him using parts of the city as arms, though I phrased it poorly.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
He phased himself and Angie before into San Francisco, and also phased a group of soldiers into Paris. He can and has. He's also walked through walls in the White House and popped out of a building wall once when he was tracking down a speedster.

I still think the buildings/streets/whatever move around him, or the people he wants them to swallow, rather than him actually phasing anything ... unless he's ever been shown to pass through a non building/city related object ... like, for example, a person, tree or mountain (something not man made)

Originally posted by Scoobless
I still think the buildings/streets/whatever move around him, or the people he wants them to swallow, rather than him actually phasing anything ... unless he's ever been shown to pass through a non building/city related object ... like, for example, a person, tree or mountain (something not man made)

A Valid point..

Originally posted by DigiMark007
He phased himself and Angie before into San Francisco, and also phased a group of soldiers into Paris. He can and has. He's also walked through walls in the White House and popped out of a building wall once when he was tracking down a speedster.

The gravity reference that CD made is that he can lessen or heighten the affects of gravity within a city on anything he chooses. He's used this to float through cities before. It's not quite flying, but it's the next best thing.

And Superman feeling a punch is more than enough for me to believe that Tony would do more than "feel" it. But that's non-canon. I was trying to refer to him using parts of the city as arms, though I phrased it poorly.

That also was shown to have offensive purposes- like repelling a bunch of aliens in that scan:
http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=authorityv200409rougherdv0.jpg
It's theorised that "sucking" people underground takes a reverse version of that effect, so... unless Tony manages to get to geostationary orbit and launch a PIS Scrullbolt-destroying "omni-nuke" attack (PIS because it makes as much sence as some silver age "tech" and was out of blue and WTF in otherwise respectworth Tony arsenal)- and that would be kind of self-BFR, I don't think he takes that wast of majority. As long as they're technically in the city area, at least.

And it's as close to phasing as it can be.

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=authorityv200203roughersh9.jpg
The explosive devise etc was absolutely nullified. No breakout happened.

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c0410uv5.jpg
Those guys didn't break out of trap as well.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I still think the buildings/streets/whatever move around him, or the people he wants them to swallow, rather than him actually phasing anything ... unless he's ever been shown to pass through a non building/city related object ... like, for example, a person, tree or mountain (something not man made)

Fair point, but all the examples I mentioned seem like phasing to me. The wall didn't move in the White House, for example. He just walked through it.

The scans Charlotte showed seem to confirm that even if it isn't phasing in the strictest sense (which I still maintain that he can do based on the examples I mentioned) it has the same affect.